argument with job coach!

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whitrbbit, this is an issue as well.

Jamsey, another thing are you sure you have all of the facts? Can you please post your whole story so we have better context?

Jamey, when you argue, not only will people not listen to you when you argue, they will not want to be around you or help you either when you need it. Therapy is a good thing. But til then, heed some words of advice that my aunt gave me the last time I had a major meltdown, which was two years ago.

"sometimes people are going to say things that you aren't going to want to here. It is up to you to understand that people will tell you things because they feel it is important for you to hear them, and they might even have your best interests at heart. It is important for you to understand this, and to act accordingly with respect.

This is advice for when people are criticizing you.

I had to take this advice when I was in a horrible position and where I felt that people were criticizing me unfairly. Instead of lashing out, I thanked my supervisor for giving me the hard news and tried to do my job better according to her standards. It keep me from getting fired for another three or four months.

Therapy, still, is the best answer

If you do not mind I would like to make some additions to this. Jamey, you have to learn to pick your battles my friend. You have to know when to fight and when not to fight. I do have some experience with this but I am learning as well. Fnord is an extreme conservative type with an ISTJ personality. I have debated with him many things. There are a number of things I disagree with him especially about our culture.

Here is the thing. The culture does exist. It doesn't matter what reasoning and logic I have. Even though we're on opposite sides of many beliefs I have analyzed what he has said and continues to say. My conclusion is that his beliefs work for him. He has been successful in the workplace even though he is on the spectrum. How is Fnord successful. He simply follows the rules as given and does not attempt to figure out the underlying meaning, logic or reasoning behind. He simply follows it. If he does something wrong or someone says he does something wrong he take ownership of the problem. This is part of his personality type.

I have followed Fnord's way of doing things in different situations in my life and it has served me well. When Fnord says "Conform or Die" what he is saying is that you will have to do as people say no matter how contradictory or illogical something may seem to you. It is my opinion that our American culture is dysfunctional but you will have to try to accept certain things as is without trying to find the underlying meaning behind them.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISTJ.html

Look at Fnord's personality type. I believe the traits he has makes successful. Certain traits that you have like inquisitiveness and trying to find the underlying meaning you will have to tone that down and just accept things as they are.

This is a lesson I will convey to you. Sometimes you will find wisdom in your enemy's beliefs and actions.

I'm afraid she is right. Most people are not going to listen to your reasoning or your logic. Most people fall within a certain personality type. Sometimes you will have to just go along no matter how illogical and nonsensical it may seem.



I will reiterate this as well. Sometimes your interculator or those who are criticizing may have some wisdom. This is easier said than done but try to ignore how the message is delivered and concentrate on the content and context of the message itself. If they seem like they are talking down to you your best bet is to humble yourself and look at the contents and context of message itself. I will give you an example. Fnord can seem like the most close minded jerk around. Fnord, I mean no offense to you. I am just making a point to this kid and what I have learned from you myself. Analyze the content and context of what he is saying. Even if society(USA) is dysfunctional, I do it believe it is, I will still have to play ball. Personally, I do not like it but there is nothing I can do about so I will have to do certain things and you will have to as well. It sucks but most people will not listen and are not interested. You will have to play ball. Nothing says I can't debate it with people here on the forum. I will continue to do so but in the end I got to get to work.



Take her advice.



Again, Take her advice.



I respectfully disagree. To me, it is one possible answer but he may need a lot more like social skills training and rage and anger management.

Maybe I'm not understanding you, but I don't think this is always true. Arguing with people does not always push them away and make them stop listening to you -- I think it's more often disrespect that does those things.

I sometimes get very angry and argue with people, but "very angry" + "argument" doesn't automatically mean that I'm in a rage, or screaming at them, or that I'm being rude/harsh/disrespectful in any other way. Arguing can be done respectfully...for example, as part of giving helpful advice and discussion, people have been arguing respectfully with Jamesy and with each other on this thread.

Arguing with people is not always bad -- even if the person you're arguing with is your boss or some other person in a position of authority. Whether or not arguing is inappropriate or a bad idea depends on a lot of things, like:

• The situation -- for example, are you arguing with someone at work when you should instead be working...is the argument getting in the way of other things?
  
• What you're arguing about -- is it really important or are you arguing about something like whether or not the bluish-green wallpaper is more blue than green?
  
• Your relationship with the other person -- do they care about your opinion, how well do they know you, do they have the power to decide whether or not you get/keep a job or housing or something else important to you? What are the social rules that are part of your relationship with the other person?
  
• The other person -- their personality and how they react to having their ideas or actions questioned/challenged.
  
• How you are stating your side of the argument-- for example, are you being respectful or are you using insults/put-downs/cursing, are you yelling or are you speaking at a normal volume?
  
• Your intentions -- are you trying to force the other person to agree with you, are you trying to start a discussion to solve a problem, are you just trying to state your disagreement because you want/need the other person to know about it? Are you interested in what the other person has to say or only interested in what you have to say?

Not all arguments are fights -- and I don't think starting an argument is automatically the same thing as lashing out at someone.




If you felt like your job coach was putting you down or judging you unfairly, then it makes sense that you would want to stand up for yourself.

I'm not sure what made you feel like you needed to stand up for yourself, though... and your job coach might not have known either (the part where she was talking about accepting your Asperger's is extremely confusing -- she said "health issues" but I'm pretty sure she meant Asperger's). Like you said, there might have been a misunderstanding.

Oh, ok. I do see what you mean. I think that, usually, when I see something as arguing it is a really rude type of arguing. I do think that respectful arguing/debating can achieve things. Just out and out yelling/lashing out I find are less productive.

I very much agree.

I agree as well.

The thing is, she didn't attack you.
Autism encompasses a range of functioning levels. Some people with autism do need carers. Some need them full-time, and some need them for specific things that give them trouble- public transport being one possible area of difficulty. There is no shame in this.
Because she hadn't met you before, she had no way of knowing how independent you are. The only way for her to find out was by asking. A simple "No, I don't need a carer" would have answered her question without escalating the situation.