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coconapple
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20 May 2010, 8:01 pm

Regarding: "Why don't you want to work? Then you are not challenging yourself!"

I beg to differ! Most jobs that I, and I daresay, most of us have had are NOT challenging in any way. If you were able to get a good education, or somehow were able to get a great job, good for you, but this is not the case for most of us, and it's not from lack of trying to find said awesome jobs!

Lets see. When I have been unemployed, I have:
* Had my own slot in the local radio station, and I learned a lot.
* Took up carpentry, remodeling, and lots of frugal DIY.
* Learned Knitting.
* Volunteered at the local library, because.. well.. I'm crazy about libraries, and I wanted to see what it would be like working there! They wouldn't have had the money to pay me, and they were not in need of an extra employee, but they let me learn.
* Learned to be an AMAZING cook.
* Learned to be an AMAZING baker.
* Learned a programming language that I wanted to learn for a long time, but I hadn't enough stress-free time to learn it.
* Learned how to make some really nice clothes, purses, and then my family and friends requested them as their gifts for Christmas!
* I learned how to "reverse" my type II diabetes with food, and
* I had time to figure out what exercise I needed

I would have never been able to challenge myself so much, if I had been employed at a dead-end job. Trust me, I had tried before.

Quote:
I am proud to say it too! When you have sensory issues, anxiety/panic/depression, social difficulties, and all the other problems that occur when NTs are around I am proud to say I don't want to do it!

Gee, I take offense. I'm an NT, and I have sensory issues, anxiety/panic/depression/social difficulties/horrible clumsiness too!

So what now? Tax myself an a**hole tax?


Quote:
I am more than happy to take NT's tax money to pay for my disability checks and medicaid. To quote the movie Fight Club, "I call it an a**hole tax".

NTs are only about 12.5% of all people, so why do you only want disability tax money from them? What's so wrong with NTs? If I may say so myself, they are not any more a**holes than SJs, SPs or NFs!



Last edited by coconapple on 20 May 2010, 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

makuranososhi
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20 May 2010, 8:43 pm

You're confusing MBTI terminology with AS/NT as differentiating terms between Autistic Spectrum and Neuro-Typical.

If you're incapable of working, then that is one thing; if you are choosing not to work and live in a fashion I would consider more parasitic than community-oriented, than that is another. My work history is as varied and curious as they come; I managed to learn my interests through my jobs, which made the whole process easier. There is nothing wrong with being on disability - except for the fact that the benefits don't allow the person to adequately survive - but there is a problem with abusing the system and expecting others to pay your way.


M.


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cyb0rg
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21 May 2010, 3:29 am

@ "cyanide" and makuranososhi:

Since you both seem to be intent upon being repetitive, I will repeat myself too. There are a lot of people who are working who do not want to work, why should people on disability not want to work as well? Are you telling me you wake up every single day happy and eager to go to work? I have never known one single human who could make that claim, but when a disabled person says "I don't want to go to work" I guess it's a sin!

So I will put this in yet *another* way and maybe you will understand the intent of this thread. A lot of people seem to have double standards when it comes to working and "doing their part". Most humans grumble and b***h when they wake up because they don't want to have to go off and work all day and put up with people's BS. If you are one of those people who found the perfect job then congratulations, but I sincerely doubt you are. Step down off your pedestal and stop pretending that you are better than anybody else, especially disabled people who physically and/or mentally CAN'T put up with a day to day job.

Makuranososhi You claim to have undiagnosed AS, and 'cyanide', you claim to have diagnosed AS yet neither of you cannot grasp the concept that it can be crippling to some people to the extent that they cannot have a normal life. I suppose then those people who cannot have a normal life do not deserve to be happy in any situation or find any way to cope with their pain. I suppose those people deserve to suffer even more that they already do and deserve to feel ashamed. I suppose if a person in such a situation claims they feel relieved that they don't HAVE to be forced to do something that is painful for them they should be put in their place and finger wagged and chewed out and punished.

I know where this mentality comes from. You have been spoon-fed a bunch of lies since you were born and conditioned to be a good consumer by companies who want to sell you on a way of life. They don't bother selling you their product, because once you engage in the way of life presented to you as the proper way to live then you will buy their product anyway. When the automobile was first invented, nobody wanted one. They had to convince people they needed one in order to get them to buy one. Admit it, you have fallen prey to a mind virus that has been set loose on us which is so powerful and convincing that you have to preach it and convince everybody else to think the same way and become angry and full of spite and disdain at anybody who cannot be convinced.

You want to out me as a fraud you say? Fine, I have outed you as sheeple.



cubedemon6073
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21 May 2010, 7:19 am

cyb0rg wrote:
@ "cyanide" and makuranososhi:

Since you both seem to be intent upon being repetitive, I will repeat myself too. There are a lot of people who are working who do not want to work, why should people on disability not want to work as well? Are you telling me you wake up every single day happy and eager to go to work? I have never known one single human who could make that claim, but when a disabled person says "I don't want to go to work" I guess it's a sin!

So I will put this in yet *another* way and maybe you will understand the intent of this thread. A lot of people seem to have double standards when it comes to working and "doing their part". Most humans grumble and b***h when they wake up because they don't want to have to go off and work all day and put up with people's BS. If you are one of those people who found the perfect job then congratulations, but I sincerely doubt you are. Step down off your pedestal and stop pretending that you are better than anybody else, especially disabled people who physically and/or mentally CAN'T put up with a day to day job.

Makuranososhi You claim to have undiagnosed AS, and 'cyanide', you claim to have diagnosed AS yet neither of you cannot grasp the concept that it can be crippling to some people to the extent that they cannot have a normal life. I suppose then those people who cannot have a normal life do not deserve to be happy in any situation or find any way to cope with their pain. I suppose those people deserve to suffer even more that they already do and deserve to feel ashamed. I suppose if a person in such a situation claims they feel relieved that they don't HAVE to be forced to do something that is painful for them they should be put in their place and finger wagged and chewed out and punished.

I know where this mentality comes from. You have been spoon-fed a bunch of lies since you were born and conditioned to be a good consumer by companies who want to sell you on a way of life. They don't bother selling you their product, because once you engage in the way of life presented to you as the proper way to live then you will buy their product anyway. When the automobile was first invented, nobody wanted one. They had to convince people they needed one in order to get them to buy one. Admit it, you have fallen prey to a mind virus that has been set loose on us which is so powerful and convincing that you have to preach it and convince everybody else to think the same way and become angry and full of spite and disdain at anybody who cannot be convinced.

You want to out me as a fraud you say? Fine, I have outed you as sheeple.


Cyborg, from my perceptions I believe the only way we spectrumites will be accepted at all is we're going to have to challenge other people's perceptions, values, and beliefs about things. There are two methods I use. One is the socratic method. The other is to take their beliefs to their conclusion. http://ultimatesuperset.blogspot.com/20 ... forms.html

I believe the ultimate question is not whether we can fit in or we can't fit in but SHOULD we fit in it? If there are certain things that are repulsive to us that certain people do to get a job like lying, cheating, and stealing should we do that? Can we get any kind of job without doing these things. Can we be completely honest in our society at all? If not, we need to ask ourselves should we try to fit in not whether we can or can't.

Cyborg, will you continue to read my blog? Cyborg, I"ve come up with a new philosophy called dynamic honesty.
http://ultimatesuperset.blogspot.com/se ... ic+honesty

Will you help me to change the world cyborg? Will you help me to keep refining dynamic honesty and get it closer and closer to infinity. Will you try to help me to implement this around the world?



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21 May 2010, 9:51 am

I used to think it was my duty to have a job and "earn a living" until my father and grandfather lost their jobs when the company they both worked for went under. Both of them got royally screwed in the legal clusterfu*k that followed, especially my grandfather who lost almost half of his pension and has been scratching to make ends meet for 12 years now.

This is a man who had been continuously working since he was 14 until he was forced into early retirement at 53, that's 39 years of hard work with nothing to show for it except an income that doesn't even match the average income of the chronically unemployed in this country.

So yeah, my will to work has dwindled considerably, along with my trust of the system. I've been mostly unemployed since I left highschool and I wouldn't lose any sleep if that didn't change.



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21 May 2010, 10:40 am

cyb0rg wrote:
Makuranososhi You claim to have undiagnosed AS, and 'cyanide', you claim to have diagnosed AS yet neither of you cannot grasp the concept that it can be crippling to some people to the extent that they cannot have a normal life. I suppose then those people who cannot have a normal life do not deserve to be happy in any situation or find any way to cope with their pain. I suppose those people deserve to suffer even more that they already do and deserve to feel ashamed. I suppose if a person in such a situation claims they feel relieved that they don't HAVE to be forced to do something that is painful for them they should be put in their place and finger wagged and chewed out and punished.

I know where this mentality comes from. You have been spoon-fed a bunch of lies since you were born and conditioned to be a good consumer by companies who want to sell you on a way of life. They don't bother selling you their product, because once you engage in the way of life presented to you as the proper way to live then you will buy their product anyway. When the automobile was first invented, nobody wanted one. They had to convince people they needed one in order to get them to buy one. Admit it, you have fallen prey to a mind virus that has been set loose on us which is so powerful and convincing that you have to preach it and convince everybody else to think the same way and become angry and full of spite and disdain at anybody who cannot be convinced.

You want to out me as a fraud you say? Fine, I have outed you as sheeple.

Well, "cyb0rg", I never said that nobody with AS can't lead a normal life. I just said that your story specifically has more holes in it than swiss cheese. There are people who have such bad anxiety, that they can't even post on a forum like this one. I could see why those people wouldn't be able to work...

Then I don't even know where on earth you're getting this "consumerist sheeple" crap from :lmao:. First of all, you have no basis that would show that I'm a consumerist. Second of all, I don't know how you could call me a "sheeple" since I don't even fit in with the mainstream AS crowd.



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21 May 2010, 10:55 am

cyb0rg wrote:
. I have two college degrees and an awful lot of skills that I refuse to share with society. .


"Refuse"? That's why you're being called out as a fraud. That and using the term "sheeple" for people who have jobs. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't".



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21 May 2010, 11:55 am

*shakes head* My diagnostic status reads that, as I have explained elsewhere, is because I don't have an official diagnosis written in my chart, but the consensus of two doctors in agreement. But nice try to use something unrelated to diminish the value of what I am saying. I don't like working, I don't like what I experience, but to have the life I want - I have to work. That doesn't translate to desire for any consumption, as you inaccurately infer, but to provide for my family and my confidence. As you are not my family, appear capable of work as you have said you refuse to work and will not share your education - not that you can't work - and celebrate living off others, I have no interest in supporting you as there are other people who have a greater need. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them sheeple; your behavior, however, is growing offensive.


M.


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21 May 2010, 12:50 pm

I felt that way, for a very long time, and than I've decided to start working, two summers, ago.


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coconapple
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21 May 2010, 1:28 pm

Quote:
There are a lot of people who are working who do not want to work, why should people on disability not want to work as well?

People who ARE disabled, or people who claim they are?

Quote:
Are you telling me you wake up every single day happy and eager to go to work? I have never known one single human who could make that claim

I do know a few people that truly are excited to go to work when they wake-up: My sister, my father, my boyfriend, and my neighbor.


Quote:
but when a disabled person says "I don't want to go to work" I guess it's a sin!

I know that feeling all too well, but you really have to be disabled to be offended by it...! Hating NTs and not wanting to share your skills with others is NOT disability! It's madness x-D
People are pissed because people that claim disability often are just being lazy or looking for a way out.
Like my neighbor who ermm... "accidentally" broke his arm, healed, then broke his leg, so he could claim sick time.
That's not to say I don't know people who legitimately need disability; I do know quite a few, and have no problem with it.


Quote:
Makuranososhi You claim to have undiagnosed AS, and 'cyanide', you claim to have diagnosed AS yet neither of you cannot grasp the concept that it can be crippling to some people to the extent that they cannot have a normal life.

I know this was not directed at me, but I'll asnwer. I do have crippling issues.
You still need to be awarded disability benefits. I doubt very much the government will let you. I don't think anxiety, panic, depression, social difficulties, horrible clumsiness count for disability. I KNOW very much that it can be very disabling, BUT the government doesn't think so. I think they only award disability if you have full blown autism? So... how are you going to get income, if you don't want to work, and you can't get disability.


Quote:
When the automobile was first invented, nobody wanted one. They had to convince people they needed one in order to get them to buy one.

Yeah, back in the days they didn't really need one, but nowadays it's kind of imperative to have one, at-least to KNOW someone who has one.



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21 May 2010, 1:54 pm

cyb0rg wrote:
Makuranososhi You claim to have undiagnosed AS, and 'cyanide', you claim to have diagnosed AS yet neither of you cannot (nice double negative - M.)grasp the concept that it can be crippling to some people to the extent that they cannot have a normal life. I suppose then those people who cannot have a normal life do not deserve to be happy in any situation or find any way to cope with their pain. I suppose those people deserve to suffer even more that they already do and deserve to feel ashamed. I suppose if a person in such a situation claims they feel relieved that they don't HAVE to be forced to do something that is painful for them they should be put in their place and finger wagged and chewed out and punished.


Not being able to put up with certain things is not necessarily a disability. Life is pain, and anyone who says otherwise is trying to sell you something, in my book. Finding the moments encased within, that makes life worth living. Being alive also comes with responsibilities; if you cannot fend for yourself, it is important to find a structure to support you. Expecting and demanding it from others is another thing entirely. As there seems to be an underlying current in your response that is not clear, what exactly is your agenda in proclaiming pride in hoarding your intellect and inflicting yourself upon others?


M.


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21 May 2010, 2:03 pm

cyb0rg wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
Unfortunately, you are so far off that I'm not sure where to begin. But let's start with where your money comes from - there isn't some "NT" money pool where your income is derived. You're taking my tax dollars, and I find your comments offensive to my own efforts. While I don't want to work, and struggle with it, I've managed to be self-employed twice-over and find a way. And yes, the comorbids and related issues to being on the spectrum can be debilitating... but to achieve what I want in life, it won't come if I treat the world as an economic parasite on a larger organism. Sacrifice is part of life... personally, I find the glib manner in which you treat the situation rather repulsive. If you can't work, then fine... but given what appears to be gloating and your apparent 'decision' in the matter, from my perspective, I would have some questions and doubts.


M.


Cool, I am glad you feel that way, but you missed the part where my anger is focused on people who think that just because somebody is on disability makes them a leech. One of my first achievements as an autistic was to learn not to give a sh** what people think about me.


You are being a leech if you refuse to work because you don't want to, and are happy to let others pay your way instead.

I think Makuronososhi's point is very valid. I don't pay taxes yet, but I sure as hell don't want to be paying pocket money to you when I do simply because you 'refuse' to share your education and contribute back to society.

If you physically or mentally can't contribute, fair enough, but the fact that you are acting all smug and delighted that you are 'milking the NTs' is despicable.

I don't know what you mean by 'NT' either, because a lot of people paying taxes towards your support have their own health burdens, both physically and mentally, yet still manage to drag their sorry asses out of bed each morning to support themselves and their families as well.

If you are going to sit merry at someone elses expense, you should at least have the decency to be grateful to them for it, whether you feel you 'deserve' your free meals or not.



cyb0rg
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21 May 2010, 3:27 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Will you help me to change the world cyborg? Will you help me to keep refining dynamic honesty and get it closer and closer to infinity. Will you try to help me to implement this around the world?


Unfortunately I don't think the world will ever accept such a thing, just take a look at some of the people posting in this thread. A lot of people are lost causes and will never figure out this sort of thing. It's casting your pearl before swine. The truth can be right in their faces and they wouldn't know it or would refuse to believe it. It's really not worth the effort to do anything more than speak to those who are willing to listen. Christ himself wasn't able to talk sense into the people who landed him on the cross.



Last edited by cyb0rg on 21 May 2010, 4:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

cyb0rg
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21 May 2010, 3:29 pm

Janissy wrote:
cyb0rg wrote:
. I have two college degrees and an awful lot of skills that I refuse to share with society. .


"Refuse"? That's why you're being called out as a fraud. That and using the term "sheeple" for people who have jobs. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't".


Learn to read.


makuranososhi wrote:
But nice try to use something unrelated to diminish the value of what I am saying.

M.


Yeah it's not like I am stooping to your level or anything. Besides you managed to diminish everything you said all by yourself, you don't need my help.

coconapple wrote:
I know this was not directed at me, but I'll asnwer. I do have crippling issues.
You still need to be awarded disability benefits. I doubt very much the government will let you. I don't think anxiety, panic, depression, social difficulties, horrible clumsiness count for disability. I KNOW very much that it can be very disabling, BUT the government doesn't think so. I think they only award disability if you have full blown autism? So... how are you going to get income, if you don't want to work, and you can't get disability.


Well it took them four years to approve my mother for it, and she is bipolar. I applied and got it in two months. If you read the eligibility requirements you will find that you can get on disability for any one of the disorders you listed. Anxiety, panic, depression and social difficulties are all listed, but I am not sure about horrible clumsiness. If you are crippled by your issues I encourage you to apply. Just ask your doctors to write you letters saying you are not able to work because of your issues, that's all you really need.

Lene wrote:

If you are going to sit merry at someone elses expense, you should at least have the decency to be grateful to them for it, whether you feel you 'deserve' your free meals or not.


You must have missed the part where I thanked Uncle Sam. Maybe you should be thanking me for all the years I paid my taxes into the system and paid for your school, libraries, postal system, police and military. Or perhaps you should feel bad for accepting those services, after all you must be a loser if you're going to leech off everybody and not teach yourself, get your own books, deliver your own mail, defend your own land or enforce the law in your neighborhood yourself.



Last edited by cyb0rg on 21 May 2010, 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Janissy
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21 May 2010, 4:00 pm

cyb0rg wrote:
Janissy wrote:
cyb0rg wrote:
. I have two college degrees and an awful lot of skills that I refuse to share with society. .


"Refuse"? That's why you're being called out as a fraud. That and using the term "sheeple" for people who have jobs. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't".


Learn to read.
.


I read all your claims that you can't work. They are rendered a lot less plausible by your gloating that you refuse to share your knowledge and skills and calling people who work "sheeple". It makes it sound like you are not working out of choice, not necessity and that people who do work are just suckers.

Disability fraud exists.



cyb0rg
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21 May 2010, 4:19 pm

Janissy wrote:
cyb0rg wrote:
Janissy wrote:
cyb0rg wrote:
. I have two college degrees and an awful lot of skills that I refuse to share with society. .


"Refuse"? That's why you're being called out as a fraud. That and using the term "sheeple" for people who have jobs. There is a difference between "can't" and "won't".


Learn to read.
.


I read all your claims that you can't work. They are rendered a lot less plausible by your gloating that you refuse to share your knowledge and skills and calling people who work "sheeple". It makes it sound like you are not working out of choice, not necessity and that people who do work are just suckers.

Disability fraud exists.


Well I meant that I refuse to share my talents with anybody at all. even fromhome (if I could make money with them). And I wasn't calling everybody sheeple, just the two people who were being asses in this thread. If you are offended it's your own problem and has nothing to do with me, it's all in your head.