Were any of you guys really awful at math once?

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Yeah, I know what I'm doing wrong. It's mostly simple mistakes that can easily be fixed. And I make those mistakes due to the fact that I'm actually half-asleep on most of the quizzes and tests. The AC is always on, and for some reason, it just makes me really sleepy.

I've been quite good at maths my whole life, just making small mistakes where there are lots of numbers so I write down the wrong one or whatever.

Until this year, anyway. I started further maths, with a different teacher to the one I've had for 3 years, and I cannot learn maths with her. As a result, I seem to be getting worse at maths on a daily basis.

I was in the Maths class for students struggling with Maths. The easiest maths class at my school. I JUST passed it. I'm at a very beginner level of maths. I barely know basic maths. To answer your question, yes.

I posted a thread to address this very subject. If you think you suck at math, please take a minute to read it.

CLICK HERE: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5109792.html

Math was my best subject until we got to the Order of Operations. Like many Grammar Rules, I never have found a teacher willing to explain to me WHY it's done that way, and so I don't see any reason to do it that way. I won't simply accept their "Because we said so" attitude on this.. since that attitude has NEVER worked for me.. No one cares what I say, so why should I care what they say if they aren't willing to explain it?

Bingo. Math education is primarily about memorization and recitation of frequently arbitrary, and invariably disjointed, instructions.

That's not to say that it's all useless; much of what is covered is actually important and useful, and even beautiful and inspiring, but the way it is covered renders it utterly meaningless and useless.

As Lockhart observes, students describe math class as "boring and stupid", and they're right.

There has to be an order of operations so that everyone working the problem will, if doing it correctly, get the right answer. If there was no established order of operations we would have chaos.

In addition to that, it seems quite natural for multiplication and division to take precedence over addition and subtraction.

If we write 1+x/y (think of writing it with x over y with a horizontal line between them), the x/y is clearly grouped together. To add 1 to x and then divide by two breaks that clear grouping. Similarly, for 1+xy, the xy feels like a single thing even if it is the product of a multiplication. So we multiply the x by y first and then add 1 to it.

At lower levels, maybe. At higher levels, if you depend on memorization, you are going to do very badly. You need to learn what is happening, not memorize formulas. If you just memorize formulas, you likely aren't going remember them for long.

And that's exactly what I said, and what Lockhart said.

And the order of operations does have a basic logic of sorts, as you observe, but it breaks down very quickly under scrutiny, and ultimately is completely pointless. Just use more parantheses.

Too many parenthesis just leads to more confusion if you have too many terms in an equation. It is far less confusing to just use the canonical order of operations.

You can try that logic in programming, but it's liable to get you fired.

And I'm not seeing a lot of examples in math, either.



This is just not something that any grade schooler needs to care about.

You still didn't really explain WHY it's done that way, you just said "It seems quite natural", and just speaking personally, I disagree. I learned to add and subtract first, so I don't see why they shouldn't also still be first. I mean I'm not blaming you, I've had college proffesors who know differential equations like the back of their hand yet they still can't explain to me WHY certain things are the way they are.

That is why it's done that way.

Also, it mirrors language much closer. If you say "I would like four apples and five oranges", the grocery clerk gives you four apples and he gives you five oranges. He doesn't try to give you (four apples + five) oranges. He gives you (four apples) + (five oranges). Similarly four 'x' plus five 'y' means four of 'x' and five of 'y', not (4 of 'x' plus 5) of y. That would be silly and very confusing.

Actually, if addition was first, then 4x+5y would be 4*(x+5)*y. If we spoke like that in language, than four apples and five oranges would be four (apples + 5) oranges which makes no more sense than just doing the operations strictly left to right.

If we did it one way in language and another way in math, then that would really confuse people.

I don't see how you can compare tangible objects to scribbles on paper? It doesn't matter in which order the clerk gives you the fruit, so long as you have the proper quantity of fruit in the end. He could give you 5 oranges first, or he could give you 4 apples first. doesn't matter.

I have the feeling this is simply one of those cases, like grammar rules, where 'Some Dead white/indian/greek/arabic' guy said so now do it and don't question it. And I revolt at those sorts of situations..

Mathematics and language are, to some extent, related. Both are used at least partially to describe the world. To have different and contrasting rules for each would be highly confusing.

With a completely different language with a much different structure, our mathematics would likely be different on such issues.

see I don't follow when people tell me that Math "Describes" the world.. But that could be the basis of my not understanding it. I don't speak that language and never really have beyond the most simple ideas.


I have 2 apples, you give me 2 apples, i now have 4 apples, and then I eat an apple and I have 3 apples.. that's about as far into Math as I can get with any level of confidence..