What the hell is wrong with the world we live in?

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The trick is discerning between nonautistics who want to be lied to and nonautistics who want reality.

Sure, I can see than manipulation can be a means to an end of getting somewhere but I don't think it's essential to getting somewhere. I'm not comfortable with the idea of manipulation and probably no good at it although I would be surprised if I didn't already do it in lots of little ways I don't really think about. I think some people also respond to honesty and integrity and what could be more manipulative in winning praise and advocates than doing a job so well that you make yourself indespensible to whoever. Also, money talks, and there are many ways to come by money without a strategy of manipulation.

The latter group is harder to manipulate, but it's still very much possible, and not even necessarily that difficult. Once you spend some time analyzing human social interactions and behaviour, you notice how simple it is. I think us Aspies have the potential to be good at this stuff since, well, it's just another system for us to learn, isn't it?



Of course it's possible to succeed without manipulation, but even then, be wary of people manipulating you and bare in mind that by not doing it yourself, you're creating a disadvantage.

Why manipulate people who want reality? In Game Theory that would be trying to exploit someone playing game theoretically optimally - i.e., you're only exploiting yourself.

Because you can still make them believe what you're saying is reality. I absolutely do not understand game theory though, so perhaps you'd like to elaborate on that?

If they can accept the truth, what you say IS reality. Or a verbal description of it, though only Buddha types know the difference so don't worry about that.

If you want one manipulative trick that even psychopaths don't use: when selling a crazy person (i.e. a manipulable person) a story, assume the thing you're trying to have them believe and make the point of the story something completely unrelated. Just by engaging with the story (e.g. to refute it) they accept the world you're offering, including the lie you're selling. It's a remarkably simple yet for some reason unknown trick. Nonautistics (even psychopaths) always try to sell the lie directly. Sell a world, not a lie.

Last edited by fraac on 05 Jan 2012, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well that just makes no sense



That's a trick already used in advertising quite a bit, and I'm fairly sure psychopaths use it too. I mean I don't understand why they wouldn't, assuming it's as effective as you say.

In fact, surely every story with a moral does this too? I mean you create a fictional world only to implant some sort of idea you want the viewer to accept into the plot. That's basically what you've just described.

If someone can deal with reality why would you want them to believe anything else? It's suboptimal. You want to know the people who aren't scared of reality. Beautiful people. Those are your people, no game necessary. Crazy people you may need to manipulate (I haven't decided in general, but I've found it expedient in particular cases).

Second bit: I'm trying to think of an example but my imagination only works in realtime. You assume something that you want someone else to believe. You create a story from the world where your assumption is consistent. The story itself is far removed from the assumption. You appear to be an idiot for entertaining the story. In engaging with the story they accept the assumption. It's much simpler with an example, give me a while to think of one. They need to believe they're more socially smart than you. I think it's the foundation for a lot of textbook cons but almost nobody actually does those, but as autistics we're in a position to exploit our image.

But the game is where the fun is!



Yeah, this is done in a lot of stories already, I'm quite sure. Thing is, in practise, it's really rather obvious, so it only works on either really stupid people or kids, which is why similar techniques are present in kids' TV shows, movies, and so on.

You aren't understanding. When a crazy person believes they're smarter than you (this will be most people you interact with) they will gleefully seize upon the 'truth' behind your apparent confusion, but the whole world is an artifice seeded from a lie. Watch Matchstick Men: any con using a naif who gets 'exploited' is any autistic in most situations. Play to your strengths. Crazy people need lies, it doesn't matter if it's obvious, they'll always choose the lie. They're crazy.

Kids are far smarter than grownups, don't try to con kids. Con psychopaths, they're the most susceptible.

What you're saying really does make no sense now...

Think better.

I once compiled a list on another forum, when someone asked other members to write list of 10 things they regarded as truths. Here are the first three on my list:

I find this thread fascinating.

depressing. it is duelling memes between those with an altruistic bent versus the cynics. it is the golden rule versus the pyrite rule.