Mentioning autism without officially disclosing?

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AJisHere
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03 Jun 2016, 12:30 pm

It's started to annoy me how I feel I can't talk to my coworkers about my having autism. This is something that affects me heavily, but I worry that without going through all the hoops to disclose it to my employer I'll be shooting myself in the foot if I just casually mention it.

I'm not in any danger of losing my job; it's a union store and I've made myself pretty much indispensable. I get along well with my coworkers and have been praised on my interactions with customers. However, there's not zero risk; I do worry I might be "overlooked" for promotions or more desirable hours. If I don't officially disclose, this isn't actually discrimination in the eyes of the law, is it?

Should I just go through the paperwork and such and disclose to my employer? I don't actually need any accommodation, but it seems like it'd be good for covering my ass! :P


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Deinonychus
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04 Jun 2016, 5:49 pm

It is possible to call it discrimination even if you haven't disclosed it to anyone.

It's a tough decision whether to disclose it or not. It is completely your choice, and you should only do it after a period of contemplation. It's probably a good idea if you read some help-help books for people with Aspergers or seek advice from any local autism organization close to where you live.

If you ask me, I would say that you should disclose it, for several reasons:
1) It would help a lot when you talk to coworkers and they would appreciate your honesty - but keep in mind that there are many misconceptions about Aspergers and some people may talk down to you or otherwise treat you wrong
2) things are doing well at work, you are good at what you are doing, and therefore it is the right time to do it.
3) if there are discrimination issues going on, your bosses won't be able to dismiss the accusations if they officially know that you have Aspergers.

But, and I must strees this, it is completely your choice.



izzeme
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06 Jun 2016, 3:59 am

I would disclose it, this can prevent several issues.

However, i recommend going to your employer first.
You dont have to go trough the paperwork, but as least unofficially disclose to him, before doing so to the collegues, just as an act of curtesy



AJisHere
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08 Jun 2016, 12:27 am

Good advice, thank you both!


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SocOfAutism
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09 Jun 2016, 12:11 pm

I just submitted a draft of my thesis on this subject, and on the subject of autistic workers in general.

I have also spent some time researching Passing, which is a huge part of life on the spectrum. There has been a lot documented about other kinds of passing, such as race and sexual orientation passing, but almost nothing about autism spectrum passing.

It may become detrimental to your well-being to pass all the time at work. It would probably depend on how often it was an issue. If the topic came up a lot, if you LOOKED or ACTED autistic and had to actively conceal it, or if you were often bothered by sensory problems or highly social tasks that you couldn't get out of- this kind of environment eats away at most people. I would do some thinking about how big a deal "being autistic at work" is and that might tell you how much and to whom you should disclose.

I do not know about other countries, but in the United States, only a formal, medical documentation given to your boss and/or HR protects you under the ADA. You can be discriminated against for being autistic and you can be denied accommodations (legally) if you do not medically disclose. That's just how the ADA works. So you should do some thinking about that too.

If I were going to advise a personal friend of mine what to do in this circumstance, I would advise providing a medical diagnosis to HR and then sitting down and having an educational talk with your boss. I would mention it to your co-workers and immediately give your own, brief explanation of what autism is and how it applies to you. No long explanation, just a short description.

For example, you might say something like, "I am on the autism spectrum. It's not a big deal. It just means that I have to use more energy for social situations. That's why I'm not good on the phone." That wouldn't make anyone uncomfortable and they would remember it. They might ask a (possibly offensive) question, and you could answer. I would include statements like, "I'm normal. I just don't like loud noises." or "Just like you hate reports, I don't like meetings." They may not be suggesting that you are NOT normal, but you don't want to give anyone the opportunity to have weird thoughts about autism. These kinds of statements peppered into explanations builds a positive picture of autism to the people you have to be around every day.



AJisHere
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10 Jun 2016, 1:28 am

Thanks so much, SocOfAutism! That's extremely helpful.

First off, I work in a grocery store; that limits my options for accommodations even if I did disclose; people really have no idea how tricky it is to keep one running efficiently unless they've done it. I couldn't ask for longer or more frequent breaks for instance; there would be nobody to cover for me. I can't ask for much as regards sensory issues; stores are bright, loud and holy crap the freezer is cold! :lol: As for social situations; it's a customer service job...

Based on what you've said there though, I think it's in my best interest not to disclose or tell anyone about it. It's too much risk for almost no reward, and most of the things I want out of it could probably be achieved without ever mentioning I have any sort of disability. My boss and coworkers are pretty cool though and I can make things work. For example, I have a hoody I wear when I'm working frozen or in the dairy; got one in uniform colors and they're totally cool with it. I told the Front End manager I'm pretty introverted and will want to go work in the back later in my shift, and she finds opportunities for me to do so. I don't need to disclose to find tricks like this.

I'm exceptionally good at passing by all accounts and it takes considerably less effort than it used to. The most unnerving thing about it for me (if not the most challenging) is just the fact I can't talk about it. I've definitely wanted to tell coworkers about it before, but I can only describe things as being "personality quirks". I wish I could say more, but we can't have everything we want.


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SocOfAutism
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10 Jun 2016, 8:55 am

Ah, okay. My usual grocery store has slowly become pretty aspie heavy in the past 10 years or so. I have become friendly with some of the employees and noticed that not all of the autistic employees realize that they themselves are autistic. So someone there is definitely hiring a "type" that they like.

I have noticed that some of the baggers and stockers who are on the spectrum will wear earplugs to dampen the noise. I know at least one guy can still hear with them in because I've had a conversation with him while he had them in. He also sometimes wears slightly tinted glasses. These are both things you could do, like the hoody, that would not require an autism disclosure.

I do suggest that you implement small things like this when you can. The more comfortable you are, the more energy you will have to pass.



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11 Jun 2016, 1:39 am

Thank you. Energy is definitely important. In truth, I get through the day just fine now. It's when I get off work that things can get pretty rough and I find that some days I'm pretty emotionally and mentally fatigued after a full eight hour shift. After five straight days of that (sometimes more) it can take me a day just to fully recover. This can make it hard to get anything done when I'm not working or when I have split weekends.

I haven't found a way around this, yet. The little things have made it easier, at least. One thing I've considered is occasionally asking for three days off in a row. Probably about once a month. That'll require me to work six days the week before, but I can pull that off.


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SocOfAutism
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11 Jun 2016, 9:31 am

A lot of people do that- take an extra weekend day every so often. It does seem to help. And it's extremely common to spend all your off time recovering from work.

But also, I think with some simple adjustments a lot of people could have more time in their off hours to enjoy other pursuits. You should be able to have some energy left over to think about other things you might like to do before it's time to go back to work again.



AspieUtah
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11 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

In addition to all the great advice here, most state and local nondiscrimination laws include prohibitions of actions taken against employees (as well as tenants, customers and others) based on a perception of an employee being disabled, not merely the fact that the employee is disabled. In these cases, it would be possible to imply a disability without disclosing the fact of any disability, and still remain protected under the laws. So, you might want to search the Internet for your town, city, county and state nondiscrimination laws to determine whether you could imply a disability for the sake of improving your workplace while not disclosing.

You mentioned that you don't need the professional supports that might come from a disclosure, so this advice is built around that reality.


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06 Jul 2016, 6:28 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
In addition to all the great advice here, most state and local nondiscrimination laws include prohibitions of actions taken against employees (as well as tenants, customers and others) based on a perception of an employee being disabled, not merely the fact that the employee is disabled. In these cases, it would be possible to imply a disability without disclosing the fact of any disability, and still remain protected under the laws. So, you might want to search the Internet for your town, city, county and state nondiscrimination laws to determine whether you could imply a disability for the sake of improving your workplace while not disclosing.

You mentioned that you don't need the professional supports that might come from a disclosure, so this advice is built around that reality.


I wonder how many are perceived not as disabled, or different, but just as a pain in the ass? That can kill a career even quicker, sometimes.

My employer loves training. We have one training course called "How to Deal with Difficult Employees in the Workplace." I guess I'm in that category. I mean what I say, and I say what I mean -- and that apparently is a problem, even though I don't do so rudely but politely.

Lock me up, but only if you promise to throw away the key. (I was thinking about the 1966 movie King of Hearts today...) I was feeling desperately lonely for a community I never met, nor will, nor can. If "neurotypical" is a statistical net thrown over a sea of behaviors and biochemically activated electrical signaling networks, then we who are other are first and foremost data outliers. I prefer to dwell on the mind that develops on a neurologically different substrate, and on what is possible. "Out of the box" thinking? I couldn't get in that box if my life depended on it!

tl;dr: Rambling as self-therapy.



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07 Jul 2016, 12:37 am

It's all good, MountainTrails. Vent away!

If you do feel that way, it might be better in your situation to disclose. I'm in a pretty good place because of union protections and my ability to pass as NT. You might not have those luxuries; everyone's situation is different and you've got to do what makes the most sense in yours.


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08 Jul 2016, 2:26 pm

I have disclosed to my employers recently, at my cleaning job. The main reason is in case things change in my job later on. Currently, I have a very reasonable supervisor and I'm working on my own in buildings that are quiet and not too crowded. There's no guarantee either of these things will always be true...


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08 Jul 2016, 7:56 pm

AJisHere wrote:
It's started to annoy me how I feel I can't talk to my coworkers about my having autism. This is something that affects me heavily, but I worry that without going through all the hoops to disclose it to my employer I'll be shooting myself in the foot if I just casually mention it.

I'm not in any danger of losing my job; it's a union store and I've made myself pretty much indispensable. I get along well with my coworkers and have been praised on my interactions with customers. However, there's not zero risk; I do worry I might be "overlooked" for promotions or more desirable hours. If I don't officially disclose, this isn't actually discrimination in the eyes of the law, is it?

Should I just go through the paperwork and such and disclose to my employer? I don't actually need any accommodation, but it seems like it'd be good for covering my ass! :P


You're co-workers don't need to know unless you want them to know. I would warn you as I was warned when I mentioned this to my Clinical Psychologist don't go telling people without coming up with a battle plan with your therapist because believe me people will take it the wrong way and feel I am using autism as an excuse or thats the way they would see it... I took his advice but instead I bombarded my family with the information and they took it poorly making it seemed like I was using autism as an excuse.

So with that learning experience I took my experience a little differently with my employers. I informed the people who needed to know and provided my documentation.

With ADA Laws disclosing your disability can help you going forward but let's say they are about to Term you and the reason was due to your symptoms. You tell them last minute, under ADA they have the right to term you because you failed to disclosure your disability and to request accommodation before hand.

Employee interactions and issues you've had in the past are reasons to disclose because let's say an employee takes something you said the wrong way them knowing your condition can go a long way in saving your employment.

Believe me, no one is ever indispensable and the moment you keep thinking that what you'd don't factor in is the target on your back the boss has on you and ways to change your job to have another or others do it so you don't become one big cog that if you break everything breaks. I learned that the hard way.



HisShadowX
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08 Jul 2016, 8:08 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
In addition to all the great advice here, most state and local nondiscrimination laws include prohibitions of actions taken against employees (as well as tenants, customers and others) based on a perception of an employee being disabled, not merely the fact that the employee is disabled. In these cases, it would be possible to imply a disability without disclosing the fact of any disability, and still remain protected under the laws. So, you might want to search the Internet for your town, city, county and state nondiscrimination laws to determine whether you could imply a disability for the sake of improving your workplace while not disclosing.

You mentioned that you don't need the professional supports that might come from a disclosure, so this advice is built around that reality.



Incorrect

Example 19: Tom, a program director, has successfully controlled most symptoms of his bipolar disorder for a long period, but lately he has had a recurrence of certain symptoms. In the past couple of weeks, he has sometimes talked uncontrollably and his judgment has seemed erratic, leading him to propose projects and deadlines that are unrealistic. At a staff meeting, he becomes angry and disparaging towards a colleague who disagrees with him. Tom’s supervisor tells him after the meeting that his behavior was inappropriate. Tom agrees and reveals for the first time that he has bipolar disorder. He explains that he believes he is experiencing a recurrence of symptoms and says that he will contact his doctor immediately to discuss medical options. The next day Tom provides documentation from his doctor explaining the need to put him on different medication, and stating that it should take no more than six to eight weeks for the medication to eliminate the symptoms. The doctor believes Tom can still continue working, but that it would be helpful for the next couple of months if Tom had more discussions with his supervisor about projects and deadlines so that he could receive feedback to ensure that his goals are realistic. Tom also requests that his supervisor provide clear instructions in writing about work assignments as well as intermediate timetables to help him keep on track. The supervisor responds that Tom must treat his colleagues with respect and agrees to provide for up to two months all of the reasonable accommodations Tom has requested because they would assist him to continue performing his job without causing an undue hardship.


Practical Guidance: Ideally, employees will request reasonable accommodation before conduct problems arise, or at least before they become too serious.52 Although the ADA does not require employees to ask for an accommodation at a specific time, the timing of a request for reasonable accommodation is important because an employer does not have to rescind discipline (including termination) warranted by misconduct. Employees should not assume that an employer knows that an accommodation is needed to address a conduct issue merely because the employer knows about the employee’s disability. Nor does an employer’s knowledge of an employee’s disability require the employer to ask if the misbehavior is disability-related.

____________


Example 20: An employee informs her supervisor that she has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. A few months later, the supervisor asks to meet with the employee concerning her work on a recent assignment. At the meeting, the supervisor explains that the employee’s work has been generally good, but he provides some constructive criticism. The employee becomes angry, yells at the supervisor, and curses him when the supervisor tells her she cannot leave the meeting until he has finished discussing her work. The company terminates the employee, the same punishment given to any employee who is insubordinate. The employee protests her termination, telling the supervisor that her outburst was a result of her bipolar disorder which makes it hard for her to control her temper when she is feeling extreme stress. She says she was trying to get away from the supervisor when she felt she was losing control, but he ordered her not to leave the room. The employee apologizes and requests that the termination be rescinded and that in the future she be allowed to leave the premises if she feels that the stress may cause her to engage in inappropriate behavior. The employer may leave the termination in place without violating the ADA because the employee’s request for reasonable accommodation came after her insubordinate conduct.

SOURCE: https://www.eeoc.gov/facts/performance-conduct.html

SocOfAutism wrote:
I just submitted a draft of my thesis on this subject, and on the subject of autistic workers in general.

I have also spent some time researching Passing, which is a huge part of life on the spectrum. There has been a lot documented about other kinds of passing, such as race and sexual orientation passing, but almost nothing about autism spectrum passing.

It may become detrimental to your well-being to pass all the time at work. It would probably depend on how often it was an issue. If the topic came up a lot, if you LOOKED or ACTED autistic and had to actively conceal it, or if you were often bothered by sensory problems or highly social tasks that you couldn't get out of- this kind of environment eats away at most people. I would do some thinking about how big a deal "being autistic at work" is and that might tell you how much and to whom you should disclose.

I do not know about other countries, but in the United States, only a formal, medical documentation given to your boss and/or HR protects you under the ADA. You can be discriminated against for being autistic and you can be denied accommodations (legally) if you do not medically disclose. That's just how the ADA works. So you should do some thinking about that too.

If I were going to advise a personal friend of mine what to do in this circumstance, I would advise providing a medical diagnosis to HR and then sitting down and having an educational talk with your boss. I would mention it to your co-workers and immediately give your own, brief explanation of what autism is and how it applies to you. No long explanation, just a short description.

For example, you might say something like, "I am on the autism spectrum. It's not a big deal. It just means that I have to use more energy for social situations. That's why I'm not good on the phone." That wouldn't make anyone uncomfortable and they would remember it. They might ask a (possibly offensive) question, and you could answer. I would include statements like, "I'm normal. I just don't like loud noises." or "Just like you hate reports, I don't like meetings." They may not be suggesting that you are NOT normal, but you don't want to give anyone the opportunity to have weird thoughts about autism. These kinds of statements peppered into explanations builds a positive picture of autism to the people you have to be around every day.



^ This is great advice. I would only caution not to bombard them with info and possibly working with someone first on how to approach this because people do take things the wrong way.



AspieUtah
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08 Jul 2016, 8:33 pm

HisShadowX wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
In addition to all the great advice here, most state and local nondiscrimination laws include prohibitions of actions taken against employees (as well as tenants, customers and others) based on a perception of an employee being disabled, not merely the fact that the employee is disabled. In these cases, it would be possible to imply a disability without disclosing the fact of any disability, and still remain protected under the laws. So, you might want to search the Internet for your town, city, county and state nondiscrimination laws to determine whether you could imply a disability for the sake of improving your workplace while not disclosing.

You mentioned that you don't need the professional supports that might come from a disclosure, so this advice is built around that reality.

Incorrect....

Thank you!


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Diagnosed in 2015 with ASD Level 1 by the University of Utah Health Care Autism Spectrum Disorder Clinic using the ADOS-2 Module 4 assessment instrument [11/30] -- Screened in 2014 with ASD by using the University of Cambridge Autism Research Centre AQ (Adult) [43/50]; EQ-60 for adults [11/80]; FQ [43/135]; SQ (Adult) [130/150] self-reported screening inventories -- Assessed since 1978 with an estimated IQ [≈145] by several clinicians -- Contact on WrongPlanet.net by private message (PM)