Page 1 of 1 [ 5 posts ] 

JohnConnor
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 358
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

30 Nov 2015, 10:57 pm

Will post in this tomorrow. Didn't have time. Tired right now.



hmk66
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2015
Posts: 450

01 Dec 2015, 3:24 am

In case of Theory of Mind, I must think of the Sally-and-Ann-test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oazK2fkRU1A

People, I think especially young children, with autism have a hard time to answer this correctly. Sally would think that the block is still in the box, at least she would look there, when she is looking for it. I (with ASD) would pass the test successfully: Sally would look in the box, and not in the basket.



SocOfAutism
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Mar 2015
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,029

01 Dec 2015, 1:30 pm

Before anyone gets too into thinking they don't have a theory of mind, this has been debunked. I can go find the references if anyone wants.

But basically it's been found that theory of mind depends on your understanding of what KIND of person the other person is. It is especially difficult for an oppressed minority to have a theory of mind with the oppressed majority. A black person has no idea what it's like to be white. A woman has no idea what it's like to be male. It also has a lot to do with your grasp of language. People who have great language skills might pass a theory of mind test, even if they're autistic. Whereas a neurotypical person with poor language skills might fail.



xile123
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 495
Location: australia

14 Feb 2016, 5:34 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
Before anyone gets too into thinking they don't have a theory of mind, this has been debunked. I can go find the references if anyone wants.

But basically it's been found that theory of mind depends on your understanding of what KIND of person the other person is. It is especially difficult for an oppressed minority to have a theory of mind with the oppressed majority. A black person has no idea what it's like to be white. A woman has no idea what it's like to be male. It also has a lot to do with your grasp of language. People who have great language skills might pass a theory of mind test, even if they're autistic. Whereas a neurotypical person with poor language skills might fail.


I guess that explains a lot.



Finalfate
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 31

16 Feb 2016, 5:23 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
Before anyone gets too into thinking they don't have a theory of mind, this has been debunked. I can go find the references if anyone wants.

But basically it's been found that theory of mind depends on your understanding of what KIND of person the other person is. It is especially difficult for an oppressed minority to have a theory of mind with the oppressed majority. A black person has no idea what it's like to be white. A woman has no idea what it's like to be male. It also has a lot to do with your grasp of language. People who have great language skills might pass a theory of mind test, even if they're autistic. Whereas a neurotypical person with poor language skills might fail.


You're probably referring to empathy, which is not the same as theory of mind. Theory of mind means realizing that others don't have the same base of information as you. Just because I know the ball is in the basket, does not mean everyone knows that. Just because I know that going to concerts is stressful for me, does not mean that everyone else is expected to know that concerts cause me great stress. Therefore, I should not be upset when someone asks me to go to a concert.

Drawing any conclusions beyond that related to empathy or mind reading would indeed be bogus. Theory of mind is obviously more related to age than diagnosis, but ASD causes developmental delays, and this is one example of one delay that may or may not present in a younger person with ASD. All children develop healthily at different rates, which explains that not everyone who fails at a given age should be diagnosed with anything. But most, (read:most) adults with ASD or otherwise should pass these tests.

A more complex example of theory of mind would be the possibility that others can forget information. Adults of all kinds get stressed or angry because their spouse or the drive-thru employee forgets things, but it happens to everyone, it's the way brains work.