How we deal with racism and hate speech on Wrong Planet

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Why is APOM thinking of leaving?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=389905&start=0#p8592396

Specifically his response to 3.

I think there's a difference between saying someone's exhibiting racism and actually calling them a racist.

I always tell myself that were I a father I would accept it if my daughter or son fell in love with someone from any race. The moment your decisions are based on race, racism is evident. Growing up in South Africa with its old regime's obsession with race classification, gave me a unique perspective. I've seen how hurtful it was. So I can understand and support Alex's interpretation of the rules, but with reservations. And certainly calling out anyone on perceived racism need be accompanied by suitable evidence to back up your claim. Otherwise its a free for all.

It's always better to ask questions before jumping to conclusions in my view. Personally I hardly notice someone's race people are people, my own children are mixed race and dark- skinned with curly lovely hair. it's a sort of racism for people to continually spout on about how not racist they are. I don't even notice the different shades anymore. Does beating on your chest proclaiming that you are not racist definitely mean that you see all people equally? Not necessarily.

People should tread lightly with racism accusations. To me, it's on the same level as accusing someone of theft. A very serious accusation. Though the way it gets thrown around these days, it's lost a lot of that gravitas. But to me, I would use it with the same level of care I would for accusing someone of theft.

I wasn't sure if I should even respond to this because I don't really know what prompted all of this in the first place. This all happened in a time where I wasn't on this site. That said, the things I'm going to say aren't based in anything that has or hasn't happened here. My words are only going to try to reflect my own thoughts on this. Nothing more.

I think telling people not to become defensive sounds borderline ableist, hell, maybe even full blown ableist. This is ultimately a forum for autistic people. Sure family, friends, whatever's of autistic people are welcome here and post. Now correct me if I'm incorrect here, but aren't the majority of the people posting here on the spectrum? I'm sure you've read the dsm criteria, I won't bother to post it, but it does talk a bit about social difficulties. It's not uncommon for those of us on the spectrum to have a history of our thoughts, feelings, and ideas, not matching up perfectly with our words and to be blunt, we can come across as accidental a holes sometimes. Because of this, it can be triggering when people jump your sh** for saying something you didn't mean in the way it was taken. Telling someone to not get defensive is like telling someone in a wheelchair to just get up and walk it off. Nice in theory, but it's not gonna happen.

Further, saying it's okay to just go and be all well it is racist so you are a racist, only burns bridges. If you want to drive people away, that's a great route to take. Personally, I'd try to use it as a teaching moment and try to explain (hopefully with tact and decency) why something was seen, perceived, whatever as a racist statement. It's been my experience when you jump people's sh** it gets you nowhere with them because they get put on the defensive and at that point any productive communication is effectively ended. a chance to actually help someone learn and grow has just been destroyed. I think that's sad.

I'm a shrug it off person. Hell, I'm Flea of the chill because someone once told me if I were any more calm I'd be dead If someone called me a racist I wouldn't care, and apparently you wouldn't either, but that doesn't mean everyone else is like that. That word packs a helluva punch. I don think think it should be thrown around lightly, especially when dealing with people on the spectrum who might genuinely have no idea of what they said wrong in the first place. I think that's cruel.

Im not saying tolerate hate speech. I'm just saying, maybe their is a better way that takes into account the fact that we are a largely neurodiverse bunch.

As bad as the stuff about racism is, the banning of this word:

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/thug

Is the worst. It is extremely fringe today to see that used in a racial slur way. Context matters, and you can see all the familiar contexts in which that word is used. It's not a word we can just replace with another either, as it's a catch all for these behaviours that we don't afaik have a word with which to perform the same function, because why would we, when we already have the word for the job, in widespread use and understanding, right there.

EDIT: Some of you may have seen this post in it's original form of me accusing of post deletion. That was my bad. I posted it in the wrong place, so it's also in the making WP better thread. Sorry about that!

Thank you, FleaoftheChill. You have said again, in a different way, what I have been trying to say for several months now.

Autists have, by definition, impaired communications and social skills. Regardless of what some of us may have learned, not everyone is able to meet or understand the social interactions, what words mean, what they infer, etc.

We can't expect every autist to be able to phrase things nicely.

And some people have yet to be heard. I hear Drake who has a point about bias and about communication and it is a valid point. You don't have to agree with him politically for his views to be taken seriously.

Alex, I do not know you. From your recent posts I detect (and I could be wrong) some communication impairments especially listening and understand what others say. I say this as a description, not an indictment. You cannot expect everyone to cope as well as you do, apparently, with criticism. If you read the Haven over the years you will see many of our posters struggling with feeling unloved, unappreciated, and alone.

Alex, you have posted recently that you are not a moderator and you are posting as a person. I understand this.

Alex, I would recommend that you assign the moderators quickly and then let them come up with a list that they can run by you. Mods can run a variety of proposed rules by the active membership. It is important to get feedback from many people, because none of us knows everything or can think of everything.

I want to get involved with this but I would feel as though I am banging my head against a brick wall.

There is only so much energy in me and I have decided not to spend it in this thread.

A complete waste of time.

What bothers me almost as much as overt expressions of racism is the apparent effort to defining the word "racism" so narrowly in The Rules that people can post the meanest, most hurtful things against people of other races, and still not technically be in violation of The Rules.

I already do, and I've been at this about 24 hours, if that.

My sympathies to all those who've been engaged for longer, fighting what is essentially a battle for the forum's soul and survival that I didn't even know about before. I only found out because the forum got much faster and I came in here to express gratitude.

And at the same time banning words from the lexicon of WP, no matter how benign their use.

It could be worse ... there are websites that have banned topics of politics, religion, sex, and sexuality where even mentioning preference for a particular candidate is enough to earn a perma-ban.

And that is why I am here and not there.

You can actually discuss weighty things here.

Or you can tell some of the best jokes here...