Biochemistry Ph.D

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I'm currently an undergrad biochem major.
I am both dedicated and passionate - and I am very, very interested in eventually teaching at the university level and in doing research as well. Needless to say, I want to get a Ph.D in the future.
I'm a year into my four years of undergrad, should graduate in 2013. Assuming my interest doesn't waiver, around how long might it take to continue on and get a biochem PhD? What if I just did Biology for my PhD? Or if I shot for a straight chemistry pHD? Would there be any difference in time investment between these subjects?

At this point I'm more curious about this stuff than looking for actual, fast info. But I'd love some answers! So... Anyone have any insight?
Thanks! (:

Why are you getting a PhD?

To teach ESL in foreign countries, or do you have a specific career in mind?

If you do have career plans, look at what is required.

I am a fifth year Molecular Biology PhD student and will be finishing in a few months.

If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. It takes a ridiculous amount of time, and most people are not aware of just how much work it entails. I wish I had chosen a career where a bachelors or at most a masters degree was sufficient so that I could have begun my real life in my early twenties instead of being 30 years old and still living like a college student.

Of an entering class of about 30 students in 2005, over half dropped out within 2 years, and I will be the second one of my class to actually graduate. Most of the others are looking at another 1-2 years. After spending 5+ years working insane hours earning less than $25 as a grad student, if you want to stay in acedemia you'll have to do a post-doc (I'm not). As a post-doc expect to spend another 4-8 years working 80 hours a week (you'll do this if want to be able to produce quality publications that will land you a professorship) earning about $40,000 before becoming a professor. Once becoming professor, expect to continue working 80 hours a week busting your ass to produce more quality publications while teaching so you can get tenure.

Unlike practically any other type of degree, hard work and study is not enough. In order to succeed you have to be both creative and lucky. I have seen alot of very smart grad students who were far more intelligent than me drop out because their experiments failed, they couldn't think up something original, or someone beat them to publication thus rendering years of effort wasted. I was in that boat the first two years and nearly dropped out. Partly by chance, and partly through creative thinking, I lucked into a topic that landed me a very important and significant paper in the most prestigious scientific journal in the world. That was my ticket out of here, and I plan on going into the biotech industry after I graduate leaving behind wretched academia for good.

Of course I don't know you, for all know you could be the next Einstein and become professor by the age of 30. Its possible, but very very unlikely. If you are a more typical case, expect to have a very rough, demanding, and low paying career until you are in your forties (your passion for the subject might get you through these sacrifices though). If at any step of the way (grad-student, post-doc, pre-tenured professor) your research doesn't produce results through your own fault or bad luck, it could sink you.

Jaejoongfangirl, students in the UK often finish their PhDs within three years.
But I imagine this still requires the long hours, hard work and luck that Molecular_Biologist describes. (I wouldn't know since I've never done a PhD.)

I'm an undergrad in a similar field. Some post-grad areas the students are strongly encouraged to finish their PhD in 3 years, others maybe it takes longer. it does vary, from what I understand.
Personally, I would only do one if there's a field I am especially interested in. It could be a truly noble pursuit, but I have to weigh that up with how I want to live on a daily basis and how mmuch of that comes from intellect and how much from other sources ..

What courses have you taken in pertaining to Bio and Chem. Have you taken an actual Biochemistry class or molecular Bio? Cause you dont really know whether you like biochem until you've at least taken an Biochem or Mo bio class. At your level I would guess your probably taking you've probably taken your intro level bio and chem classes. Just because you might like those classes dosent mean you'd like Biochemistry. Im a biochem undergraduate major going onto being a senior and I made a huge mistake. And I cant change my major cause its too late and my school is really expensive. Personally I love chem, and bio is ok by themselves. But I hate biochemistry. So Id say take either a mo bio class or biochem class as soon as you can so your sure that this is what you want to go into. Biochem is a very difficult subject matter.

I'm just getting ready to apply to a phd program in genetics for next year. Since your just starting out you still have time to make up your mind. The first thing I would do is find a senior or an alumni from your school in your field and talk to them about it. One thing you need to know upfront is that graduate level science is more of a lifestyle choice then a career. You need to eat, breath, and sleep(or not sleep) science. If this is your passion then go for it, if not you may want to consider other fields. On average a phd takes about six years to complete, in the sciences you normally get a sniped that pays anywhere from 17,000 - 30,000, normally its around 25,000. You normally dont pay any tuition, and you can defer your student loans. This is not a lot to live on but you can certainly get by on it. you will work 40 - 80 hours a week, closer to the 80 hours side of things, nights, weekends, and holidays.

In terms of course work I would suggest a double major biochm/chm and biochm/bio are the most common. If you could somehow triple major in biochm/chm/bio then you would look ridicules on any application. I am a biology and computer science double major. You have time so just load up on science class and see if its your thing, make a decision in your softmore year and then try to get into an undergraduate research program (google REUs). This is the single most important part of your application research experience. And if you get into a research experience program and realize you hate it then forget graduate school, conversely if you love it then you have found the right thing for you.

I second the molecular bio and eccentric. REU program is very useful to see the grad student lifestyle and see if you can handle it.

Have you thought about medical school and specializing, say, in pathology?

(and I trust you are pre-studying and kind of, sort of running one semester ahead )

Thank you so so so so much, everyone! I appreciate all of the insight and advice. It's extremely helpful. (:

I don't think my school allows a double or triple major for biochem students. I mean, they don't let you major in Biology and biochem or in chemistry and biochem. It's weird because they are 3 different disciplines, but, where I go at least, the course load is very similar for all three. A triple major branching off of biochem would require me to take very few additional classes so my university just decided that Biochem was a stand-alone thing.
I am thinking about something a bit different though... They have a program for getting a bachelors degree in Biology and a masters degree in Biology in only 5 years total. With my current planned course load, I'm already pretty much following this track, except with a biochem bachelor's. Now, if that could happen... wouldn't that be incredible? I plan to talk with my academic advisor about this ASAP and see if he thinks I'm insane for even entertaining the idea. Well, and to ask if it's even possible.

Though I didn't apply to any officially titled "REU" things, this summer I actually got a place assisting one of the biochem professors at my university with research. I've been in for about a month and a half now and I find each day very interesting; I'm even already learning a bit about genetics and O. Chem things, even though I don't take those classes until this upcoming fall! I'm probably going to continue this work into the school year.

Also, I got accepted into an undergrad future-researcher-prep/we-give-you-money program thing. It's called BRITE and it involves summer internships and stuff. Biomedical research to be specific. So more future in lab experience there. It actually also means that I'm automaticly accepted into UT Southwestern's PhD program - but I'm not barred to going there if I change my mind or want to go elsewhere. Plus they give me moolah to help pay for undergrad.... Which is always lovely. In fact, a bit more would be even better...

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I had a ton more typed but a while back my laptop decided to close all my windows for no reason. So, maybe I'll remember something important that got deleted and that I forgot to mention here in post 2.0, later, but until then, I need some sleep. I just wanted to get some kind of a reply in here before drifting off. Thanks again, folks!

Please be a little careful once you start your O. Chem classes. As I understand it, organic chemistry classes are almost made intentionally difficult, or overly large, and perhaps with negative self-fulfilling prophecies on the part of the professor, and intended rather to be 'weed-out' classes for pre-med. And last summer, I sat in on an Organic II class in which the professor announced that this class was much more challenging than Organic I.

I know from personal experience that Calculus II is much more conceptually advanced---and more interesting---than Calculus I. Still eminently doable , just bite-sized pieces and pre-studying.

That's what I call an open field.

hahaha. Yup, it's a pretty sweet deal. (:
As for O.Chem being a weed-out class, I've already been through both into Biology and general chemistry last year and, as a result, have already seen many panicked, disillusioned pre-meds change their major to English, Business, or Art History - and I'm sure many more will fall before this next year is up. Both those classes were in enormous, 100% filled lecture halls, like you described.
Calculus one and two were similarly formulated to be tough. This fall I'll be in Calc 3.

Thanks for the O. Chem warning - I hear that it's an insane class. I know O. Chem will be demanding but I know I can study - and study hard. I'll also try to have fun with it - I am the queen of mnemonic aides and I'm planning on setting up an study group, if I can.
My schedule next semester is:
Genetics, Organic Chemistry plus lab, General Physics plus lab and Calculus 3. Not really too excited about the last two.
I may also be working in a lab for a professor in the biology departmet. So um... yup. I should be rather busy. To say the least.

Sounds a little math heavy. I'd encourage you to continue tinkering with it.