Programming job with just a certification?

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Warning! This thread is very long and may induce a coma if read all at once…
I have labeled each section and put my actual question in the first post…
that way you can skip over the details you don't want to read…
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED… lol
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Hello,
This is my first post on this site.
I did search first, but didn't find anything that directly answered my question.

My Question
I am wanting to know if\how it is possible to get a programming job with only a certification.
I do not currently hold a certification, but am interested in pursuing one since it is something I can gain through independent study. I am interested in the Microsoft certifications (for example MCTS or MCPD).
Getting a 4-year degree is simply not an option for me at this time for reasons that I will not waste your time explaining.

I know that some of you probably don't like the term "programming" because you might be an engineer that does much more than just write code.
Software engineering is too far removed from coding, for my liking though. I know that I am probably living in a dream world here, but I would very much like to find a job that is mostly coding and minimizes working on a team and interacting with clients (as much as is possible anyway).

Some Facts About Me

1. I am 31 years old
2. I have Asperger's. I haven't seen the need to seek an official diagnosis as there is not a single doubt in my mind.
3. I am currently employed by a major provider of technology for restaurants in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex.
4. I work on their help desk (call center environment).
5. Before that I was an IT Consultant for a small firm for over 3.5 years.
6. I gained an enormous amount of experience there; ranging from end-user email problems to setting up servers and even some VoIP phone systems (up to 100 handsets).
7. I would probably still be there, but the owner of the company wasn't very good at managing the company and I got laid off when the economy went south.
8. Before that I worked on the Help Desk of a major retail chain for over 4.5 years. I supported their point of sale equipment over the phone.
9. Before that I worked about 4 years in various odd jobs (mostly retail).
10. I also hold an associate of arts degree (liberal arts).
11. I have also completed about 12 hours of freshman level software engineering courses.
12. I consider myself to be among the fortunate aspies of the world, even though I have had some extremely difficult years.
    
    • I have been continuously employed since 1996
    • I have never been fired from a job (though I probably should have been on at least one occasion).

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For those that may be interested, I have included some
additional information in the next post about my experience, background, and
also about how I became interested in programming. It's not necessarily
required information for answering my question above, but may help you to
understand a little more about me and where I am coming from.
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Last edited by sbarne3 on 10 Jan 2010, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

My Start in Programming
My first "exposure" to programming was as a 7 or 8 year-old kid. I would sit in front of our Commodore 64 for hours typing in the various programs that were printed in Compute!'s Gazette magazine. I really gained nothing (except frustration) from this experience as I understood very little of what I was typing in and of course I would inevitably miss a character somewhere and would have to start all over when it didn't run.

College Life
Even though my fascination (ok, let's call it what it is... obsession) with computers continued from then on, it wouldn't be until my 2nd year of college, when I took 'Intro to Programming' (Pascal) at a local junior college, that I gained any real exposure to programming.
Something "clicked" and I knew then that this was what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I couldn't explain it to anyone, I just knew that programming was very similar to my own thought processes and it came very easy for me. There was only one problem... I did not do well in school and ended up dropping out in frustration. I would actually do very well for the first 2-4 weeks of each semester, but invariably my obsessions outside of school would distract me from doing my assignments and I would fall behind.
By some miracle (and a lot of pushing from my mom), I graduated with an Associate of Arts degree in liberal arts (pretty much useless as I found out). I did go on to the university level for a couple of semesters and even took about 12 hours of software engineering courses (Intro to C Programming, Intermediate C Programming, etc.). I did well in those classes without even trying, but I hated every minute of it! After that, I dropped out and haven't been back since (that was in 2002).

Real World Experience
Since programming has never been included in the job description of any of the positions I have held over the years, I have had to look for ways to work it into my professional life.
I have often used my personal time to develop small utilities that I thought would benefit my team.
I am currently finishing up a contact import utility for Microsoft Office Communicator (there is no built in utility that is accessible to the end user). I am utilizing the communicator automation api and C# to enable this functionality.
I have also setup some fairly complex word macros using vba and some fairly complex access databases as well.

My One Paid Project
I have had the opportunity to complete one project while being paid.
It was when I was a consultant. We were installing a 100 handset VoIP phone system at a busy auto dealership and I was the project lead (what a nightmare that was! But that is another story altogether)
Anyway… The handsets would auto-configure themselves by downloading a set of configuration files from the server. Some of the basic settings that applied to each handset were stored in a single file that all handsets could use, but some of the more advanced settings were in the individual handset files and they had to be edited by hand.
Seeing that this was a very inefficient and error-prone process (plus the fact that I was itching to use my programming skills in a professional capacity), I decided to automate the process.
In the product's defense, it did come with a very limited file generator, but changing any advanced settings still required editing each of the files by hand. The risk of stale configuration files was high due to the "human factor".
What I ended up doing was creating a database to store the settings (with a web interface for easy maintenance). I then setup a rewrite engine to redirect the requests to a php script that would generate the files on the fly based on the current settings in the database.
So to put it simply… The handset requested the config files. That request was detected by the server which then generated the requested files and fed them to the handset. So as long as the settings in your database were correct, then there was no risk of a handset downloading a stale configuration.

About My Current Job
I both love and hate (mostly hate) my current job. I love the technical aspects of the job, but I hate answering phones.
Since the company I work for has a vast array of complex products, I learn something new everyday and as a result, I am never bored. This is a very good thing for me (bad things happen when I get bored...).
One of the main reasons I accepted this position (which was somewhat of a step down from my consultant position) was that I was hoping to be able to move up the ranks, so to speak, and into a position on their software development team. I was told that support was the central hub of the company and that it was the inroad to the company. I was told that others had advanced from support to development before me. What they didn't tell me was that you have to be there for two full years before they will even consider letting you move into another department (I have been there for a little less than one year).

Things I Love(d) About My Job
When I found that out that I would have to wait two years before I could move to another department, I was disappointed, but I determined that I would stick it out for several reasons:

1. The pay isn't bad (actually more than I was making as a consultant).
2. I was very impressed with the management style:
   
   • All of the supervisors and lower management tend to lead by example. They are not afraid to answer the phones right along side the rest of us.
   • Most of them don't even have offices. They work in cubicles with the rest of us.
   • All of management (even upper management) communicated with us very clearly and often. We always knew what was coming ahead of time (very important to an aspie).
   • Management treated us like adults. They didn't micromanage us.
3. Advancement (within support at least) didn't seem to be based solely on seniority like at other companies I had worked at.
   
   • The same goes for getting preferred shifts. They don't do "shift bids" and the shift you end up with has more to do with the need of the business than seniority.
4. The training was spectacular! I spent 5 weeks in actual classroom training before they even let me take a call by myself! OK, being back in classroom wasn't so great for me, but I was impressed, none the less that they valued the quality of support enough to not just throw a rookie on the phones without at least some background information to build on.
5. We utilize an elaborate, custom built, remote management system that is installed on every server and every terminal that we send out, so we can (most of the time) just connect to whatever machine is having an issue and fix it for them. (see more about this in the sidebar at the bottom of this post)

All of this made for a pretty good working environment (even for an aspie)... as much as a call center environment can be called, "good".
The problem is that most of the good things about my job have since gone away.
I feel trapped because the only jobs I am qualified for are help desk/IT related which puts me right back in a situation like the one I am in currently.
I'm sure there are many here who have faced similar situations... What did you do about it?
I am hoping that someone can offer me some words of wisdom.

Thank you in advance,

Steven

Sidebar: My Tech Support Rant
I can pretty much talk anyone (irrespective of their computer skills... or lack thereof) through any procedure over the phone. It's a skill that you pick up when working on a help desk, but I absolutely despise it.
It can take 30 minutes sometimes to walk someone through a procedure that would take me only 10 seconds to accomplish if I could just connect to the dang computer!

Me: Yes, ma'am... Go ahead and right-click on 'My Computer' for me.
Them: "How am I supposed to write 'click' on your computer? I can't even see your computer! And how is that going to fix my problem? My computer is the one that's broken!!"
Me: <bangs head on desk>

Last edited by sbarne3 on 10 Jan 2010, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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I decided that I should try to offer a better explanation of my current work
environment so that everyone can better understand the urgency of my questions.
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The Beginning of the End
When I first started working there, we were using an archaic CRM system (anyone ever heard of Vantive?)
They insisted on a very systematic process for writing notes that wasn't directly supported by Vantive so they created a web form that we composed our notes in and then had to copy and paste our notes in Vantive. As a result we were duplicating our efforts by having to enter some information twice... anyway I could go on for hours about the backwards, labor intensive, idiotic process we had to go through just to escalate a case, but I won't bore you with the details.
One important thing about it though, is that it required a lot of direct communication with other members of the support team. It was a challenge to try to keep up with everything among the 20-30 of us, but it was possible. As the company has grown, though, the need for a larger support team has also increased and it soon became impossible to maintain the same level of service among the now 75 of us. I would have to say that we have probably grown too fast for us to keep up.
Management and IT scrambled to implement a new CRM that was supposed to be our savior. They rolled it out in record time... less than 6 months!... no small feat when you consider that most companies our size would have taken about 1.5 to 2 years to complete a project that big. There are multiple departments that use the CRM besides just support (Sales, service dispatch, warehouse, etc) and they all had to submit their requirements and give their stamp of approval on it. Then the half-million dollars that the software costs had to be approved by the board of directors... all before the actual implementation could even start.

How Things Have Changed
During all of this time, management was almost always tied up with some part of the new software and our processes remained the same while our call volume increased dramatically.
As a result:

• Our quality of support fell way down... to the point that several of our major clients declined to renew their contracts with us.
• Management rarely communicated with us anymore and when they did they would end up making promises they couldn't keep.
• Morale fell to an all-time low as stress levels went up.

Suddenly my aspie-friendly job became my worst nightmare.

It Get's Worse
That was around the July-August time frame and things have just gotten worse since then.
We did finally get the new software and it has dramatically improved our processes, but the call volume has continued to increase and the stress level has not let up.
It seems like every other week management is making sweeping changes, finding out that their changes didn't work, and then making more sweeping changes.
They kept messing with the schedule and dramatically changing the shifts of everyone, only to change everything again in a couple of weeks.
And they wouldn't give us any notice that they were changing it... My supervisor would call me at home the night before and say, "By the way your schedule is going to be completely different starting tomorrow." As an aspie... that is very stressful for me.
Finally at the end of October, they quit messing with the schedule, but I ended up on one of the crappiest schedules I have ever had. They said that it would just be temporary... "until we get the new software in a couple of weeks"
Well guess what? We are near the middle of January, the new software has been in service for almost 2 months and I am still on the same schedule...
I also had to work all day Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, and New Years day when they gave other people every one of them off (and it wasn't because of seniority because I have more seniority than some of these people).

Bad Week
Things got really bad this week. I had harsh words with one of my co-workers about something stupid. I found out later that he was actually trying to agree with me. It just came out before I could stop it. After I had time to calm down and collect my thoughts, I realized my mistake and I apologized to him the next day. Fortunately no one said anything to me about it.
I felt a little better after that, but still my stress/frustration level was high.
Yesterday, I was having a particularly hard time dealing with the phone calls and then I got an irate customer on the line. She was supposed to receive a call from someone in a completely different area of the company and it hadn't happened yet and she insisted that I commit to a time when they were going to call her back. Management has always told us not to promise something that is out of our department's direct control (and I happen to agree with that policy), but she would not give in and asked to speak with a supervisor.
Our director (two levels up from a supervisor) happened to be walking by at that moment and overheard me say the word "supervisor", and he came over to find out what was going on. I explained the situation to him and he told me to call over to the other area and get an eta from them on when they would call her back (something that I had previously been told not to do).
Thinking back on it now, it doesn't seem like such a big deal, but at the time I think it was the combination of the situation and my already high frustration level. Fortunately, I was able to contain myself long enough to complete the call and make sure that the director was out of earshot.
My supervisor has a cubicle right next to mine and he had heard the whole thing. I guess he sensed my frustration because he came up to me after I had disconnected with the customer and tried to explain what I could have done to make the call go smoother. You have to understand that I get along great with my supervisor and I think he was genuinely trying to be helpful, but I was already on sensory overload at that moment. I started ranting and raving about how I couldn't be expected to follow the rules if they keep changing them without telling me. I think the other people that were nearby must have thought I had lost my mind or something. The only thing that saved me at that moment was that it was time for my lunch break. I locked my workstation and stormed out.

Lunch Didn't Really Help
When I came back from my lunch break, I had calmed down considerably and no one said anything to me.
I went back to work, but could feel my frustration level creeping back up by the minute. A few minutes later, the call volume spiked and with it, my frustration level. I looked at all of those calls holding and I just couldn't take it anymore. I pretended that I had to go to the bathroom and just sat on the toilet for about 5 minutes... I needed to clear my head (insert some inappropriate toilet joke here).
As I sat on the toilet, I realized that I was not going to be able to finish the day. Or at least not without inducing bodily harm on someone. So I walked out of the bathroom and told my supervisor that I wasn't feeling well and I left work early. That was the first time I have ever even used any of my personal time.
I was supposed to go into work today, but I called in sick and just relaxed all day.

Now What?
I have never even once left early or called in sick before now and most everyone else has called in several times or left early, so I am reasonably certain that I haven't jeopardized my job and that the whole thing will just blow over, but going forward, I am not certain that I will be able to handle the ongoing stress.

Hi sbarne,

Read your first post. Let's try and get some back-and-forth going. Like you, I also write long.

Got my Bachelor's early '90s in psychology (quickest path to degree at that point)

Taught high school math one year in late '90s, did not have the skills to control the class, plus I have a slight/medium speech impediment.

Studied computer science for two years. Decided to pick and horse and ride it. Picked C++ and got good at it.

-----------------------------------------------------

My experiences, largely from the year 2000, it's the bright student council types who run hiring, and the only thing they look at is years of corporate experience. And I mean the only thing. I wish I had some better things to tell you. It's like our tribe won this great victory and then just gave it away. Would be hard for me not to take it personally. Not so much that I spent two years of my life. I've spent a lot of time studying a lot of different things. But rather that my hopes were built up, and then so unfairly dashed.

Things may have changed since 2000 and 2001 I hope so!

-Aardvark


PS I have been fired both justly and unjustly. You might run across the latter from time to time. Some individual in a position of power with a colossal ego . . . consider folding the hand early (even considering that gives you a certain sense of liberation)

A older engineer with a NASA contractor gave me some of the best advice on hiring. Do the research you need to do to find the actual person who you might be working for. Call him or her up and say something like:

'I've already sent human resources a copy of my resume. May I send you a copy also?'

The reason you do it this way is that you're not asking him or her to undermine HR.

Read your second post. I generally like school and do well, I guess just one of the ways people are different (although I can be put off for weeks---or the rest of the semester!---when a professor doesn't seem to make the effort to try and understand a question I am asking, often a question I privately ask after class, or when I go to his or her office. Very frustrating Or disappointing, let's just put it that way. Yup, pretty disappointing)

Your work experience might be the classic example where if you just word it differently to emphasize certain things. The part with the auto dealership, that was impressive.

Have you thought about an Internet business? Which might be a long shot, of course it would be, but a long shot of your own choosing. User generated content with minimum editing. For example, a consumer website where you allow people to slam companies by name---and using profanity. You might good-naturedly try and talk them into a more, substantive factual oriented approach. Kind of the R-rated, reality TV version of a consumer site. And you're welcome to run with this, and so is everyone else. I think there's room for several such sites.

And I would like to ask for your help.

Christmas season I worked for a major department store. I'd like to get some phone numbers for some of the people in the IT dept. My selling points are that I have computer studies, and now I have direct experience on the front line.

But so far, I have not been able to get these phone numbers. Suggestions?

Be vague, lie, or "fib"

Family as an excuse to take a leave of absence.

"A family matter I have to take care of . . [I can't tell you, I'm sorry]

And you can extend that if necessary.

This is called a poker pause.

sbarne,

I flew through your last post. The library computers turn off promptly at 10 til the hour on Sundays.

Okay, it sounds like you did take a poker pause. And you used the more immediate reason of illness. Sounds like you did it pretty well. Ideally, if you then waited two weeks before the reason of "family situation," but you needed always be ideal.

At my department store job, as kind of a mantra, I sometimes asked myself, "How could is your B game." Meaning, I go at things with a lot of energy, almost zen mindfulness, including the small issues, then my energy can slump. Well, sometimes it's okay just to skim.

It sounds like your company already had too many rules and procedures and their knee-jerk reaction is to add more rules and procedures. Well, you might have to disengage emotionally. And you can't fake it, you have to really disengage. For a while, view the job as merely okay and try and add other positives to your life.

Sounds like this director viewed it, well it he comes in with a lot of energy, he can . . . He jumped levels, and he probably shouldn't have. At the very least, he should have identified this as an exception, to the person on the other end of the phoneline in the other dept, and which would have also identified it to you.

Good luck, all the best in this situation. And please keep us informed,

-the friendly Aardvark

People in this forum have commented that people they know/have worked with have been in programming positions without any degree. I think it would be possible, but quite difficult. You would need to be quite skilled and be able to show that skill in your programs.

I have also heard that employers don't always view degrees as important, though they are almost always a bonus. In fact Ph.D holders are often turned down for jobs because they are "overqualified". I can't remember where I read this though, I have looked at a great many websites in the last two days about jobs and education.

Whatever you do, Good Luck with it.

Why can't a person just be a medium employee?

Because employers, especially these days, are not looking for medium employees. They are looking for people with unique talents if they do not have traditional training (read: college). Even if you do have traditional training, they are looking for folks who are highly skilled.

My Boyfriend is a programmer. He is extremely talented and experienced. He has a dream job for many aspies, he works from home, only goes into meetings once every couple of weeks. He also gets paid well.

Programming takes skill and knowledge, it is a difficult creative and technical process with tight deadlines. The other thing is its tedious.

I do know programmers who got thier certifications and ended up in very good jobs. This is not a discouragement. But this is not a field were being "a medium employee" cuts it. People expect programmers to be talented, skilled, and smart.

I work in an IT department myself, except I don't do programming or call center stuff.

I wouldn't hire a "medium" employee for any job with potential for advancement. That may be fine for some people, but when inflation rises faster than your non-existant raises - you may have to make some tough choices about your finances.

I also wouldn't hire a programmer without a degree. I can find programmers with certifications and degrees, so why go with someone that only has one or the other.

thank you everyone for your replies.
I will probably pursue at least the basic certification if for no other reason but myself.
I took a short practice test the other day and did pretty well on it, so maybe if I can shore up some of my weak areas, I can do quite well
I just always thought (and it seems I am right based on your replies) that a certification without practical work experience won't get you very far.
Update to my bad week mentioned above:
I received an "unofficial" reprimand today from my supervisor and a manager.
They pulled me into a conference room and basically said that they had noticed a change in me recently and wanted to know what they could do to help.
The only redeeming part of this whole story is that I had just this morning started reading Roger Meyer's book 'Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook" where he talks about being very careful about disclosing that you have AS and particularly not to do it as an answer to a reprimand because then it will come across as an excuse.
Has anyone else here read this book? So far its not like any other book I have read. His language style bugs me, and I have trouble following his line of thinking, but then there are those "aha!" moments when you know he has hit the nail on the head

I do not like these kind of group meetings. It's a team up. It's a two-on-one. And there's an aspect where vague things, once said, end up being etched in stone. A person's standard stock phrases, or theorizing out loud---end up being super believed. And this whole thing is viewed as professional! Part of it is legal liability (over promoted), boss feels he or she needs a witness there. (And in addition, the manager at the meeting may have felt his or her role was to coach your supervisor, or at least see how he did in talking with you. Maybe. Perhaps. And if so, that means your supervisor is mainly playing to the manager, and not so much having an engaged, realistic, respectful conversation with you. And I don't like that part either!)

You do have some cards you can play if need be:

'No two-on-ones. I'm not going to have a meeting where two people team up against me.'

'A witness. If a person needs to be there as a witness, that's acceptable. But I want it agreed ahead of time that the person is not going to say anything. No two-on-ones. [a little repetition helps]'

'I would like to have a supporter of mine present at the meeting.'

'I would like to have a chance to prepare ahead of time.'

'If you could give me some idea of what the meeting's going to be about---maybe just one side of one piece of paper or a single email---yeah, I would appreciate it.'


Again, only if need be. It's a little like ju jitsu. Hoping you never have to use it, but it's nice to have if you need it. And just having it, gives you a certain confidence, yeah, you're going to avoid the dangerous situations, but you are not going to be incapacitated by fear. And therefore, you will be able to make smarter decisions regarding medium situations.

I don't think I've read Roger Meyer's book (and thank you for your realistic description!). I certainly have read parts of other books on Asperger's, which have been helpful to an extent, but haven't been quite what I'm looking for.

On employment, I'd want a book, generally a biography, and I'd love to have part of that book talk about a person having a baseline of a pretty solid job, and from that baseline, the person branching off with all kinds of long-shot artistic and entrepreneurial forays (that's kind of what I want to do!). One of my issues is that I tend to take a job far too seriously, I try to perfectionize and ? excel. (I think I try and be a star and, to some extent, think I should get promoted right away. And that kind of blurs with some of my social justice beliefs where I think there should just be more good jobs for everyone!)