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RetroGamer87
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03 Nov 2015, 1:03 am

I'm slow and I don't know what I'm doing most of the time. Maybe I'm just unemployable. And this is in a group composed of and for aspies. Not that I think other aspies are unemployable. The group I'm with is highly competent. In fact some of them seem to have perfect memories. I don't.

For example last week I start uploading some work to Sharepoint. Then a colleague sees me doing this and acts like I made the most idiotic mistake. He reminded me that a few weeks ago they told us that work in that particular category should be uploaded to G Drive. No one had mentioned it to us since but apparently everyone else on the team had remembered with their perfect dammed memories.

This is a common theme, when I get stuck because I forget about something that was mentioned once and only once several weeks ago. Then when I forget about they act like I forgot which number comes after 9. Do they all have eidetic memory but me?

And today, the same colleague sees me log in to a particular service with a particular code. How stupid of me not to know that Environment 24 uses a different code than the last one we were using. Even though there's nothing on the Environments page saying which code goes with which environment every one else on my team just seems to magically know this stuff.

I enter my password. No good. My colleague, becoming more frustrated with my stupidity tells me each code has a different personal password. No one told me that before but everyone has a different personal password for each environment.

My esteemed colleague calls over the supervisor who accuses me of forgetting my password for that particular code. I tell her I can't have had a password for that code because I've never needed to use that code before. She doesn't believe me.

Then later today my supervisor tells me I was supposed to have been doing everything in the virtual machine. No one had told me that but she acted like everyone already knew.

I've been here for almost a year. Long enough to learn it right? But they keep on changing it. Whenever they introduce a complex new procedure they give a demonstration several weeks before we're actually due to start using it and then two weeks later everyone but me remembers the demo like it was five minutes ago.

Then the supervisor says I'm writing from the wrong template. I ask where the new one is. She acts surprised I don't know. She says she's mentioned it lots of times. I don't remember her mentioning it.

I think part of the reason why I'm slow is because I can't hold a lot of things in short term memory at once. This means I can't rapidly switch from one thing to another.

I don't want to criticise my colleagues because their output is vastly greater than mine in both quantity and quality. I don't mind working but I don't like being confused the whole day, it's exhausting. There's only so many times I can reasonably ask for help. I feel so stupid when I make mistakes all the time and all the times I don't know what to do next.

Sometimes I worry I'll be fired for incompetence and underperformance. My colleagues are so much smarter than me, surely the boss can see the difference.

I don't want to leave this job, I wouldn't be able to get another one. I think I only got this email by mistake fluke. When I'm unemployed I get extremely depressed, when I have a good job I'm only mildly depressed.

I think, if I can't get a job and do it well than I have no reason for existing. I feel guilty getting paid the same $28 per hour when I'm both slower and more likely to make mistakes than the others.

Yet without that money it would be impossible for me to pay off my credit card or pay for GF's immigration fees. She's a kind and wonderful girl and if I went back to being single due to lack of funds I don't know what I'd do.


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kraftiekortie
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03 Nov 2015, 2:20 am

Seems like you need to take notes or keep the flyers/instruction manuals.



RetroGamer87
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03 Nov 2015, 2:44 am

Sigh. I fill up notebooks with my notes but when there's too many notes to read, it becomes useless. I don't get how everyone else seems to memorize everything in an instant and then they can recall it in detail weeks later. I feel like I'm Forrest Gump and I just wandered into CERN.

Reading the manual is complicated. The spec for OLC is about 50 or so documents each between 20 and 100 pages in length and filled with high density short-hand jargon and things that are known by two or three different acronyms (one not just one term for each thing?) They often contain a reference to a reference to a reference to a... trying to find the thing originally referred to can be like a time-consuming goose chase.

Just today I ran into a problem when I didn't know which document I needed to look in to get the code I needed. The spec is updated daily.

As for the software we use, one of the programs comes with it's own package of training videos. The total running time is about 12 hours. Yes I've watched it but I have a hard time remembering it all.

Another thing we use is the 40 year old mainframe. It's an IBM System 360 running Database Model 204. Using it is a little bit like DOS but not as user friendly. Even though it's located in a different part of the country it seems to run faster and more reliably than most of the GUI stuff.

It's not that our PCs are slow but the network is and everything runs through the network. The servers often fail. This slows me down. The mainframe may be unpleasant to use but I give it an A+ for reliability. It's lasted far longer than any computer I've ever owned. With it's uncorrodeable gold plated circuits it could probably run for hundreds of years and if our budget gets cut again it may have to.


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kraftiekortie
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03 Nov 2015, 5:52 am

You have a point. Maybe I should have said "write down the passwords."

I'm thinking you're having difficulty separating the extraneous from the relevant information, which is unfortunately common in Asperger's.



AnatasiaKing
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03 Nov 2015, 7:02 am

I had the same issue, I'm not sure what is it but for some reason I can never focus or know what i'm doing I get lost half the time though that's probably because of my DP and Dr


I agree with the guy who said take notes..I got fired from my last job for messing up a sandwich too many times, the mangers used to talk about me saying "How the hell do you mess up a sandwich 6 times." There were directions in front of me on how to make a sandwich but I worked there for about a month and people would give me that. "You should know how to do this by now." look

I kind of zone out, and go off into another world, I pretend I'm on T.V or something just to make it through the day...don't disapear though..

I would never do that...who knows what happens once you're gone...like I feel like working a crappy job is better than rotting in the ground with a bunch of maggots...or worse being ashes. Sorry if that came out wrong.

But yeah I feel like an idiot half the time too my mother treats me like one and so does everyone else. I know exactly how you feel.
28 dollars an hour is pretty good, you shouldn't feel bad for earning that much you obivously derserve it since you got the job

And sorry for my english.



RetroGamer87
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04 Nov 2015, 1:20 am

AnatasiaKing wrote:
I kind of zone out, and go off into another world, I pretend I'm on T.V or something just to make it through the day...don't disapear though..
I do that too. Sometimes I'll think about movies for a couple of minutes without doing any work. When I snap out of it I curse myself and promise myself I won't do it again then I can't help but do it again immediately afterwards.
AnatasiaKing wrote:
28 dollars an hour is pretty good, you shouldn't feel bad for earning that much you obivously derserve it since you got the job
Maybe. It could be I got the job because my I presented myself really well in the interview. I was confident and charismatic. I interview well yet I have trouble with really technical stuff. Ironic, for most aspies it's the other way around.

Next came the assessment, which involved Lego Mindstorms. This was something I already had a lot of experience with. It sort of gave me advantage because not everyone there had used Lego Mindstorms before. Another advantage I had was to pick a large scale Lego Technic car from my collection at home and adapt for remote control for my assessment project. It's a really cool looking red sports car. The brass were very impressed with my project but not everyone has dozens of Lego Technic sets at home.
kraftiekortie wrote:
You have a point. Maybe I should have said "write down the passwords."

I'm thinking you're having difficulty separating the extraneous from the relevant information, which is unfortunately common in Asperger's.
I get what you mean now. Yes I write down passwords. The trouble was each environment code has a different password. First I got into trouble . Using code 432 from the previous day when we were on code 435 that day.

No one had told me at the morning meeting or through email yet my colleagues acted like it was a most obvious fact. I felt really stupid to not know something everyone else considers to the obvious.

Then I get embarrassed for not knowing each code has a different password. It would have been nice if they could have told me that in previous months. Instead what they did the previous times I had to use a different code was accuse me of forgetting my password (when I had it written down) and make a big deal about having to reset it. I was using the same password as the last code, not realising the new code has it's own password.

So this time, they actually tell me that each code has it's own password. I have never used code 435 before so therefore I have never been issued a password for 435. I explained this to the supervisor and she still accused me of forgetting the code 435. I never had it to begin with!

Writing down passwords is easy enough but it's hard when I don’t understand the fundamentals, no one tells me and everyone else knows seemingly without having been told. Everyone on my team was hired on the same date so none of them have been there longer than me.

I have trouble understanding the jargon. Often the same thing will be referred to by two or three different acronyms which are used interchangeably in conversation by team members who've been there for the same ten months I have yet they have no difficulty remembering this stuff.

I can't blame aspergers because the whole team is made up of aspies. Being around them, in the last ten months I've observed that aspies are really smart (except me) and that they have perfect memories. If you tell them something like a code and then don't mention it for a month, they'll still be able to recall it instantly and accurately a month later.

Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough for this stuff. Yet that would mean my IT studies are also a waste of time. If I can't handle this level I can't handle the next level. I can't just give up a well paying job to start a new career when it was a fluke that I got this career in the first place.

I'd like to do something like writing instead but there are very, very few writing jobs that pay a regular salary and I need a predictable paycheck to handle my budgeting. I can't just change careers every time I feel stressed.


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kraftiekortie
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04 Nov 2015, 3:34 am

Hey Man,

I wish I could help you. I know nothing about programming. If I were within your specific context, maybe I'd be able to help.

I understand it could be tough at times.

Just hang in there, buddy. That's all I can say.



FizzyOrange
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08 Nov 2015, 2:38 am

I sat and read this with my eyes wide open. I can't believe this, but you sound just like me. Instead, my field was journalism. I took on several jobs and did very badly in most of them for the very same reasons which you are describing.

I feel slow, though I know I'm smart. I think you are smart as well, but like me, learn differently. Not all Aspies have the same working minds. Each are different and you just happen to work with a bunch of people who have the same level of functioning. You can be smart and still have a hard time remembering things.

When someone said write things down, maybe you have to create a system to keep track. My problem here is I learn the information yet don't know how or when to use it. I can have notes, but I don't know when the information should be applied or how.

This is also the trouble with not disclosing your Aspergers. This is a part of it. You're not blaming it but you have to find a way to function. Maybe find a case worker or someone who can help you figure out how you process things? Maybe work with someone to develop a notes taking and organizing system so you can effectively use them. It's clear you CAN do the work. It's just about how you do it. And understanding how you learn and process things can take care of this problem IF someone will and can work with you.

I'm really not good with lots of information. And if there is something like a certain style or procedure to be followed, I'm not good with this. I need explicit instructions, which makes me feel like an idiot, but I know what I need in order to get the job done.

I've been talked about, talked down to, fired, screamed at, and laughed at. I understand. And this is for things that I know I should be able to do, but for some reason, I can't. I never understood this, but I'm starting to now at 28 years-old.

Some of the examples you gave proved that you are smart and you do deserve this job. In order to perform this job, you may need some modifications in performing tasks and organization to assist in keeping on task.

You're not making excuses. Everyone, even Aspies, thinks, functions, and processes differently. You are noticing a pattern in yourself and admitting that there's a problem is the first step. How you can handle and deal with it is the next. You are smart and talented and you deserve this job just like anyone else. You have the skills and talents, just a problem with execution, which I assure you, can be dealt with.



FizzyOrange
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08 Nov 2015, 2:51 am

I reread what I wrote. I want to say that I hope I don't come across as pushy or making light of this problem. I just wanted to say that you might need to work with some type of psychologist or case worker to figure out how to work with how your brain works differently. And also maybe seek accommodations with your job. I had to get accommodations in college .



RetroGamer87
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08 Nov 2015, 4:00 am

FizzyOrange wrote:
Maybe find a case worker or someone who can help you figure out how you process things?
That's kind of tricky. There are workers there who are experts on the computer systems, who could instruct me on how to use them but there isn't anyone there who's an expert on neurology. No one there could could tailor the instructions to my unique method of thinking because no one there understands how I think compared to other people, including myself. I can honestly say I don't really understand how my own mind works or how to make the best use of it.

I think it would take an extremely skilled teacher to tailor his teaching methods to different styles of thinking and that kind of teaching just doesn't exist in our society. Maybe if it's just impractical but if there was some way to do it, I'd bet the college drop out rate would be massively reduced. It's so unfortunate that students often receive tuition that doesn't mesh with their type of brain, and when they can't understand it they get told they just weren't trying hard enough, even if they were trying much harder than the students with the same type of thinking as the professor, who can cruise through it.
FizzyOrange wrote:
Maybe work with someone to develop a notes taking and organizing system so you can effectively use them.
Maybe. My father says the best way to learn a system is to make a working "model" in your head so that any new information you learn about it fits into the model in context.

The trouble is, sometimes when they start using jargon and I can't remember it, I won't understand what they were talking about it, then it looks like I wasn't paying attention to what they were saying. Sometimes they tell me to just look at the taskcards they made, but the taskcards are extremely disorganized, spread across networked drives and Shairpoint (I hate Sharepoint, it's like Windows Explorer but it doesn't let you see the directory structure).

These guys are very smart but I give them an F for organization. Since they seem to have perfect memories they can remember all the jargon terms and they have no need to properly organize all the files we use because they can remember the locations individually instead of in the context of a structure that actually makes sense. They create much of it as they go along but they're not at all consistent about it.

In better news, I wrote the opening post after a particularly bad day but a few days later they shifted to tasks I understand better. I'm still going through it slower than the others but the good news is, after a slow and very detailed analysis of the WCEM, I managed to get a bug that had been in production for two years without anyone noticing. They gave me a commendation for this :)
FizzyOrange wrote:
You're not making excuses. Everyone, even Aspies, thinks, functions, and processes differently.
If only there was a study focussing on the differences between aspies rather than the differences between aspies and NTs. I've noticed a huge amount of difference between aspies.
FizzyOrange wrote:
You are noticing a pattern in yourself and admitting that there's a problem is the first step.
I've started to notice them but I haven't figured them out yet. I really need to. I'm going to try.

What is the old saying, if you know yourself you can have true power? Something like that. I feel like if I could better understand how my own mind works I could make better use of it and maximise my potential.
FizzyOrange wrote:
I hope I don't come across as pushy or making light of this problem.
No. Not at all. You're fine. It's always nice to hear I'm not the only one who's been through this. Sorry to hear you got fired, I've always thought journalism would be a really good career if I could get into it but I have no idea what it's actually like.
FizzyOrange wrote:
I just wanted to say that you might need to work with some type of psychologist
Maybe. The last time I saw a psychologist (for depression) I got someone who was quite a good conversationalist but didn't reveal any knowledge of actual psychology.

She told me I shouldn't be depressed because... and then she listed all the reasons why I have a great life. I felt like she was trivializing my problems. Maybe I do have a great life but sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Some days I can't attain my goals and some days I don't even know what my goals should be.

How can I achieve my purpose in life when I don't know what it is? If the purpose of life is just to have a good career then maybe I can achieve that. But I don't know if I'm missing some deeper purpose. If people say the purpose of life is only to have a good career, I wonder if that's just memetic engineering from some corporate tycoon to motivate his minions to work harder.


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Mirage99
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08 Nov 2015, 11:35 am

If only there was a study focussing on the differences between aspies rather than the differences between aspies and NTs. I've noticed a huge amount of difference between aspies.

Hi there, I actually touched on this subject while discussing other topic on this forum. How you maturity and competency level can differ depending on the areas of life. In some areas you can be very capable and perform same or even better than most NTs and in other areas you fall way behind. And how the 'high functioning' label is general and doesn't adequately describe differences that exist between aspies . I actually had this idea to design a new diagram that'll better demonstrate the complex aspects of Autism and AS, one for each.

For AS (aspies) for example, It might involve the primary colors as representing the most prominent aspect of AS, and when this primary colors mix with one another, they will represent the different trait and characteristics that a particular person with AS might display. This is a very broad concept, but with a bit of research, some one could actually design a diagram or better yet an app, that would intricately illustrate the complex aspects of AS. I think color is a good device to use, because every time I think of any type of learning difficulty, the color wheel comes to mind. This learning difficulties are as varied in type and severity as the colors and their temperatures in a color wheel.



Mirage99
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08 Nov 2015, 11:37 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
If only there was a study focussing on the differences between aspies rather than the differences between aspies and NTs. I've noticed a huge amount of difference between aspies.


Hi there, I actually touched on this subject while discussing other topic on this forum. How you maturity and competency level can differ depending on the areas of life. In some areas you can be very capable and perform same or even better than most NTs and in other areas you fall way behind. And how the 'high functioning' label is general and doesn't adequately describe differences that exist between aspies . I actually had this idea to design a new diagram that'll better demonstrate the complex aspects of Autism and AS, one for each.

For AS (aspies) for example, It might involve the primary colors as representing the most prominent aspect of AS, and when this primary colors mix with one another, they will represent the different trait and characteristics that a particular person with AS might display. This is a very broad concept, but with a bit of research, some one could actually design a diagram or better yet an app, that would intricately illustrate the complex aspects of AS. I think color is a good device to use, because every time I think of any type of learning difficulty, the color wheel comes to mind. This learning difficulties are as varied in type and severity as the colors and their temperatures in a color wheel. Any ideas...?

I am what you would describe as 'high functioning' aspi, as much as i don't agree with the label. My main shortfall is memory, I can make a huge list of things I wanted to do but couldn't because of it. I can't remember (again memory problem hahaha) which one of you said this, about how you have all the information but you don't know how to appropriately make use of it. I'm the exact opposite. With whatever little information I have, I can be very productive. Starting a new job or department for the first time is a living nightmare to me, because when i'm overloaded with a lot of new info at once, my brain just shuts down, and I'm unable to pick up anything. I also struggle with arbitrary info, for me to memorise it, it has to have some kind of logic, narrative or story to it.

To the OP, I really think you got hired for a reason. I have been in your position so many times. Where I doubt myself and think, 'i'm not made for this, in fact I'm not made for anything'. But recently I'm learning more and more about myself, and I know what my challenges are and i try to be extra prepared to deal with them next time i'm confronted with them. Taking notes helps me immensely, and I only recently started doing that. I know it might look a bit stupid to be constantly taking notes, while they all naturally absorb everything, but I really don't care. In some cases, just the act of taking notes actually helps me take in information.
So Just try and consciously observe yourself and find out what your difficulties are. When you pay close attention to challenges you come cross in any given day, you'll find a pattern emerging. You might find that most of them are caused by one single short coming, then try to come up with solution to compensate or better prepare yourself next time.



Last edited by Mirage99 on 08 Nov 2015, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BeaArthur
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08 Nov 2015, 12:12 pm

Well congratulations Retro on getting that commendation!

I think I see some cognitive biases in your appraisal that do not serve you well. You seem convinced that everybody else has an easier time remembering the pass codes and such than you do, and that when co-workers point out you are doing something wrong, they think you're incompetent.

I'm not in a tech field but right now my organization is undergoing some platform migrations and upgrades that I personally think are being managed very badly. They have not allotted enough tech talent to support the changes they are making, they've lost key employees but not replaced them, they ask us to test things without assigning us the required access and then when they make any server changes the same thing happens again, and we are undergoing multiple changes (email, accounting software, virtual environments and OS's) at once. It really feels a lot of the time like a big cl*st*rf*ck. (Asterisks mine!)

I get through this by trying to maintain good-natured, by making occasional reports to management about impossible tasks (test something without being granted access, say), and most importantly I feel, by mutual support between me and my other 2 co-workers. When I tell one of them they are attempting something the wrong way, I'm trying to help them, not criticize them. I take pains to do it non-publicly so no one's humiliated. When they see me doing something wrong, I thank them for telling me.

Anyway, I can agree that your work environment sounds very vexing, but disagree that you're too stupid. Give yourself points for things you do well, and try to kick some praise in your coworkers' direction from time to time. (It also never hurts to do this to managers, particularly in public situations like a meeting - thank them for their patience or praise them for pulling something off well.)


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FizzyOrange
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08 Nov 2015, 7:24 pm

Mirage99 wrote:
I can't remember (again memory problem hahaha) which one of you said this, about how you have all the information but you don't know how to appropriately make use of it.


That was I. I do have a problem with memory retention of certain things. But when I learn something, I have a hard time applying it. On jobs, I don't know what to do next after a certain task is complete. I wish that they'd give step by step instructions because I'm almost lost when specific instructions aren't given.

To RetroGamer87:

It's great that you got that experience! See, you are great at what you do. I agree with what Be a Arthur said. That's GREAT advice and something I didn't even think to do. It seems like he's saying you should develop work relationships.

Also, I wasn't fired from a journalism job. I interned and learned it was a difficult work environment. I was actually fired from a cashier position at a home improvement store. My entire working life is filled with different positions. I wanted to find something that was a perfect fit. I struggled in all.



RetroGamer87
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09 Nov 2015, 5:16 am

Mirage99 wrote:
I actually had this idea to design a new diagram that'll better demonstrate the complex aspects of Autism and AS, one for each.

For AS (aspies) for example, It might involve the primary colors as representing the most prominent aspect of AS, and when this primary colors mix with one another, they will represent the different trait and characteristics that a particular person with AS might display.
That sounds very interesting and I'm sure you're qualified to design this chart. It's your idea so no one can design it better than you. The best time to start is now. Perhaps I could apply apply my very limited knowledge of programming to make it into an app but at the moment I can only make apps for PC, not smartphone.
BeaArthur wrote:
Well congratulations Retro on getting that commendation!
Thanks :)
BeaArthur wrote:
try to kick some praise in your coworkers' direction from time to time.
That's a good idea. I used to think I could impress people by boasting about my accomplishments. It wasn't until very late in life that I realized the cool people are the ones who praise everyone around them, not just themselves. I actually learned this from reading How to Win Friends and Influence People :lol:
BeaArthur wrote:
It also never hurts to do this to managers, particularly in public situations like a meeting - thank them for their patience or praise them for pulling something off well.
I will do this a bit too, I must be careful not to make it look like I'm sucking up to them. I already thanked them for making accommodations for me by letting me have irregular hours so I could attend classes at the technical college across the road from the office.


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09 Nov 2015, 11:58 am

I hate to suggest this, but do you think you may not be interested in programming?

I have a BS in Management Information Systems, and I've taken classes in CSS, .NET, #C, BASIC and long ago in HTML geocities-style. I've gotten an A or A+ in everything I've done. I couldn't tell you a d*mn thing about it...None of that stuff sticks. I understand it well enough to understand programmers when they talk, so when I was a technical writer I could translate the coding changes into things regular people could understand. But I wouldn't say I enjoyed any of that. In fact it was dull and my life was empty when I worked there.

When I got into sociology, I found that I could read the ancient theory books, understand them, and be able to bring up points and flip right to the applicable page in discussions. I didn't have to pretend to have gotten it like most of the others were doing. That was just my thing, whereas programming was not.

Maybe something else is your thing?