No one wants to work, or no one wants to work for 13 an hour

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rse92
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02 Sep 2023, 11:24 am

funeralxempire wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
If you say "no one" and there is one exception, the whole statement is false

If you say "people" and there are two exceptions, the whole statement is false


The fact that people do is distinct from whether or not they want to, so Sweetleaf's statement appears accurate.

No one wants to be paid less than their time is actually worth.
Find me one person who wants to be under-compensated.


One’s time is worth what the market will pay for it.

If you want a $25 an hour job, go find a $25 an hour job you are qualified for and apply to it.

That is the way the world works.



rse92
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02 Sep 2023, 11:28 am

At age 53 I stacked groceries in a Walmart for $9.75 an hour.

Did I complain about being under compensated? No, because $9.75 was the going rate for grocery stackers. And I needed a job, some job.

I can’t understand why someone would affirmatively choose not to work if they are ablebodied. If only out of self respect.



goldfish21
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02 Sep 2023, 1:11 pm

rse92 wrote:
At age 53 I stacked groceries in a Walmart for $9.75 an hour.

Did I complain about being under compensated? No, because $9.75 was the going rate for grocery stackers. And I needed a job, some job.

I can’t understand why someone would affirmatively choose not to work if they are ablebodied. If only out of self respect.

At this point in the USA there are more jobs available than job seekers so if they're choosing not to work a particular jobs it's likely because they're opting for one that pays better/is better (shorter commute, better benefits etc.) vs just deciding not to work at all.

But there are some people who do not/cannot work.


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blitzkrieg
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02 Sep 2023, 1:37 pm

rse92 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
If you say "no one" and there is one exception, the whole statement is false

If you say "people" and there are two exceptions, the whole statement is false


The fact that people do is distinct from whether or not they want to, so Sweetleaf's statement appears accurate.

No one wants to be paid less than their time is actually worth.
Find me one person who wants to be under-compensated.


One’s time is worth what the market will pay for it.

If you want a $25 an hour job, go find a $25 an hour job you are qualified for and apply to it.

That is the way the world works.


The problem is, 'the market' only caters to the whims of corporations and their profits, not to the end of a decent standard of living for people who are actually working.

'The working poor' are an increasingly sizeable element of developed, wealthy nations. And that is obviously, morally wrong.


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SabbraCadabra
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02 Sep 2023, 6:21 pm

rse92 wrote:
If you want a $25 an hour job, go find a $25 an hour job you are qualified for and apply to it.

Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

Especially for the small few of us on this site who have ASD. At least I think there are a couple of us here? Maybe one or two?


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Tim_Tex
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03 Sep 2023, 11:35 am

Add to the equation that there are entire metro areas where one must make $100,000+/year just to not be homeless, because house prices have risen much faster than incomes.

In NYC and SF, one must make $300,000/year.


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goldfish21
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03 Sep 2023, 12:30 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Add to the equation that there are entire metro areas where one must make $100,000+/year just to not be homeless, because house prices have risen much faster than incomes.

In NYC and SF, one must make $300,000/year.

Our housing is priced like that, but people typically only make tens of thousands/year, not $100k+.. which is why it's so severely unaffordable here. $100k incomes exist, but they're the exception, not the rule.. quite a low %.


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03 Sep 2023, 5:32 pm

Fnord wrote:
You say that no one wants to work for minimum wage?  Think again.  There are people who will accept that wage without hesitation.  As long as there are such people, minimum-wage jobs will be filled.  Only if every applicant turns down the employer's offer will the employer even consider raising the wage.
Well I guess that puts to rest the idea that minimum wage jobs are only for teens because apparently there are grown ass adults willing to accept them.
goldfish21 wrote:
Apply for, obtain, and work jobs that pay more than that. Leave jobs that offer $13.65/hr unfilled. When they go unfilled for long enough, those employers will have to increase the wage they're offering in order to attract applicants & retain employees.
Nice idea but there could be people so desperate they can't refuse $13.65 per hour. So long as those people exist the $13.65 per hour jobs will be filled and employers will keep offering that wage.


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GeekyFreak
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03 Sep 2023, 6:57 pm

rse92 wrote:
At age 53 I stacked groceries in a Walmart for $9.75 an hour.

Did I complain about being under compensated? No, because $9.75 was the going rate for grocery stackers. And I needed a job, some job.

I can’t understand why someone would affirmatively choose not to work if they are ablebodied. If only out of self respect.


I worked $8.90 when I was in my 20s. Did I complain? Yes. It afforded me a shed in a yard (no joke), and very little of anything else. Didn't have a car and walked 2 miles one way rain or shine then stood in front of a hot fryer and ovens for 8.5 hrs.

"That is nuts!" Yep. But friendly reminder many of these half a mil houses were once $20k.



goldfish21
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03 Sep 2023, 7:11 pm

1/2 mill houses? Not around here.. :lol: :(

Anyways: I got to chatting with a few kiters while waiting for the shuttle boat yesterday. I know a bunch of them work remotely from laptops so was curious what they do that they can do whenever, make money, then go kiting when the wind is up.

One’s an engineer working at carbon engineering nearby. (Carbon capture technology R&D)

Another is a software engineer who did a bunch of work managing servers before but recently took a role with some AI company.

And another manages Facebook and Google ads for people. That one kinda caught my ear a little as that industry has a much lower barrier to entry. Anyone can read marketing books and learn to write ad copy, post/schedule and budget ads, measure their success in converting views to clicks and clicks to sales.. change/improve, rinse & repeat. Bonus if you’re good with graphics editing for any images required, but not necessary if you’re resourceful enough to simply subcontract the work to someone else via fiverr or something.

Just a thought on one possible way to generate $ online.


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GeekyFreak
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03 Sep 2023, 8:03 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
1/2 mill houses? Not around here.. :lol: :(

Anyways: I got to chatting with a few kiters while waiting for the shuttle boat yesterday. I know a bunch of them work remotely from laptops so was curious what they do that they can do whenever, make money, then go kiting when the wind is up.

One’s an engineer working at carbon engineering nearby. (Carbon capture technology R&D)

Another is a software engineer who did a bunch of work managing servers before but recently took a role with some AI company.

And another manages Facebook and Google ads for people. That one kinda caught my ear a little as that industry has a much lower barrier to entry. Anyone can read marketing books and learn to write ad copy, post/schedule and budget ads, measure their success in converting views to clicks and clicks to sales.. change/improve, rinse & repeat. Bonus if you’re good with graphics editing for any images required, but not necessary if you’re resourceful enough to simply subcontract the work to someone else via fiverr or something.

Just a thought on one possible way to generate $ online.


My last job was online. I was a contracted FEMA worker lol.

Ive been offered a few but the background check/ training fees were really high.

A few years ago I had another temp gov job that reimbursed background checks ($35) and training was provided. Last company I interviewed charged $150 non reimbursable but training was free. That was the cheapest one. Had another one say $200 background and $300 for training. They were commission positions too 8O



goldfish21
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03 Sep 2023, 11:40 pm

Lol pay them $500 for a commissioned sales job ? :lol: That right there is no they make their money.. by scanning new recruits, not actually selling anything.


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MatchboxVagabond
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03 Sep 2023, 11:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
I could go into a long description about how even workers' labor is subject to "Supply & Demand", but the bottom line would be this: Employers are not obligated to pay more than what is required by law, especially when the labor being provided requires only that the worker be of legal age, legally entitled to work, and capable of performing the labor.

Employers are not required by law to provide more training than that which is necessary to safely and legally perform the labor.

If you are one of hundreds of workers applying for a single job, each of whom has to offer only the same capabilities as all the rest, you will be offered the same wage as all the rest.  The employer will hire the first person who agrees to perform the needed labor for a specific wage.  Anyone who turns down the offered wage will likely not be hired.

Simple.

You say that no one wants to work for minimum wage?  Think again.  There are people who will accept that wage without hesitation.  As long as there are such people, minimum-wage jobs will be filled.  Only if every applicant turns down the employer's offer will the employer even consider raising the wage.

Now, there are two basic ways around this dilemma:

1. If you want a higher wage, offer something more than what all the rest can offer -- certified technical skills, for example -- when all the rest have no such skills to offer.  This is called "Common Sense".

2. The workers own the means of production, and share the profits equally among themselves.  This is called "Socialism".

The choice is yours.

Or we could simply fix the tax code to disincentivize the hoarding of great sums of money. There's no reason why making more than $10m a year should result in further earnings being taxed at 90%. Which won't happen because of how corrupt the whole system is.



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03 Sep 2023, 11:58 pm

GeekyFreak wrote:
rse92 wrote:
At age 53 I stacked groceries in a Walmart for $9.75 an hour.

Did I complain about being under compensated? No, because $9.75 was the going rate for grocery stackers. And I needed a job, some job.

I can’t understand why someone would affirmatively choose not to work if they are ablebodied. If only out of self respect.


I worked $8.90 when I was in my 20s. Did I complain? Yes. It afforded me a shed in a yard (no joke), and very little of anything else. Didn't have a car and walked 2 miles one way rain or shine then stood in front of a hot fryer and ovens for 8.5 hrs.

"That is nuts!" Yep. But friendly reminder many of these half a mil houses were once $20k.

My parents paid something like $26k for their house. Last I checked it was being valued at $700k or thereabouts.



SabbraCadabra
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04 Sep 2023, 5:38 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
1/2 mill houses? Not around here.. :lol: :(

Here in West Michigan, $500k sounds about average right now for a decent-to-good house, in a good neighborhood, that doesn't need tens of thousands of dollars worth of repairs.

Anything selling for pre-pandemic prices usually looks like it needs to be bulldozed. Somehow, someone always manages to flip them. I can't imagine that's legal in any way.

goldfish21 wrote:
Another is a software engineer who did a bunch of work managing servers before but recently took a role with some AI company.

And another manages Facebook and Google ads for people.

Yup, that sounds about right. Seems like the only way to make a decent amount of money in this life is to find something morally reprehensible.

Or sell drugs.

Or become a surgeon.

Or just inherit the money.


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04 Sep 2023, 5:43 pm

SabbraCadabra wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
1/2 mill houses? Not around here.. :lol: :(

Here in West Michigan, $500k sounds about average right now for a decent-to-good house, in a good neighborhood, that doesn't need tens of thousands of dollars worth of repairs.


An average house in the area I'm in (Southern Ontario) is $1.5 million. 3x what you're describing.


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