Are American employers more stigmatised?

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agwood
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14 Dec 2014, 1:22 pm

I recently saw a US Apprentice episode where Donald Trump fired a woman because she had a brief moment (literally was no longer than 15-minutes) of saying some bizarre things that confused her teammates.
And then every single one of her teammates said in the boardroom how this was 'unacceptable'' or ''a really scary moment in their lives''. Trump then fired her immediately.

Whether her odd moment was indicative of a real mental problem, I'm not sure (although it seemed to lean towards bipolar).
The point is, I found everyone's response quite horrifying. These were meant to be full grown adults, and that is supposed to come with some wisdom about the world & how to be more accepting of others.
It was like a high-school environment all over again.

Of course, Trump is regarded as one of the biggest dicks in America, and it's probably justified given his fame & fortune.
But I wonder, are employers in America particularly harsh against those with mental conditions?

What I can say is that here in the UK, I once had 2 group interviews for separate sales jobs. And both times I was actually picked, out of about 20 people!
I think what helped me was that whereas most people were talking about all their achievements and positive points, I was completely honest about my short-comings (ie. being very introverted, not being too good at conversation, having issues with attention), but I also said what measures I had taken to try & overcome my weakness.
And this was with VERY elite companies in the UK.



xenocity
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14 Dec 2014, 1:48 pm

It's just American society as a whole.

Having a disability or having a parent or sibling with a disability means you are marked for life in the U.S.
People will generally treat you differently and avoid you to some degree.
It also means you will have trouble finding someone to make friends with, date, marry.
It's not unusual to have family distance themselves too.


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agwood
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14 Dec 2014, 4:36 pm

xenocity wrote:
It's just American society as a whole.

Having a disability or having a parent or sibling with a disability means you are marked for life in the U.S.
People will generally treat you differently and avoid you to some degree.
It also means you will have trouble finding someone to make friends with, date, marry.
It's not unusual to have family distance themselves too.


Damn, I wonder how many other nations/countries have that kind of attitude.



xenocity
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14 Dec 2014, 5:59 pm

agwood wrote:
xenocity wrote:
It's just American society as a whole.

Having a disability or having a parent or sibling with a disability means you are marked for life in the U.S.
People will generally treat you differently and avoid you to some degree.
It also means you will have trouble finding someone to make friends with, date, marry.
It's not unusual to have family distance themselves too.


Damn, I wonder how many other nations/countries have that kind of attitude.

Most countries and societies do to some degree.

It is believed to be rooted in the primal mind, due to the fact people wanted healthy offspring and each group wants the strongest members.
AKA Strength is accepted while weakness is shunned (even if perceived).


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agwood
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14 Dec 2014, 6:38 pm

xenocity wrote:
agwood wrote:
xenocity wrote:
It's just American society as a whole.

Having a disability or having a parent or sibling with a disability means you are marked for life in the U.S.
People will generally treat you differently and avoid you to some degree.
It also means you will have trouble finding someone to make friends with, date, marry.
It's not unusual to have family distance themselves too.


Damn, I wonder how many other nations/countries have that kind of attitude.

Most countries and societies do to some degree.

It is believed to be rooted in the primal mind, due to the fact people wanted healthy offspring and each group wants the strongest members.
AKA Strength is accepted while weakness is shunned (even if perceived).


That's a very black & white way of thinking. Surely a more wise employer would be able to see how a person's weaknesses could be targeted & strengths focused.

Then again, a lot of corporations do have managers that don't know their asses from their heads. I know because my mum has been working for one for the last 7 years.
And if the manager's aren't very flexible or adaptable, then there's no point even bothering.

The problem with employers like that is they are cold (think Ebeneezer Scrooge). The minute I personally spot a person who is cold (and they are quite easy to spot), I immediately give up any hope of a decent relationship with them, either in the workplace or elsewhere. Life is too short to waste on dickheads.



xenocity
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14 Dec 2014, 6:48 pm

agwood wrote:
xenocity wrote:
agwood wrote:
xenocity wrote:
It's just American society as a whole.

Having a disability or having a parent or sibling with a disability means you are marked for life in the U.S.
People will generally treat you differently and avoid you to some degree.
It also means you will have trouble finding someone to make friends with, date, marry.
It's not unusual to have family distance themselves too.


Damn, I wonder how many other nations/countries have that kind of attitude.

Most countries and societies do to some degree.

It is believed to be rooted in the primal mind, due to the fact people wanted healthy offspring and each group wants the strongest members.
AKA Strength is accepted while weakness is shunned (even if perceived).


That's a very black & white way of thinking. Surely a more wise employer would be able to see how a person's weaknesses could be targeted & strengths focused.

Then again, a lot of corporations do have managers that don't know their asses from their heads. I know because my mum has been working for one for the last 7 years.
And if the manager's aren't very flexible or adaptable, then there's no point even bothering.

The problem with employers like that is they are cold (think Ebeneezer Scrooge). The minute I personally spot a person who is cold (and they are quite easy to spot), I immediately give up any hope of a decent relationship with them, either in the workplace or elsewhere. Life is too short to waste on dickheads.

It maybe black and white.
This also occurs in other animals too.
The disabled and/or weak one gets left by the herd and/or parents.

Hence the terms "white crow" and "black sheep".


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agwood
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14 Dec 2014, 7:00 pm

xenocity wrote:
It maybe black and white.
This also occurs in other animals too.
The disabled and/or weak one gets left by the herd and/or parents.

Hence the terms "white crow" and "black sheep".


Actually that's not always true. I've read about scenarios where animals have shown terrific altruistic behaviour, and likewise have read about (disturbing) situations where animals have shown irrational hostile behaviour to their own families.

I guess it's all about finding the people who matter :)



xenocity
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14 Dec 2014, 7:20 pm

agwood wrote:
xenocity wrote:
It maybe black and white.
This also occurs in other animals too.
The disabled and/or weak one gets left by the herd and/or parents.

Hence the terms "white crow" and "black sheep".


Actually that's not always true. I've read about scenarios where animals have shown terrific altruistic behaviour, and likewise have read about (disturbing) situations where animals have shown irrational hostile behaviour to their own families.

I guess it's all about finding the people who matter :)

There are plenty of animals that do one or the other.

I like to believe society is getting better....


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bacun
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15 Dec 2014, 6:27 am

People are the same wherever you go ,being different is bad .


It's a cold hard fact of life ,either you fit in with society or you fail.



agwood
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15 Dec 2014, 7:26 am

bacun wrote:
People are the same wherever you go ,being different is bad .


It's a cold hard fact of life ,either you fit in with society or you fail.


Well, every year they're finding better treatments. And let me tell you this: there is NOTHING that society loves more than someone who has fought back against a genetic weakness.

And until that day comes, have to look out for each other (or 'stick to our own kind' as some might put it).



MaxE
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15 Dec 2014, 8:23 am

I sincerely don't think employers in the US are any worse in this regard. Apprentice is an extreme example watched for voyeuristic reasons. Participants are encouraged to behave in the most inhumane manner imaginable. In fact, I thought Apprentice was based on a British program in the same way that Shark's Tank is based on Dragon's Den (which I would consider to be in the same genre).

In fact, I think corporate culture in many countries can be more intolerant. I don't feel like going into a lengthy defense of this claim, although I can recount a specific incident in Spain where I told someone that I worked as a Java developer and was told that in Europe ABSOLUTELY NOBODY past the age of 40 works as a programmer.

If anything, US employers are especially used to diversity of all sorts. I suggest doing some research on white-collar life in Japan. You may have heard they have lifetime employment there. Well look into what it means to get "the silent treatment". Although I actually like Japan very much but facts are facts.


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15 Dec 2014, 8:45 am

agwood wrote:
I recently saw a US Apprentice episode where Donald Trump fired a woman because she had a brief moment (literally was no longer than 15-minutes) of saying some bizarre things that confused her teammates.
And then every single one of her teammates said in the boardroom how this was 'unacceptable'' or ''a really scary moment in their lives''. Trump then fired her immediately.

Whether her odd moment was indicative of a real mental problem, I'm not sure (although it seemed to lean towards bipolar).
The point is, I found everyone's response quite horrifying. These were meant to be full grown adults, and that is supposed to come with some wisdom about the world & how to be more accepting of others.
It was like a high-school environment all over again.

Of course, Trump is regarded as one of the biggest dicks in America, and it's probably justified given his fame & fortune.
But I wonder, are employers in America particularly harsh against those with mental conditions?

What I can say is that here in the UK, I once had 2 group interviews for separate sales jobs. And both times I was actually picked, out of about 20 people!
I think what helped me was that whereas most people were talking about all their achievements and positive points, I was completely honest about my short-comings (ie. being very introverted, not being too good at conversation, having issues with attention), but I also said what measures I had taken to try & overcome my weakness.
And this was with VERY elite companies in the UK.

I kind of agree with xenocity, that americans just don't know how to deal with disability, especially mental illness.

My husband is from the UK. Very smart guy, does the job right, even if he finishes on his own time... but, that's probably because he has OCPD. If something doesn't go according to plan, he gets very agitated. It can be a bit frightening at first, not knowing what's going on. And, the fact that he had such a successful career over there surprised me, given that, because I've never seen behaviors like that in any of the companies I've worked for or with.

I think many managers here are compassionate enough that they try to help their workers in what ways they can, at least in professional settings (restaurant and retail are a different thing altogether, I was bullied by some for my neuromuscular problems, which are far more obvious than my sensory issues), but, I also feel that if people have problems, they're hidden and not discussed. Obviously, that's good for privacy reasons, but, in a way, it's a failing because it still doesn't accommodate the general public to dealing with people who aren't 'normal'.



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18 Dec 2014, 12:00 am

It's a big country so there is a lot of variation. But the idea of individualism and competition are basic values. Most people here come here or are decedents of people who immigrated her to escape societies and governments that persecuted them based on their religion or ideas. It is a young country that until recently emphasized youthfulness, optimism and looking forward.

Or maybe it is just as bad elsewhere just we are more open about it.


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