Go to college or go to work?

Post Reply New Topic

http://www.npr.org/blogs/talk/2008/05/d ... llege.html nice article folks. check it out

So many people say "Go to college to learn, not just to get a job." All well and good until the loans are due, then deconstructing the essays of Sarte and naming all the stars of the Orion constellation become a very hollow achievement, indeed. Time was, every man or woman with a bachelor's degree was guaranteed a job in their field of study, because there weren't so many of them. Now companies and institutions can pick and choose. Fact is, it's a buyer's market, if you're a company in need of a graduate.

Agreed.

As much as education is nice to have, the fact is that in a profit or perish economic model, you CAN NOT justify the outrageous cost of education unless you can afford to pay for it. With ever increasing percentages of students NEEDING to finance part or all of their education in order to afford the cost, they need a job that pays not just well enough to sustain themselves but to meet the repayment schedule of those loans.

The simple fact is, such jobs hardly exist anymore in the USA, and you certainly don't get them fresh out of school...a total reversal of how it was 30 years ago.

Either we need to de-emphatize the importance of a college degree in employment (the vast majority of jobs do not require skills available solely by college degree and can be conveyed in on-the-job training) or we need to move to a "soup to nuts" form of state-paid education so you can get as much education as you need (or want) and not worry about post graduate income because there is no debt load on your back.

Right now, education benefits nobody. The graduates aren't making that much better than their non-college graduate peers (certainly true when you look at their student loan debt), and employers lacking the financial reserves can't afford to hire the "best and brightest" because of the salary demands they would command.

Want an educated and skilled labor pool to benefit all levels of the labor market, education needs to be dirt cheap or free.

Frankly, every man I know PERSONALLY who is rolling in money doesn't have a college degree or is not using their degree to make that money. There are lots of ways to earn a living without an expensive piece of paper, but you have to look outside the mainstream labor market which has been dominated by academia's influence in hiring.

It's not college it's the caliber of the people in college.

It's just like anything else in life and it boils down to this- if you're stupid or lazy, don't waste your time in college.

A degree will get you an interview, being competent will WIN you the job... and make no mistake, it is a competition.

EDIT:

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit harsh... but there's nothing wrong with college for the right people. So I guess the article is right in that for many, college is not the right choice.

I spent 20 years in a blue collar tech job that required an AAS and I can't tell you how many people I've met who managed to get the degree yet were hopelessly incompetent and unable to do the job.

Those people certainly wasted 2-3 years of their lives...

And now, back in school pursuing a degree in History, I can say that most of my classmates are wasting their time. They can't write. They can't think. BUT, the school will pass most of them with a C as long as they CAN pay their tuition...

So yeah, I guess for many, skipping college is the smart thing to do.

I got great grades in college. Even finished graduate school.

In truth, maybe in part because of AS, I would have been happy doing most anything that paid decently and had benefits. I'm not "driven" to achieve anymore, and without drive, all I care about is earning a check so I can live my live in my free time as I so choose (most of it consists of sitting and playing video games).

Absent focus, I can't stay committed the way employers expect me to be if I want those high-powered jobs.

Hence, the education really isn't doing me any good. I presumed that if I got good grades, I'd get the job and just grind away earning my paycheck. No. They want "achievers" and grades alone don't cut it.

College is definitely a waste of time. Besides being one of the most economically inefficient industries out there, it doesn't even prepare you for anything. I've been in college for 2.5 years now. Do I feel any better prepared for the "real world"? No. It's just a giant profit machine that costs way too much money, makes you take pointless classes (gen eds) so they can squeeze even more nickels and dimes out of you, and these days it isn't even good enough to be guaranteed a job. I've always slacked off in school, because I was always unchallenged. College isn't much different, except there's more work to procrastinate.

Yeah, I guess that’s a fair point. I suppose I’m lucky in that my pathology drives me to do everything to perfection… and yeah, employers eat that up.

I was also lucky in that most jobs allowed me enough time between projects to decompress and do what I wanted (play war games, read, think and write about history). It wasn’t until the last few years, that jobs became tedious enough to burn me out, hence my change…

I’m having a blast, and love college for its own sake… I plan to go as long as I can, and when I can’t go anymore, I’ll teach!

Well, it does prepare you...if you figure out what it's really preparing you for.

I know many who have gone far because of college, but they figured out the trick and exploited it to open doors. The masses (NT and AS) who don't figure it out get a piece of paper that has limited marketability.

College is great--if you know what you can get out of it. Unless it's some form of vocational education, college really trains you to think differently. Sadly, very few people truly know what that means. Fewer college age kids know what it means to think differently. Most kids who are in college, even if they can "use" an undergraduate education, should not be there.

My personal feelings are that kids should spend the first year or so after high school working full time. That could be full-time employment, a stint in the military, maybe even travel if you have enough money. People just need to do something to gain perspective on things.

Personally, I went straight to college. I don't know if that choice was good, bad or indifferent, but I am going to grad school. And I'm waiting a few years and working first before I get a graduate education. I just need to mature more before I get one.

I know I've complained a lot on here about the difficult time I've had adjusting to the university, but one of the bright spots (and one of the major things that keeps me going) is the emphasis that this school (at least in my programs of study) puts on being realistically marketable and employable after graduation. I honestly did not expect a university to be that vocationally-oriented, and it's been a pleasant surprise. These people genuinely want their students to have successful careers, and they go the extra mile to help us make that happen. We get a LOT of "real-world" people in the field coming in to talk to us in classes, clubs, and general presentations.

So...I think much depends on the school you go to, the program you are in, and how the two go together. (For example, they say around here that if you want to be a teacher, go to University of Northern Iowa; if you want to be in the medical field, go to University of Iowa; and if you want to do the biological/environmental field work stuff, go to Iowa State.)

Hope this info helps a little.

I would keep in mind that many employers are more likely to hire someone with at least a bachelor's degree, regardless of field.

Without a college degree, it's going to be very tough to find a decent job. The key to when you graduate from college is to find the perfect match. Even that is tricky!

Well... what's this trick then?



How does college train you to think differently? From my experience, college has an extreme left-wing political bias. It doesn't seem to really encourage having your own individual views. Not to mention that with all the "group work" they push on you, they really seem to discourage individual achievement.

How does college train you to think differently? From my experience, college has an extreme left-wing political bias. It doesn't seem to really encourage having your own individual views. Not to mention that with all the "group work" they push on you, they really seem to discourage individual achievement.[/quote]

Colleges do not train you to think differently by giving you an information dump. Instead, college is a self-directed experience, and when done right, it can train you to think differently. Very few undergraduates understand this, especially when they come directly from high school. I myself have only an intellectual understanding of this dictum; putting it into practice is far harder. However, those able to grasp college as a self-directed experience get far more out of it than a shiny piece of paper and a few lines on a resume.

Also, colleges are not left-leaning, but many professors are. The only real role for a college should be to gather some smart people in a room and have them talk with one another. A good college administration knows how to make this process more efficient, but the real role of a college is just to put people together. It's a tragedy that our culture overlooks this aspect of a college education.

You almost answered your own question.

College is a microcosm of the real world. We like to say that academia knows nothing about the real world, and that's true in that schools deal with theory but most of the teachers know little about what really will work in the outside world.

However, the "politics" is the "trick." The people I know who got ahead after college spent their time forming relationships with professors who could open doors for them. If that meant drinking the globalist Kool-Aid and spouting what the professors wanted to hear, that's what they did. More so, they spent a good bit of their time socializing in the right circles...building connections that would help them network for career development both during and after college. People like this tended to graduate and go straight into either their desired graduate programs (thanks to help from their professor connections) or into good jobs where others were lucky just to find work.

I know a lot of students respected me for having my own mind, opinions and not being afraid to stand up for what I believed in, but not one professor bothered to lift a finger to open any doors for me, and the only people who were my friends in college had no influence to help me get ahead after I graduated.

Most students (even the NTs) presume if they get good grades, that's what matters. No. You need good grades AND contacts who will open doors for you. The way you get those contacts is to rub elbows with those who can help you get ahead.

Back out in the real world, you see that's how things are done anyway. You rarely get opportunity and advancement by being good at what you do...it's more about who you know that gets you ahead. Academia follows this model but never openly admits to doing that.

I wish every state would be like Iowa! Iowa is a gem amongst the rough stones... in addressing employment issues.