Course Requirements are KILLING ME!

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My first class on my return to college begins Tuesday the 25th. I was in calculus in high school, but dropped out before graduating, didn't try to enter college until I was 23, so was required to take the COMPASS and was one question away in the math portion of being cleared of having to take remedial classes. Ugh. So, if I had stayed in high school, I could have taken my AP test at the semester's end, gained college credit, and started at either linear algebra or calculus II, depending on the department requirements.

I know that by not passing the math portion of the COMPASS test, it does show that I need some brushing up and dusting off before continuing my studies, but before even entering college algebra, I am stuck in intermediate algebra for a full term. It's doubtful that college algebra will be offered during the 3-week mini term over the holidays given the technical nature of the class, so not until spring will I be able to start on the path of standard college math, yet... get this -- in order to catch up to where I should have started, on top of trudging through intermediate algebra and college algebra, I also have to take trigonometry and pre-cal before I can even enter calculus. Each of those classes are a full semester in length, putting me very far behind in math before I have to transfer to a university to complete my undergraduate degree in ENGINEERING. Ha ha...By the time I transfer, I will have accumulated hours completing sophomore year, though will be technically in my freshman year of math toward a B.S.

The sequence of math courses ahead of me:

Intermediate Algebra
College Algebra
Trigonometry
Pre-Calculus
Calculus
Linear Algebra
Calculus II
Differential Equations
Calculus III

And somehow I have to manage to pull this off within 2 years. This post is just to vent my frustrations. They should offer half-term courses, even with high-level mathematics. I would work my butt off to get an A in the class regardless, but until I hit calculus, I will be slowly wading through water, probably getting bored and losing all interest in school. Yes, one class can do as much to my psychological state, which in turn will cause me restlessness through the duration of the process. But honestly, I suppose these classes are still working in double-time as compared to the ones in high-school which required a full year to complete a textbook. Even if I had scored better on the COMPASS, I would've only bypassed remedial, having to start at college algebra, which is adjacent the bottom rung, not much of a leap. It all boils down to having ruined my whole academic career by obtaining a GED. But a teacher had aggressively harassed me, which caused much duress that they school ignored. I was too traumatized to return...an aspie mistake --avoiding uncomfortable situations.

Don't mind me. I'm anxious and bittchy.

You didn't ruin your academic career by getting a GED. What's in the past is in the past; you did what you felt you had to do at the time, there's nothing wrong with that.

Does your school offer summer classes? Are you able to take some of those math courses at the same time? That way you may still be able to cram all those classes within the allotted time. Is 2 years the absolute maximum limit allowed by your school prior to transferring, or just what is considered the normative time?

Yeah, you'll probably have to work harder to get all those courses completed than if you had done better on the COMPASS test, but if you managed up to calculus in high school, then perhaps all the stuff prior to calculus will come back to you eventually, and you may be able to breeze through those courses. That'll allow you to concentrate more on the new material in your other courses.

Some things just don't work out precisely the way one wants... but I don't think you're screwed. If you need to, ask an academic counselor for help in planning out your coursework over the next 2 years, so that you have a realistic plan on how to complete everything you need. Good luck on your return to school!

During the summer semester, I plan to max out on courses, including math, so that I can catch-up. I won't have a problem in the courses before entering calculus, because I know it will come back to me quickly. That's why I wish they offered them half-semester, so that I wouldn't have to spend so long on each one, in a class with others who have never taken an equivalent course and who struggle in math, which most Americans do because of our poor way of teaching. Slow moving classes grate on my nerves, making me restless.

Anyway, it is not allowed to take any at the same time as another. They are a sequential set that are to be taken back to back, one being the prerequisite for the next. The problem that I'm facing is that it would take me at least another year to complete all of my math requirements to transfer and enter the engineering program. I will be done with my core classes within two years, which means I will have to enroll for three semesters, only taking one course in each. I receive financial aid. One class per term still requires an investment of around $800 for tuition and textbooks. It's doubtful that I will continue to receive financial aid funds if I'm only taking one at a time, and I wouldn't have the means to pay otherwise. School will take me at least an extra year just because of math. There is credit hour and time restrictions placed on financial aid cases. I've already wasted one year from 2005-2006. And university definitely isn't the place I want to be left holding the tab, having to fork out somewhere around 7-10 grand per semester.

I'm being pessimistic, but really I'm just analysing the situation. It's my fault for picking a science degree rather than one in arts & humanties. I guess I could always rethink it and go with something that requires less math. And yes, talking to a counselor would be a good idea. I will have to wait for a month or two into the semester before the office slows down where I can be fit in without having to sit around for 3 or more hours to be seen. I just hope they can give me some answers. I'm at a loss when trying to plan within financial constraints. Hopefully their advice will be sound, because when I ask questions, I do it after not being able to come up with viable solutions myself, needing to be given a different perspective or offered suggestions to consider.

Thank you for your response. I just wish I could relax, but school is important and necessary in today's society. It's the key to my future. I can't screw up anymore, and there is such a specific outline that has to be followed. I used to think that college was a place where you could go and learn about any and everything, but instead you are forced into picking one thing (and then maybe something else to complement it to aid in your career pursuits), yet I just want knowledge; it's so rigid and structured and limiting, not what I had expected at all. I was delusional. I'm ranting.

Right now i'm taking required courses so I can graduate and transfer. The only classes that I really have to be scared of are the math classes. Thats my weakness.

Rant away! College was almost half a lifetime ago for me, and I can still rant about the things that frustrated me. I actually had a similar problem with math. My high school precalc teacher (back in the 80s there was no AP calc for college credit) didn't teach me precalc, but instead though linear algebra would be fun. So I spent senior year of high school studying matrices and eigenvectors, then couldn't pass the precalc placement test when I arrived at college because I didn't know the sigma notation for limits and other such details. So I was ahead and behind, at the same time. But I wasn't trying to be a math or engineering major, so this had less of an effect on me than your situation is having on you.

I hope the guidance counselor can help. Try talking to the math department as well, since one or more professors there may see your situation for what it is, and offer a workaround. For instance, I ended up being skipped a year of Japanese (my major and special interest at the time) since I had the ability and doing so solved a problem involving credit hours and such. The administration didn't like it, but the department was, per school regs, allowed to make such decisions on its own.

You might find some flexibility within the math department if you can get to talk to one or more of the math profs.

Wow. Where did you go to school? I live around Houston and my foreign language educational opportunities are slim. My junior college only offers French and Spanish (not even Latin!), which was the same for my high school. University of Houston offers a couple classes in Japanese, but definitely not as a major. There are French, German, Spanish, and Italian, German and Chinese Studies majors. It's very limited. I have a friend who lives in Portland, OR, and they even have Scandinavian language course options. I think I should consider relocating up north so that I have more variety in my choices (if not just in electives). But it's already hard enough trying to decide and keep firm in my choice of major. I only just decided on Engineering last week when I found out that my FAFSA had been approved (before that, I had planned to do business and fashion design sometime in the future). I did some research and thought that Urban & Environmental Planning seemed like an interesting job, but they prefer you to have an undergraduate degree in Civil Engineering before entering the program in graduate school. I would like to minor in Architecture. I guess I could skip the whole engineering bit and drop my idea of being an urban planner and do something like Landscape Architecture and try to be satisfied with that. It seems like such a small universe, though, so specialized.

I asked about where you majored in Japanese because I have a continued obsession with linguistics. I just don't know what I would do with such a degree except teach, unless I could be lucky enough to land a job as an interpreter, but other than possibly getting to travel the world, it seems unfulfilling to do until I'm in my 80's (retirement age is on the rise). I have to make one choice for the rest of my life. I want to blend art & science. That already limits my possibilities.

I remember speaking to an academic counselor during my first attempt at college. I was talking to him about my plans to major in music (which ended up being a big mistake as it was more about performance than theory/composition). We had a long conversation. Out of the blue he suggests that I should become a Medical Researcher and asks me if I've ever considered it. I found the statement to be odd, because we were talking about Music. It was also weird, because before entering college, I was debating whether to follow music or go in Pre-Med, which he was unaware. It's been a few years, and I still remember that conversation, probably because I don't know what could've prompted him to mention medical-science or even research, for that matter, which I'm fanatic about on any topic.

I'm just really confused. I have too many interests, and it's not a question of what I would be good at, just where I belong for the rest of my life. I've never even been able to find people similar to me to belong to in friendship, and career is a more crucial aspect in a person's life.

Oh yes, and the University of Houston also offers Classical Studies, which contains Latin and Greek. I guess these are all standard language options, just not diverse enough, in my opinion, for a university in one of the largest metropolitan areas. Should'vemoved to Portland when I turned 18 instead of TN. There are actually even more course and major options at public universities there than there are here.

I don't fit in with the art crowd, and I don't fit in with the science crowd...and I'm still not able to figure out a happy-medium. But isn't it a key component to Asperger's that you feel as if you don't belong? bah.

I have been advised before, though...if I were to take the advice, I guess my fit is in medical research. This still requires a lot of math, though, as well as dual-science education in both chemistry and biology, just like traditional pre-med, but with additional math. How nice it would have been to have a family that could financially assist me through college. I wonder how often that actually happens in real life. Very often I see adolescents taking it for granted, their free-ride; they slack off in school, only putting force minimal effort to get a passing grade; they usually live at home still and aren't required to pay rent, so if they have a part-time job, it's just to waste their paycheck on junk and partying.

We have to live with our limitations, though...I can't afford to become a surgeon, so medical school is out of the question, same as law school, though it requires fewer years. I am in the technical school bracket but don't want to be a mechanic or database administrator or electrician or cosmetologist or secretary (which most companies actually prefer someone have a bachelor's degree). After moving back to Texas, I got a job at Wal-Mart as a cashier. I worked alongside people who had bachelor's degrees, some who had been working there for 10+ years and had families to support. That depressed me.

still annoyingly ranting.

Sorry. I don't get the opportunity to speak often and never do forums, so my posting etiquette is poor.

I was just hoping that if I talked about all the things pent up in my head, maybe I could resolve some issues in order to relax. I over-think things. I've found that when I don't, I make careless mistakes that sometimes have dire consequences. It's made me more cautious and caused an addiction to planning...as well as formed acute anxiety issues.

Last edited by neopsytox on 23 Aug 2009, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rant away.

This has probably happened to more people than can count. When I went to junior college, I was put into remedial algebra too (at least I was allowed to take the 1 semester course rather than the 2 semester course). The problem was that I aced the course but barely passed the exit exam. Turns out I have a hard time with multiple choice math tests (in other words, I know the concepts but usually make a mistake on something that is not part of the original concept). This was determined when I was taking Calculus III.

I always wonder what would have happened if I had tried to avoid the lower requirement and register for MT126. The problem with junior colleges though is that advisors have to sign off as a way to control what happens. In a university, you could avoid the issue. It might have been worth a try however. Would have cut out 2 courses that I really did not need (and was obvious even to the professors.)

You should see if you can get to the registration system and try to get into the college algebra course. The worst that can happen is that you are either denied or waste a semester because you are in over your head

I know that the math department may have written indications that the series is to be taken sequentially, and that no two classes are to be taken simultaneously. However, something sounds fishy...

You have five classes listed for Calculus and above:
Calculus
Linear Algebra
Calculus II
Differential Equations
Calculus III

I am 100% certain that the math department is or should be set up so that students can complete freshman calculus through multivariable calculus (typically Calc III stuff) plus linear algebra and differential equations within 2 years. Aren't you on a semester system? How can there be 5 classes to be fit into 4 semesters, with no two classes taken simultaneously?? It doesn't seem quite right.

Anyway, if you meet with an academic advisor and/or math department person and explain the situation, they should be able to provide you with some kind of solution or workaround. I'm sure you aren't the first person to attend the school with a predicament like this, so there must be something possible.

As for your rant about college forcing you to pick one thing and yet wanting knowledge for its own sake: you may be ranting but you are correct. I tend to think community college is great for getting knowledge for its own sake. Four-year schools and graduate education are more for specializing, with additional levels of complexity and rigidity.

If I may ask, what's the name of the school?

I've been looking at course requirements for majors which include a sample plan of how to schedule your semesters on order to complete on time. Any math-related field shows Calculus as the first math class you take in your freshman year at college. When I look at the local university's schedule recommendation, it only shows Calculus, Calculus II, and Calculus III to be taken in sequence without diverting into Linear Algebra and Differential Equations, but at my community college (San Jacinto), the plan shows a requirement of taking all of the classes I listed above.

But, no...I think you are right about something that I overlooked. The last year, you may be able to take things as co-requisites according to the stated plan (even though the course description has them as prerequisites to one another). I know at the very least, in the last semester, it shows Differential Equations and Calculus III being taken at the same time if I remember correctly. I think only as a math or engineering major...oh, or computer science...are you required to take so many high-level math courses. Only in math and engineering is it recommended that you finish through calculus III by the end of your sophomore year before transferring to a university where you are required to submit a declaration of your major to the appropriate department. I guess they look to see that you have completed the minimum core (through Calc III in this case) before accepting you. Really, the fact that I'm at a community college for the first two years will already put me behind for my engineering major when it comes to prerequisites in classes that don't allow co-requisites. I remember facing this same issue when I briefly spent time a few years ago mapping out a plan if I were to be an art major. It may be a flaw in the descriptions & requirements listed specifically by my community college. I've looked at other schools which have you go from remedial intermediate algebra to trigonometry to calculus to calculus II or opt for linear algebra...it skips a lot of steps. I just made a poor choice for a 2-year school, but given where I live, its my only option.

I should probably speak to an adviser and just ask him to be straight with me concerning how much trouble this math thing will end up causing given where I'm having to start. He may suggest that I set my sights on a BA instead. If I could afford to transfer before my 2 years, I would go to a university that didn't require all of those in between courses, but in order to secure that all of my classes transfer, I have to obtain an AA in a certain major, which means I need to finish out my sophomore requirements at the community college. 66 credit hours. I guess it would be better...I wouldn't be grumbling so much if I had more certainty about what I was going to do with my life. In which case, wasting an extra year in school completing my math requirements wouldn't be an issue. Maybe the reason why at universities, you can bypass all the in between classes is because the instruction covers more grounds, so you can hop from Calculus to Calculus II without stopping in at Linear Algebra. It's like how my school offers College Physics and University Physics. If you are a math/science major, you take the university level course. If you are an arts major, you take College Physics.

I will figure something out. I think its the one remedial math that's really throwing me off the most, because it actually ends up putting me two semesters behind where I could be at if I wasn't required to take it, just starting at College Algebra. (yes, there is a logic in what I said). The semesters are divided into two major (spring and fall) and two minis (summer and the super-mini winter). As far as I can tell, only remedial classes are available in winter, so that leaves 3 semesters per year to take math classes. And as far as finishing in two years, most of the time, it takes 2 and a half if you are going full-time, though it honestly shouldn't. I still have the whole semester to decide if I want to really get a BS rather than a BA and pick a major to work toward. Like I said, this wouldn't be a problem if I picked one that is less math intensive. If I did enter the engineering program, it's likely that I would be the only one who started college below Calculus I math.

Thank you for telling me which school you're going to. The reason I asked was so that I can look up online course information...

You are right, two of the classes do not have to be taken strictly in series. Linear Algebra only requires Calc I, so you can take Calc II and Linear Algebra at the same time. The same goes for Differential Equations and Calc III.

What I didn't realize, however, is that classes are offered on a variety of different schedules. I thought that all the classes are semester-long. They aren't!! While some classes are offered on a semester-long basis, many are also available as more compressed versions, meaning more hours per week but only a few weeks per semester.

Specifically, I found out that most if not all of the 9 math classes you are required to take are offered as full-semester, first half-semester (8 week) or second half-semester (8 week) in the fall and spring. A similar split is found in the summer as well. So you aren't looking at 9 classes to cram into 6 terms (two semesters + summer per academic year). You have 9 classes to fit into 12 terms. This doesn't even include the 3-week minisession, and if I'm not mistaken, they offer math classes during that session also. All the info is under "Academic and Technical Programs" link, doing a "Course Search" for Fall 2009, Summer 2009 and 3-week Mini-term Math classes. Even though the summer is already past, it is a good indication of what is offered every summer, and Fall scheduling is usually not different from Spring except for Fall-specific vs. Spring-specific classes. You should still see an academic counselor to make sure all the scheduling will be ok because you will have to schedule all the other non-math requirements among all the math you have to take, but as I see it, you shouldn't have any fundamental problems making your schedule work out. You have nothing to worry about! Don't be too quick to throw in the towel. Yeah it's unfortunate that you're required to take all those extra remedial math classes, but as you mentioned they're designed so that you won't be rusty on math by the time the big calculus stuff comes around. Take them as your easy A, I suppose.

Good luck with school!!

Oh wow...I hadn't looked at my spring options, only summer and fall. Didn't even realize spring of last term was open to view, because it isn't if you are logged in and looking up classes through the search. In the fall, my campus doesn't offer part-term options for higher level mathematics, but during the spring there are many options. I guess I need to review this and make sure I time my classes appropriately per semester to benefit from the spring schedule. Thank you for pointing that out which made me go look it up. I feel much better now. That means during the winter I can take College Algebra and double-up on Trig and Pre-Calc in the Spring!! ! I will just need to make sure to rush and nab the spots before they fill. Linear Algebra is only taught in the fall and Differential Equations are in the fall and summer, so I will need to be creative when setting up my new 2-year plan of study.

Thank you again for the help and having the determination to do digging and ease my flustered mental state. Maybe the huge rash that's developed on half of my face will clear up now...that will make you a miracle-worker. School starts Tuesday...don't want to make the first impression that I'm sickly, despite the fact that I am...by my own undoing.

Oh, and its 9 classes to fit into 6 terms (if I don't utilize winter's mini-sessions). I will have to double-up to make it work...that's a whole lotta math. Probably won't use winter except for Algebra, because I doubt I could handle a class in 1/4 of the time...3 weeks isn't enough time to really absorb material...that spells burnout to me. I just hope extending it to 5 weeks is enough time for it to sink in or I'll be screwed on my cumulative finals. I'm feeling more positive now, though...Still need to decide if engineering is an appropriate major for me. At least it doesn't feel as if the decision has be stripped from my hands...now I see more options to complete what needs to get done, though it shall be a heavy workload. Been out of school for so long *sigh* other than my short stint taking music, it's been about 11 years.


***UPDATE
ugh...never mind. I'm an idiot. I should probably sleep. I was looking at a summer schedule when I thought I was looking at spring, perhaps? Which would explain why it said 5 weeks (that's what made me check, because half of a standard term is 8 weeks). So, my previous assessment was correct. My campus doesn't offer half-term courses during the two standard semesters in math classes above algebra. I'll just have to pick up the slack in summer. I have 2 summer sessions, and if I complete algebra in winter, I should finish everything on time to transfer. I need to work on having a regular sleep schedule. For the most part, I'm an insomniac and that's not good for studying purposes. I make stupid mistakes like confusing summer and spring. Time for some sleeping pills. Thanks again, though.

You're welcome!

Hmm, I didn't realize that there are multiple campuses... so I guess yeah some campuses might not offer half-semester classes? Another thing to double-check I suppose, and I'd definitely do it too if I didn't have to work on my dissertation at the moment.

I never was able to keep a regular sleep schedule while an undergrad. It's tough, but nothing like difficult situations like this to test your resolve and see what kind of person you're made of in the end. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.