Dealing with a Bully?

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I need some help, guys. There's a kid who's bullying me. When I come into school, he corners me in the hallway and calls me hurtful names. I've been ignoring him like my counselor told me to do, but he won't stop. Now he's got a posse of jocks and he's threatening that they'll beat me up. What do I do? Serious advice, please.

I read recently that bullies are social climbers. The idea is that school (or even work) has hierarchies. There are those of us at the bottom. There are the popular kids who are naturally at the top. Then there are bullies who hate being at the bottom and try to muscle their way up the ladder, to build themselves a position at the top, by power rather than popularity.

I was always the school victim to a group of bullies. That was a long time ago. Sometimes I think back to what I might have done to get their attention. What might have made me an attractive target. How I might have bully-proofed myself.

I concluded that the things that worked against me were the same that works against a weak herd animal when there are lions or hyenas around. Such predators are opportunistic. They look for weak animals. They look for alone animals that strayed from the safety of the herd. That describes how I was. An undiagnosed Aspie who was friendless and a little strange.

Remember, keeping it quiet will work against you. You might not want to dob on them, but that doesn't mean you need to make it easy on them. Take any beating as much in the open as possible. Since bullies are concerned how they are perceived by others, it might help, if you can get as many people as possible to perceive them as nasty people who victimize the weak. You don't need to talk to everyone about it or point fingers; but you make sure that others see, by positioning yourself. If he shoves you, make sure you bang into something loud. Bullies don't like negative attention. The problem with just doing only that, is you might still be alone (a weak position), and now have to deal with an angry bully.

But you can help your position by getting in with a group. He built up his own posse. Can you do something similar? I'm not talking about an angry mob who wish to start trouble, but surely you're not the only single person around. If you are and everyone else is already in a group, join one... or make your own. You are a less attractive victim if you can swell your numbers.

This subject was also explored on this thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt175444.html

Teachers and counselors always tell the aspie to ignore bullies, without telling them HOW to do it right. Most people with poor social skills, when they attempt to ignore a bully, it always fails because they still give off a vibe of being upset. Thus, the bully gets a satisfactory reaction anyway.

I would say don't let it persist. I saw a kid who was homosexual, along with Asperger's, talk mad s**t back to a ultra-conservative Christian preacher who was taunting the kid's homosexuality. He flicked the preacher's hat of when he left, and I felt inspired by the poor kid.

Aspie kicking ass

Your counselor suggested a good first course of action. Sometimes ignoring the person works and works just fine. But sometimes it doesn't.

Okay, I see that you're age 12. I'm going to assume you're in 6th grade, the first year of junior high and that can be a difficult year when school authorities are frequently absent.

Please talk to your parents if you're on good terms with them. If you're not on particularly good terms or if your parents tend to blame me (I know my Dad tended to blame me), consider unstating the case, such as 'It is beginning to be a problem.'

And trust your gut instincts whether or not there is a reasonable-seeming teacher or principal to talk with. Again, with understating the case, it's more likely the teacher or principal will say, wow, it kind of sounds serious and will advance your case and actually debate with you a little that it is serious. No guarantee of this, but I do think this is the percentage play.

It is not entirely off the table transferring to a better school.

It is not entirely off the table engaging in pre-fight behavior in a public place. You do not want to be alone in case there's more than one. You prefer a somewhat public place.

If you could take tomorrow and Thursday afternoon to hire a boxing instructor in your area for private lessons, you can learn a lot. Now, you're hoping not to have to use it. A good instructor will always preach, walk away from a fight if you can.

And my idea of masculinity is like a doctor who is a builder of their community. Or, someone who is a political activist who does positive things even if others aren't doing positive things.

I don't really believe in a cowboy version of masculinity. But outside chance, you might have to pretend a little bit, a fair version of this. One or one, someone your own side. Pretend like it's no big deal whether a fight happens and no big deal if it doesn't happen. Then, in paradoxical zen-like fashion, a fight is then less likely to happpen.

And I advocate, tight, defensive boxing to a draw. Because it's not strategic to embarrass or humiliate someone you're likely to see again.

If you "win," be gracious. Maybe say something like 'Sorry it had to come to that' if someone else brings it up. The part in Hollywood movies of getting a bunch of friends from winning a fight is a bunch of hookum. And these probably aren't really the type of people you're want as friends anyway.

So, like skillful welterweight boxing, a lot of emphasis on blocks, some quick jabs to the face for distraction, and then the money shot of quick powerful hooks to the rib cage. And I wish it didn't have to be this way. And again, not trying to pummelize someone. Prefer a draw, and thus less grounds for future fight.

Even with skills, will only work against someone your own size.

And please don't take a bunch of blows to your head during training because all that stuff about post-concussion syndrome is largely true, and even repeated lessor blows can be damaging. In football, I think this is called CTE. And just like football helmets don't really protect, presumably neither does boxing headgear. Just tell the instructor, I don't want to take a bunch of blows to the head.

Okay, if that first guy corners you in the hallway, matter-of-factly tell him, 'That's enough.' If he persists, maybe place the heel of your hand against his solar plexus (middle of abdomen, right below rib cage) and give him a short, sharp shove. 'I SAID THAT'S ENOUGH!' And you only want to do this if he's the same size or maybe a little bigger. You don't want to pick a fight with someone bigger. A marital arts instructor or boxing coach can show you how to do this in one or two lessons. Practice. It does make a difference.
Tight, defensive boxing to a draw. One week.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt134616.html

Now, he might just be talking crap about his posse of athletes. He might be overstating how much he's friends with them or how much they listen to him. Or, he might not.

As a fallback position, as an option if need be, pick one of the athletes who's a leader and who's about your same size. 'I hear you're talking about fighting me. Well, if you think we need to fight, maybe we can meet outside the cafeteria after lunch' Publicly eat a light meal with confidence and eat it quick. [You are picking the semi-public place.]

I wish none of this was necessary.

All the more reason to give a school authority a chance, 'beginning to be a problem.' But don't just go through the motions. It needs to be someone who you really think in your gut might come through on your behalf, even if it's a long shot.

And amazing what you can learn three boxing lessons in a week (individual lessons much better than group) and then practicing some on your own.

And, walk away from a fight if you reasonably can.

You're twelve. They're just kids.

It's a little scary now. In ten years it won't even be a memory.

SET THEM ON FIRE!! ! [/facetiousness]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gq0zj3qFAE[/youtube]

Watch and learn.

My dad told me to do the same as the video and told me to stand up to the bullies. So I got into a lot of fights as a kid. I knew those tae kwon do lesson would come in handy. I never got into as much trouble as some as I was also many teachers favourite (quiet and hard working type) so I use to get light warnings if any most of the time. It might also be as I was a girl beating up the boys

yes, I have seen this video before. It is good comedy, but it is only comedy. It is overdoing, and then he becomes the bad guy. It goes overboard and becomes revenge, and becomes ridiculous.

I very much prefer the idea of tight, defensive boxing, preferable to a draw. In fact, I wish this was more widely understood for international relations.

Bring the situation to the attention of the school authorities. You've told your counselor. Insist that the counselor show you where they have logged this in your file. If they haven't, tell them you want to see a letter, signed by them, and dated, that states you brought the bullying to their attention. Write a letter of your own. Give it to the school's principal or headmaster. In it, inform them that you are being bullied, that it is a repeat offense from the same individual, and that you have officially asked for help from the counselor. Find out what your school's policy is on bullying, and if they are following it. Find out what your school's policy is on fighting. I agree wholeheartedly with the idea of self-defense, but if the school's policy is to suspend or expel anyone and everyone involved in a fight, taking that course of action means you still lose.

By all means follow the advice of staying in well-trafficked areas. Have witnesses at all times. Document each and every incident. Insist on speaking to the school's principal or headmaster after every single incident. Describe each incident in writing with a list of names of the people who witnessed it. Remind them of the school's policy, and keep tabs on whether they are enforcing it. Don't be whiny. But do be consistent in your communication to them.

One of two things will happen: Either this will begin to waste a LOT of the administration's time, and they will take action based on that, or they will see that you are building a very clear paper trail, and that inaction on their part could lead to an investigation from their superiors or worse yet, legal proceedings.

All of this goes more smoothly if your parents are involved, but it's not strictly necessary. Still, having an advocate helps. Ask your counselor what they are doing on THEIR end while you are busy ignoring them. If they're doing their job, they're already advocating for you with the administration. If not, this provides them with a wakeup call.

Now, I wasn't sure from the original post whether this was an in-school or out-of-school counselor. If it's the latter, one can also make an appointment or otherwise go see the in-school counselor. When I was in junior high (way back in the 1970s!), the school made a point of having both a male and female counselor available to talk with students. They also made a point of reminding you that you could go talk to either one. I still like the idea of strategic understating such as 'beginning to be a problem' in order to give the school authority a chance to catch up.

I very much agree with the idea of establishing a paper trail, as one strategy track among several.

And I agree that having a parent or other advocate present helps but is not strictly necessary. Without an advocate present, the principal might try and talk you into withdrawing the complaint, basically because he or she does not have to do the after-the-meeting steps or risk embarrassment for taking it more seriously than they 'should' (i.e. causing work for other people). Again, I wish the world wasn't this way, but often, it sure seems to be. With an advocate present, that's off the table. You are making the complaint. The principal or other school official is likely to be very courteous. Whether or not they're good at following through is another step. But at least you have that first step. If you're on good terms with your parent(s), you can both speak during the meeting, roughly the same amount, anywhere between 30 and 70%. That is, you can speak 30% and your parent 70, or you can speak 70% and your parent 30%. Both are fine.

At the same time, I like the idea of a few individual boxing lessons as a fallback. Don't overdo it, and only against someone your own size. And please don't take hardly any blows to the head during training, regardless of whether or not you're wearing headgear.

take more dives than a hockey player from Europe. Frequently.

As someone that was bullied in school I know that the "fighting back", "boxing lessons", and the idea of confronting them once and for all in a busy, high traffic area only gets my heart beating harder. If it were easier to confront and get it over with then EVERYONE would do just that. In my case, the thought of standing up to them was much scarier than the fear of putting up with them the next day.

The fact is that standing up to bullies is something you have to prepare for, and 98% of it is dealing with the fear. I just wanted it to stop and be left alone. At 12 years old I stood 4'6" and weighed maybe 70 pounds. At 12 years old I took a punch to the face from a bully while his big brother stood by to watch. At 14 years old I took a head butt to the back of the head followed by a punch in the face from a football player. Then I was all of 85 pounds.

It takes steps. The big brother from the first example (and I) became friends about a year later. The football player from the second example never wanted to deal with me again, and we never spoke two words to each other for the next three years of high school. There were others, but nothing that lasted.

I'll help you with the steps.

- First just explain the position of your parents or guardian(s). Have you told them? What did he/she/they say?
- Do you think the counselor will do anything about it if you keep going back to them?
- Why did the bully pick you?
- IMPORTANT: What is the school? Jr. High, public school, private school... Where is it? I'm from Illinois. I also know there's a huge difference in the types of schools and types of kids that attend them. In rural schools or smaller community schools you don't need to worry about some idiot's "posse" coming after you no matter what you do. In schools located in urban areas or resource-deprived communities or neighborhoods the approach MUST be handled differently.
- Please don't take blind advice!! ! Encouraging you to "man up" and eventually confronting a hick-town bully might work fine but confronting someone in a city gang is a terrible mistake. That requires a different approach.

I'll help you get through it. Take a deep breath. Please answer the quick questions above and we'll go from there. Keep your head up kid!

Another example might be H&R Block. Even though it's not really an ethical company because they don't disclose substantial negatives of their loan and bank products, when I was working there it was a more ethical company because I did make efforts to disclose. I tried to hit the important points including some of these negatives in brief, respectful fashion (meaning, I didn't harangue the customer). I tried to be open to actual dialogue.

One office manager complimented me in that I was an advocate for the underdog.

Another year, one regional "management" (cough,cough) person was against me for proactively calling customers who were not approved for the loans. I supposed she preferred for them to storm the store, which they often did. Well, you win some, you lose some. The worse part of the bank products is the possibility of third-party bank "cross-collection." Yes, it's serious. It happens about 1 out of 100 times. And I did make efforts to inform my clients.

All this is part of being a man.

Boxing lessons is a fall back position. Something hope not to have to use, and then only with a person about your same size.