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Thomas1138
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06 May 2008, 2:40 pm

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I not saying its a birthright but why should one year before have less requirements the plop this untested unproven system


Taking that statement to its logical conclusion, education will remain unchanged from now to forever because of some mistaken notion of fairness.



Maxrebo
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06 May 2008, 5:04 pm

I not saying its not fair but education broken and No child left behind is not the answer and I am not saying that I know what its is, now did Aristotle make alexander do something ridulous before he could become the gretest general I think not. what does this portfolio system teach children or help them nothing its defintly not gonna drag rhode island out of the pit its in and no I dont care what you think but maybe this will help you understand its not that the students are lazy so their gonna complain about but its because their scared and even the teachers dont like even senior teachers like one that have been their for years do you understand how its broken I not saying its because its not fair but what did you we do to desearve things if your so quick to defend it well you haven't expericenced it has a student or a teacher its a nightmare for us both. So stop trying to trivalize with the typical adult excuse of lowering it worth or warped sense of fairness when you dont understand the situation No child behind was built by republicans who love big buisness it was built with help from people from hungtington learning center which is buisness and their the only ones benfiting from this.


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Thomas1138
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06 May 2008, 6:22 pm

Okay, we've long since established that your conplaints HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH NCLB. So please stop bringing it up. And don't even start to bring some scary Big Business nonsense into the conversation because the most problematic group in fixing education is the teachers' unions.

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now did Aristotle make alexander do something ridulous before he could become the gretest general I think not.


Yeah I do. In fact, I doubt Aristotle (being a philospher) taught Alexander much of anything that was directly about being a great general.



kraken
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11 May 2008, 6:24 pm

I did not begin teaching until after NCLB was in place, but I was almost finished with my undergraduate studies in 2001, so my capacity for comparison is limited. However, I can say that NCLB is allowing a very large number of students to graduate from high school and enter college with only a very minimal capacity for the analytical thinking, coherent writing, and mathematical competency. This filters into undergraduate courses in some very ugly ways and leaves a lot of my students confused as to why they are unable to 'succeed' as they had in high school. Success, of course, refers to the grade they receive, rather than the process of mastering the material. NCLB may or may not be substantively more or less successful than previous educational efforts, but it is not what I'd call successful.



A350XWB
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11 May 2008, 8:00 pm

Then, do the current presidential candidates have any plans to repeal NCLB?


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MomofTom
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11 May 2008, 8:21 pm

Thomas1138 wrote:
Okay question:

Do you think it's a good idea for doctors (even if they graduate with honors) to have to pass a test before getting their license? How about lawyers, teachers, accountants, etc.. All these professions require their practitioners to pass a cold-hearted test before they let people practice. They don't care what letter grade you received in college or whether they did or didn't teach it to you.

If a potential doctor had the gall to whine to me that he should be allowed to cut me up because his grade-inflated classes said that he was an A student but a cold-hearted test said that he wasn't up to snuff, I'd laugh in his face and certainly never allow him to practice medicine on me.

What makes you so special that you got a diploma despite not being able to pass a test proving that you had mastered enough material to deserve it?


Very interesting analogy. In a perfect education system, I could see this happening however there never seems to be enough time in the classroom to achieve all that needs to be taught. There are other fundamental changes to be implemented....like keeping the state's Department of Treasury out of state assessments. :roll:


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kraken
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11 May 2008, 8:33 pm

MomofTom wrote:
Thomas1138 wrote:
Okay question:

Do you think it's a good idea for doctors (even if they graduate with honors) to have to pass a test before getting their license? How about lawyers, teachers, accountants, etc.. All these professions require their practitioners to pass a cold-hearted test before they let people practice. They don't care what letter grade you received in college or whether they did or didn't teach it to you.

If a potential doctor had the gall to whine to me that he should be allowed to cut me up because his grade-inflated classes said that he was an A student but a cold-hearted test said that he wasn't up to snuff, I'd laugh in his face and certainly never allow him to practice medicine on me.

What makes you so special that you got a diploma despite not being able to pass a test proving that you had mastered enough material to deserve it?


Very interesting analogy. In a perfect education system, I could see this happening however there never seems to be enough time in the classroom to achieve all that needs to be taught. There are other fundamental changes to be implemented....like keeping the state's Department of Treasury out of state assessments. :roll:



A key difference, however, is the test design. Among true professions, the standards for passing are determined by experts within the field. That is, doctors determine what standards an individual must meet in order to be considered a doctor. The same is true of lawyers and academic faculty. Assessment tends to include much more nuanced and exacting criteria than any standardized test I have ever encountered.



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