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Marethyu
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19 Nov 2014, 6:05 pm

In October I was hired at a a well-known grocery store as a night stock person. After two weeks, I was moved to produce after being told that there weren't enough available hours to give me in night crew. After a few days there I finally met the store manager, who told me it was really because I was working to slow, and that I still was, and they would have to terminate me if I didn't improve within two weeks. The following Wednesday, either before or at the beginning of my shift, my mom called and requested reasonable accommodations due to Aspergers syndrome on my behalf, and also complained about the fact they moved me to an even faster department after struggling in my original position. After my shift that night, I had two days off in which the store never contacted me, and on Friday I showed up for my scheduled shift to be told they were letting me go, and after I tried to bring up my disability, the HR woman cut me off, told me they couldn't discuss that, and insisted that it couldn't have made a possible difference to the job.

That really just seems so clearly and obviously wrong and foolish for them to tell me that I'm actually questioning that it might actually be right because it's easier for me to believe than that they would make up something so ridiculous.



AspieUtah
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19 Nov 2014, 6:17 pm

The ADA provides that employers must make reasonable accommodations to help you match the quantity and quality of work of your co-workers. Did your employer warn you about your work before they terminated your employment? If not, then, yes, they violated general labor laws and probably the ADA. I would contact your employer's corporate office and ask them why you were terminated without adequate accommodations (and warnign, if applicable). If that doesn't resolve the matter, try finding a disability-law clinic in your community. They would be the best source of help for you.


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Marethyu
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19 Nov 2014, 6:19 pm

Also I think I might be relevant to state that a 30 day probationary period is typical of this employer and they did let me go close to the end of that period, which is the only reason I'm not convinced that the request for accommodation itself is what caused them to let me go. I could even understand if they said that it was too in my probationary period to have made the request or anything along those lines, but that they simply told me that they don't do that at all seems very suspect, since it's such a large company and just a few miles from their headquarters, so I would expect them to be prepared with a better response for my request.



Marethyu
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19 Nov 2014, 6:24 pm

I think it's a bit ambiguous as to whether or not they provided me with the required warning, since they initially lied about why they changed my department, and didn't actually warn me until almost the last minute.



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19 Nov 2014, 7:41 pm

Sorry to say that you may have no legal leg to stand on.

Unless you provided your ex-employer with official documentation of your disability in advance, your mum's intervention may have done you more harm than good. By "official", I mean a document that has been signed by an appropriately-trained and licensed medical practitioner -- preferably, the person who made your diagnosis -- and stating that you have a disability that requires special accommodations from an employer; and that this document should have been presented when you were hired.

(This is yet another instance when a self-diagnosis would have been worse than useless.)

Let me present this from an employer's point of view...

"Hmm ... this kid is slow ... his mommy called in with a lame excuse ... if she's telling the truth, then he should have told us when we hired him ... if she's lying, then he's just a momma's boy, and she's likely to make more trouble ... either way, he's still a probie ... and there's a stack of applications in my office right now ..."

One quick call to Human Resources, and the boss can go home happy. That's how it works, kid; especially in a state that has "At-Will Employment" laws in effect.


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khaoz
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19 Nov 2014, 8:02 pm

Well, Aspergers is no longer recognized as a Diagnosis in DSMV, so, did you notify your employer at the time you were hired that you were autistic? Did you inform them of what limitations they could expect so that they might make adjustments?



Marethyu
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19 Nov 2014, 9:20 pm

I've previously worked in such places that were based solely on my diagnosis (ie, Goodwill) and wouldn't that have shown in my background check? Also, don't I have the option to wait until I believe it's relevant to inform them?

The whole "provide proof" thing is also part of what I was talking about with the whole "they could have gone about this so much easier" thing. I mean, if that were the case, why outright tell me that they don't in any way change the job based for anyone in such circumstances?



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19 Nov 2014, 11:08 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sorry to say that you may have no legal leg to stand on.

Unless you provided your ex-employer with official documentation of your disability in advance, your mum's intervention may have done you more harm than good. By "official", I mean a document that has been signed by an appropriately-trained and licensed medical practitioner -- preferably, the person who made your diagnosis -- and stating that you have a disability that requires special accommodations from an employer; and that this document should have been presented when you were hired.

(This is yet another instance when a self-diagnosis would have been worse than useless.)

Let me present this from an employer's point of view...

"Hmm ... this kid is slow ... his mommy called in with a lame excuse ... if she's telling the truth, then he should have told us when we hired him ... if she's lying, then he's just a momma's boy, and she's likely to make more trouble ... either way, he's still a probie ... and there's a stack of applications in my office right now ..."

One quick call to Human Resources, and the boss can go home happy. That's how it works, kid; especially in a state that has "At-Will Employment" laws in effect.


Right to work states suck!

Anyway, you need to tell your employer upfront, and not just before getting canned that you need accommodations. There has to be legal proof, like a doctor's note that you were diagnosed with xyz.

I think the problem was with your job in general. Stockers have to move fast and learn fast. I did that job. I think the switch to evenings is there were more people around to help, and maybe more supervision. If they felt generious, I don't know where they could have moved you. Cart dog or in the bottle return? That is where my store stuck everyone who was slow to learn.

The total kiss of death was your mom calling. I've been at jobs were people were let go just because mom called to complain about a schedule. Bonus round was mom disclosing a medical information.

If you are legally an adult, with no guardian, you gotta learn to fight your own battles.

Sorry this happened to you...



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20 Nov 2014, 1:07 am

Marethyu wrote:
I've previously worked in such places that were based solely on my diagnosis (ie, Goodwill) and wouldn't that have shown in my background check? Also, don't I have the option to wait until I believe it's relevant to inform them?

The whole "provide proof" thing is also part of what I was talking about with the whole "they could have gone about this so much easier" thing. I mean, if that were the case, why outright tell me that they don't in any way change the job based for anyone in such circumstances?



Your diagnoses won't show up because it's confidential.


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zer0netgain
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20 Nov 2014, 5:40 am

Fnord wrote:
Sorry to say that you may have no legal leg to stand on.

Unless you provided your ex-employer with official documentation of your disability in advance, your mum's intervention may have done you more harm than good. By "official", I mean a document that has been signed by an appropriately-trained and licensed medical practitioner -- preferably, the person who made your diagnosis -- and stating that you have a disability that requires special accommodations from an employer; and that this document should have been presented when you were hired.

(This is yet another instance when a self-diagnosis would have been worse than useless.)

Let me present this from an employer's point of view...

"Hmm ... this kid is slow ... his mommy called in with a lame excuse ... if she's telling the truth, then he should have told us when we hired him ... if she's lying, then he's just a momma's boy, and she's likely to make more trouble ... either way, he's still a probie ... and there's a stack of applications in my office right now ..."

One quick call to Human Resources, and the boss can go home happy. That's how it works, kid; especially in a state that has "At-Will Employment" laws in effect.


Now, the other side of that....

1. There is no legal requirement that I know of that requires you have a formal diagnosis to be protected under the ADA. Yes, proving you are disabled will become an issue, but all the employer needs to know is that you require accommodation. If they do anything other than ask for documentation, it can be said that they are discriminating. Being fired or demoted after asking for accommodation is likely prima facie discrimination because they don't even make the effort to do a fact-finding inquiry before terminating or demoting you.

2. The issue is, of course, proving they knew of a disability and request for accommodation before they took action. If you can prove this, any negative action is automatically considered retaliatory to the disclosure. This is why written disclosure is better...it creates a paper trail they can't ignore. Expect most places to deny ever hearing anything before deciding to fire you.



Marethyu
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20 Nov 2014, 7:32 am

The 20 minute call log should provide evidence that we asked before I was terminated, no?

Also doing a bit of research online and saw something about it being perfectly legal to have a family member make the request on our behalf?



Fnord
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20 Nov 2014, 9:05 am

A call log only shows which number called which number, how long the call lasted, and the time and date of the call. It will not reveal the contents of the call, unless someone recorded the conversation -- those "Your call may be monitored..." announcements are mostly bogus; they're made to encourage the caller to be on his or her best behavior, and it's likely that the call is not being monitored or recorded at all!

Again, without a written disclosure from you that is backed up by an official diagnosis in written form, the law is on the side of the employer.

In fact, the law will remain on the side of the employer until you can prove discrimination, and you are unlikely to do that without legal council, so hire an attorney (or a solicitor in the U.K.) who specializes in discrimination cases.

Don't count on the employer being cooperative, however, or to even tell the truth. Discrimination cases can drag on for years.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Nov 2014, 9:38 am

In the meantime....have you gotten another job yet? Have you applied for Unemployment Insurance?

Alas, the majority of jobs in the US are covered under what is termed "employment at will." Basically, you could get fired for wearing plaid socks with green in them, unless you're covered under a union contract which says otherwise.

You could try the litigation route--but I wouldn't put too much hope into it. Maybe you could influence how future litigation goes, even if you don't "win."



Marethyu
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20 Nov 2014, 10:38 am

I know that that is all that's recorded in a call log, but I think that might be sufficient to prove that there was at least some attempt to contact them over something, immediately before they terminated me almost a full week before they said was my deadline (I spent six days working the department when they told me I would have at least two weeks, though I know I can't prove the latter) and unless they can prove otherwise, wouldn't it seem likely that I'm telling the truth?

As for evidence that I made the request, it's only natural that any guilty party would lie about me making the request, so wouldn't my claim that they refused to discuss it with me hold at least some consideration?

Anyway, I do intend to apply for unemployment or find another nearby job, but haven't made any real progress on that front.



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20 Nov 2014, 10:54 am

Marethyu wrote:
I know that that is all that's recorded in a call log, but I think that might be sufficient to prove that there was at least some attempt to contact them over something, immediately before they terminated me almost a full week before they said was my deadline (I spent six days working the department when they told me I would have at least two weeks, though I know I can't prove the latter) and unless they can prove otherwise, wouldn't it seem likely that I'm telling the truth?

The person making the accusation must provide the evidence that supports his claim. In your case, your lawyer should petition the court to subpoena all evidence germane to the case ... that is, before the employer has a chance to delete it.

Marethyu wrote:
As for evidence that I made the request, it's only natural that any guilty party would lie about me making the request, so wouldn't my claim that they refused to discuss it with me hold at least some consideration?

No. In such a disagreement, your lack of evidence would likely disqualify your claim.

Marethyu wrote:
Anyway, I do intend to apply for unemployment or find another nearby job, but haven't made any real progress on that front.

Sure, but have you hired a lawyer yet?


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20 Nov 2014, 11:30 am

Here is a FAQ about the ADA

http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/pubs/ ... c264294459

Looking at theis FAQ, it looks like your employer did not violate ADA, but only a lawyer would know for sure.

Quote:
While it is not necessary to tell your employer that you have a disability at any specific time, you should inform your employer and request a ?reasonable accommodation? when you first realize that an accommodation is necessary in order for you to successfully fulfill the essential functions of your job. Waiting until after your employer has fired you is too late to request accommodation. In order to prove that your employer engaged in discriminatory hiring or firing based on your disability, you must first be able to show that your employer had knowledge of your disability. Once an employer knows of a disability, he or she must provide ?reasonable accommodations? that will enable you to carry out the essential functions of your job.[55]


The right time to disclose would have been when they initially told you that you were too slow and had two weeks to improve or be fired. A lawyer might be able to work with the fact that they did not wait two weeks before firing you. However, it goes against your case that you did not tell them right then about your Aspergers and request the accomodation of a more slowly moving department or assignment. Your mom calling them and telling them wouldn't count as notification. Notification has to be this:

Quote:
Under the ADA you have a disability whenever (1) you have a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of your major life activities; (2) you have a record of such an impairment; or (3) you are regarded as having such an impairment.[56] Sometimes a disability will be obvious, such as when you use a wheelchair, or may not be obvious, such as a learning disability. When a disability is obvious, generally you will not need to prove you have a disability, although you must if your employer wants documentation of your disability. If your disability is not obvious, you will need to provide your employer with information from your doctor that describes your disability. A sample doctor?s letter is included with these materials in the Appendix.


It is likely too late with this job although a lawyer may be able to do something with the lack of the stated two week period. If they had stuck to the two weeks before firing you, that would have given you enough time to get a letter from your doctor. But I don't know if that will work since it wasn't actually you who notified them. It was your mom. That technicality might give them legal wiggle room. In any case, read the FAQ in full so you will know exactly what to do in your next job.