army

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Personally, I think it's a great way to get started in life. Here are some of my reasons:
1) Once you're in, it's hard to get out (job security, hard to get fired :] )
2) GI bill pays for your college afterward, I think up to $65,000
3) Free housing, food, reasonable pay.
4) Mental and physical training. You'll most likely not be part of the obese crowd after joining. You'll also learn to take life more seriously.
The big one is the GI Bill. You can also take college courses in the army, I think they pay up to like 2000 dollars/year?

Reasons you shouldn't go:
1) You're hedonistic.
2) You want to become rich.
3) You're lazy.
4) You believe that the army is going to make you successful after.
What you become after service depends on YOU. There are plenty of fat people and poor people out of the military. Those who took the training seriously are fit and healthy. Those who were wise with their money put most of their money in their savings and are well off after.

DO NOT join the reserves. It's a joke. Do it only if you want to brag to your lady friends about being a soldier.

The casualty rate in Iraq is about half a percent (.4%, four out of one thousand) so dying isn't really an issue. For the Vietnam, Korean War, and WW2, the casualty rate was like 10% or so, which was pretty high (one out of 10 people died).

i would beg to differ on this point- one thing my 4 years in uncle sam's army taught me, is that one can easily get weeded-out at any step from MEPS to permanent party- all it takes is one "personality conflict" between any step in the command chain and one, and chapter discharge is but a few weeks away. not to mention "don't ask, don't tell" where anybody can drop a dime on anybody else and the victim gets on the greased skids for discharge almost as fast as one can say "i didn't do it!"

To be frank, I would not take career advice from anyone on this site, certainly not about the military.

I spent my military years aboard a nuclear submarine, plus I grew up in a military family. I know what the military life is like from my perspective, but that doesn't mean it would be the same for anyone else. Like any other career you can think of, the military has its positives and negatives.

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, however. Or at least, severely limited perspectives. The poster who said something to the effect that you "get nothing" is 100% completely wrong. The poster who commented on how "easy" it is to get discharged is completely wrong. The only people I ever saw get discharged before their time was up were the ones who simply could not adjust to military life. You really have to screw up bad to get tossed out. And those were very isolated cases. Thousands and thousands of others get through it just fine.

Others who complain about the bureaucracy and whatnot should probably take a look at the corporate world. Or even large universities. The military is a model of streamlined efficiency compared to those.

I'm not saying military life is a picnic, nor that it's for everyone. I agree that you should get the opinions of many people before making the decision, but the question is how do you do that, and who do you solicit? Talk to the recruiters to get the basics. They can fill you in on the fundamental details. But do remember that they're trying to recruit you. For more details of the actual day-to-day life, talk to people who have actually been there.

Talk to lifers as well as one-and-done. But above all, talk to people who know what they're talking about and who don't have an axe to grind (both of which appears to rule out most of the posters in this thread). Look at it this way ... if you were considering a career as a programmer, would you consult with those who hated programming or who had been fired from their last job? They're not going to give you the most unbiased perspective.

A military life can be an honorable one. It can be a fine career. Or it can also be miserable. Don't make the commitment too quickly. Get all the information you can, and don't be swayed by people who are either too gung-ho about it or too negative about it.

what do you call people who have physical defects/injuries that get them medically chaptered from the military? screw-ups? soldiers who got QMP'ed due to too much time between promotions- screw-ups? how 'bout gay folk who get finked-on by their sour ex-partners- screw ups? people who get stressed beyond their psychological/mental limits by browbeating superior officers- just more screw-ups? jeez louise. before i called anybody else "completely wrong" i would think about it first, if i were you. the only people who are completely wrong are those who look down their noses at others and call them completely wrong.
i suspect you were one of the hardcase officers/noncoms who considered it their primary military duty to weed out as many subordinates as they could. i frankly dreaded folk like you. i dreaded getting up in the AM and reporting for duty in the sure knowledge that we'd get grilled and cursed-at for the slightest things. i dreaded inspection formations where a loose button or smudged brass would equal 2 weeks of reporting to the CQ with my uniforms for inspection. i dreaded barracks white-glove inspections and the snide remarks of the inspecting officers/noncoms, counseling statements, et al.
to be frank, i would not take any advice from anybody who WAS in the military in any position of authority, other than the chaplains like the one who told my brother [during vietnam] that "you can't expect justice from an organization whose sole purpose is to commit mass murder!"

Last edited by auntblabby on 12 Apr 2010, 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

huh?

huh? please tell me what you mean, por favor?

I do not quite get what the poster ment

ok, you are making me feel really dumb
WHICH poster, please?

Well now I have to show that Stoneman's info is totally wrong

I spent 9 years USAR and also 8 as Union steward, officer, and other positions. After getting screwed in the military I made
a study of pay/benefits BEFORE I bother applying for a job.

Here is proof you GET NOTHING from the military unless you last 20 years.

About dot com US military
Military retirement pay is unlike civilian retirement pay systems. First and foremost, there is no "vesting" in the military retirement system. There is no special retirement accounts, no matching funds provision, no interest. You either qualify for retirement by honorably serving over 20 years in the military, or you do not. If you are discharged from the military with 19 years, 11 months, and 27 days of service, for example, you do not qualify for retirement pay

You can look at any other site you want. Same story.

As opposed to Federal law that applies to all US employers

Federal law puts a three-year limit on cliff vesting schedules in qualified retirement plans, such as a 401(k) or a 403(b).

Graded vesting: Graded vesting gives employees gradually increasing ownership of matching contributions as their length of service increases, resulting in 100% ownership.
For example, a five-year graded vesting schedule might grant 20% ownership after the first year, then 20% more each year until employees gain full ownership after five years. If they leave before five years are up, they get to keep only the percentage of their employer's matching contributions in which they are vested.

Federal law sets a six-year maximum on graded vesting schedules in retirement plans.

In other words, if you work at company "A" for 10 years, you get your FULL retirement.
If you spend 10 years in the Army, you GET NOTHING!

The military both enlisted and officer class is based on moving up or out. every level the of the pyramid is smaller. Everyone is kicked out or promoted, and you either go up or out.
If the guy just above you has 12 years to that all important 20 year letter, you can be sure you will never get his position for 12 years.
Positions are limited so people are kicked out all the time. If someone is retiring, then assuming you are #1, in scores and politics, then
you get the position and stay in. The military is full of people that just have a high enough position to stay in to get that 20 year letter.
They dont care about their job at all, just sit and wait for 20.

Universities/States have the best benefits of all. Look at TIAA_CREF and university (state) retirement systems. Even a janitor can be a fat cat at 55 and retire.

Bottom line is if you compare the military to all other pay and benefit systems. Military is the worst, even compared to Wal-Mart, with the exception of getting military disability.
As I said, if you can sue the military for disability, that is a check for life.

I worked with a guy for many years that collected $1800 month from Army disabiltiy AND got full state pay and benefits since Vietnam.
Now that was collecting some serious cash.

Suspect anything you like. I was not "hardcase". I was just another squid doing my job, like hundreds of thousands of others who somehow managed to get through their time without experiencing the trauma that you apparently believe was visited on you alone.

Grilled? Everybody was "grilled". White-glove inspections? Everybody had 'em. Inspection formations? Everybody had 'em. You weren't being singled out. Nobody likes those things any more than you did. I sure as hell didn't. But well, I don't know how to tell you this, but ... only a miniscule percentage of enlistees aren't able to get through those things without becoming so embittered by it. So what were you expecting when you enlisted?

And I didn't stay in the military longer than I had to. I got out the absolute microsecond my time was up.

I did point out, as if it needed pointing out, that military life is not for everyone. I respect that. I have no problem with anyone who declines to go into military service, whatever their reason. I lived through the Vietnam era. I knew guys who went to Canada. I knew guys who got "conscientious objecter" status. That was their choice and I respected it.

It's unfortunate your military experience was so negative, and I sympathize. But your experience was not the norm, my friend. Hundreds of thousands of other people get through it just fine.

Last edited by Stone_Man on 12 Apr 2010, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

You are correct about the retirement pay, and I agree with you that it's a lousy system if you don't put in your 20. But find me an industry where you can retire after 20 years.

And anyway, did you not know that before you enlisted?

And you must have forgotten about the tuition benefits on the GI Bill, low-interest home loans, VA medical centers, technical training, and the like, all of which I've happily taken advantage of. Why haven't you?

Neither I nor anyone else ever said military life would be considered a plum of a position by everyone. Some people like it a lot, some hate it a lot, most are somewhere in the middle. Just like every other job on earth.

But to say that you GET NOTHING, as you so capitalizingly put it, is utterly absurd and I repeat, 100% wrong.

And aside from all that, you know, there is this little thing of being of service to your country. Some people actually take that seriously, whether they make it a career or not.

The orginal one

the OP was:
"so id like to know is there anyone who is also in this phase?
im curently looking for not going since i will rather work and get apartment, i just need good reason"

it seems he was wanting at least one good reason for joining the military as opposed to sticking it out in the civvy world. i wished i could talk to him personally and help him decide which is best for him.

Must have nmisread something then, or was blitzed out

No other industry demands that you blow out your body in 20 years if you last that. Like a Army buddy of mine, blew out his knees in
a parchute jump one day, not disabled enough to collect when he was kicked out.

"And anyway, did you not know that before you enlisted? "

No I did not. I did not know how much the military screws over its people.

And you must have forgotten about the tuition benefits on the GI Bill, low-interest home loans, VA medical centers, technical training, and the like, all of which I've happily taken advantage of. Why haven't you?

Tuition is not paid for. First you must make and have extra money to pay the full tuition. Then you must spend 6-12months fighting the Army
bruocrates to get the money back. Then after all their college promises, they start pulling out all kinds of rules for things they dont pay for. So the
$40,000 for college in reality means about $3,000. LOL Military training is all useless, about 2% of it applies to civilian life. An A&P licence is one usefull thing a friend of mine got in the air force. VA and all that is only for full timers that serve more than 180 days. All Reservists are not allowed
a tour longer than 179 days to make sure we never get regular army bene's. Part of that second class treatment I mentioned.


"But to say that you GET NOTHING, as you so capitalizingly put it, is utterly absurd and I repeat, 100% wrong."

My buddy with busted knees got nothing but busted knees and VA rights that only cover his knees. His dream of military career was over, last I saw him he quit college. He had no money, could barely work or walk.
I get and will get NOTHING from 9 years of busting ass for USAR. No retirement, no pay, no bene's of any kind.

And aside from all that, you know, there is this little thing of being of service to your country. Some people actually take that seriously, whether they make it a career or not.[/quote]

Service to country ended with WW2 and Vietnam. Now it is about money only. Why get paid $600 a month in the army, when you can get $12,500 to $30,000 per month doing the same thing as a "private contractor" in Iraq. Its all for oil and profits these days, stop the lies please.
You need to do some research about what is going on in Iraq. Like Army techs training their $150,000yr replacements that are private contractors.
If I am going to risk my but for big oil, it is going to be for big $$$$$. Not some weak lie about "country".

Last I checked, Iraq never threatened USA. We have no reason to be there besides oil for corps profits.

I once looked at going to Iraq as a bomb dog handler. $200,000 per year contract. Beats a Generals pay any day.
All tax free too. But not for me, to many risks. No good being rich if you are dead. And another thing, If I was injured in Iraq, I would get
workers comp-disability when I got back too as a contractor, unlike all those Army suckers. Also with some investigation, the contracters have
a record of screwing over their people, so agian, not worth it.

A start to your needed reading
http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspirin ... 43637.html