Blue Collar versus White Collar

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The problem with blue collar work in Singapore is that pay is ridiculously low, often at a level that does not really provide a living wage. In other parts of the world where organized labor has been effective, wages for blue collar work tends to be much higher, especially for skilled labor. I wonder if I would not have been better off learning a trade rather than going to college, getting a degree and heading down a road that led to so much pain and frustration. Is skilled blue collar work any easier for the Aspie than say an office type job where one has to successfully navigate the hidden mines or face career destruction? Being unemployed at 35, I wonder if I should not retrain in some other field beyond the accounting and finance that I already know. But what would I do? A plumber? An electrician? A mechanic? To be honest, pride does get in the way. Even though I need the money, I think I would rather starve to death than become a grease monkey. And so death it is then. It is just a matter a time anyway.

White collar work does not necessarily pay more than blue collar - in fact, having done both, I can say that I made more 20 years ago doing "blue collar" work than I do now in a "white collar" job after having earned several college degrees. It's all about the level of the job and the specifics.

If you hate accounting and finance, and there's some trade at which you could excel, go for it. There's no hard-and-fast rule of the universe that you have to "be" one thing or another forever, as far as work goes.

I've often wished I would have had the option to go to trade school, but, being female, that was not an option when I was younger (there were no female mechanics, electricians, etc - you could train, IF you could find a school that would allow you in, but nobody would hire you to work).

Work is work. All work is honorable. A good brake job on a car may save a carload of children's lives.

Good luck.

Not in Singapore. Our trade unions were neutered in the name of peace and providing a stable environment that would attract foreign investments. Most people would not realize just how little blue collar workers in Singapore earned or they may not care. I do not hate accounting and finance, but cannot see how someone like myself can function in the environment that I would need to be in to do that kind of work. Not that working with my hands would afford the solitude that I crave. Thanks for the encouragement though but I am not someone who deserves any pity. Not only was I once a well paid member of the financial elite, I have lived my life in the past five years on my savings and investments.

Not working is a choice I have made and one that I will stick with even if I end up starving to death. In my mind we all die at some point and I would like it to be sooner rather than later. If I run out of money and cannot buy food and end up dying, it is not suicide. I did not kill myself because I died of natural causes. But there is no danger of that happening so please do not worry. It is just something I think about because I believe that suicide would be wrong.

Jesus worked as a carpenter.

I don't figure I'm any better than him.

Zeno, I work in the oil industry as an engineer and occasionally work with offshore riggers/blue collar workers especially when offshore. I know how much these riggers make and it's a lot compared to the average UK salary, even more than many engineers! For example I was speaking to a rigger today who is on £53,000 a year. On top of that they get plenty of holidays.

I recently completed a course on rigging and the training is pretty easy - I have limited experience with rigging/lifting but scored just as well as many experienced riggers who were on the course. Practical experience is hard to come by though, but if you're determined enough you should be able to make it. The one thing I liked about the course was how all the riggers were more jovial, easy going and treated each other with respect - opposed to engineers who are pretty arrogant and too competitive. One rigger told me that engineers look down on them where he works, which is not surprising - it happens everywhere.

Anyway, at 35 yr's old I believe you can still make it as a rigger. I reckon it's pretty good move for an aspie, as these riggers will be working with different riggers all the time, going offshore on a regular basis and getting long holidays. Usually when offshore, especially during transit, there won't be much for you guys to do so you'll be pretty much free to do what you like (eg gym, multiplayer gaming, internet, dvd's etc) and when working on the job you'll basically be following stringent guidelines where everything is usually pretty straightforward. Supervisor would guide you if there are any issues. Hey, if you're lucky I might have written the guidelines and checking the operation.

Typically you'll make atleast £250+ a day offshore on top of any company salary.

You could also become a welder - these guys make good money too when welding offshore pipelines on barges or reel vessels.

The negatives about this profession are the long hours (12 hour shifts when offshore), safety (although the HSE is so strict these days that there are few casualties, but depends where in the world you work ie North Sea > West Africa) and long time away from family & friends (but you're an aspie so this isn't a major thing is it?).

I know times must be especially hard for you right now with how the financial markets are going. Hope you find a decent job soon.

Oh, one more thing. Check out my earlier post on making money from betting. Could help, although I'm not sure how gambling regulations in your country change things. Also check out this.

Hope this post has helped.

Thanks Gambit. Markets have been tough and I have taken a beating, but that is more because of actions I have taken against the godfathers of the Singapore market than anything else. I did something few have done: filed criminal complaints that could potentially indict high ranking members of Singapore's financial elite. The sort of criminality that has gone on is unbelievable and Singapore likes to tell people how clean and law abiding we are. What I have done is dangerous and people have already threatened to sue me for defamation, which in Singapore has a very loose and slippery definition. They would probably have done a lot more by now if not for the fact that my activities have made me known to a lot of people. But what is the worst that they can do? Take away my money unlawfully? Put a bullet through my head? So be it, I will go the full distance with them.

As you might imagine, autism or no autism, the sort of corporate finance work I used to do is no longer open to me. Yesterday, for the first time in five years, I applied for a job. It was with a prestigious private equity group operating in China, the sort of gig that only the very top bankers would have a shot at landing. Instead of sending the headhunters a resume, I talked about my activist activities on the Singapore market. Even through the flat medium of email, her shock was palpable. So much for that test balloon!

I have heard stories of Aspie riggers who have gotten into big trouble. It depends on who you meet. Everyone is drawn to the work because of the money and the result is a very mixed bag. If there is a bully on board, then it can get very hard for the less socially protected members of the crew. Blue collar, white collar, human beings are still the same. But at least when doing blue collar work, the focus is on operating machinery or getting a job done as opposed to getting into some kind of harmonious flow with everyone else. I am happy that you have completed your training. With oil prices at where they are, you should have no trouble landing jobs.

Not working is a conscious decision that I have made. I started out only intending to take a year off but in that time I realized that there were certain things happening to my mind which previously I had put down to stress. That was before I discovered that I was autistic. Now I know that I experience periodic meltdowns that affect everything from how I crap to how I sweat. It will not stop and last night was the first time I slept since last Friday. There is a new flu bug flying around and of course I was hit. As a consequence, the last few days have been hell. Money or no money, it is this that drives me to despair. I also believe that no matter what work I choose to do, the impairment caused by this will either cause me to lose the job or else cause me to breakdown trying to cope.

Zeno,

Bad luck about the flu. I hope you recover soon. What sort of impairments have you developed and what makes you so sure these are long term? You say the flu is what causes you despair, however I remember the last time I chatted to you on this forum, and you were as gloomy then too, and this was before the flu. It’s interesting you caught this flu – I reckon most aspies have weak immune systems and we’re more susceptible to these viruses.

I don’t know you or your situation that well, but the general glumness in your posts suggests that you’re in a long losing battle with these ‘godfathers’ and you probably know it. It must be contributing to your decline in health, both physical and mental. So I ask you, why bother with it? Are you really motivated by moral reasons alone or are there other strong reasons? Whatever the reasoning, it is clearly flawed if it’s leaving you in this depressed state. Even if you win would it be worth it for all the pain it has caused you? It almost comes across like you want to go down like some martyr.

You were negative about my profession recommendation. You are right that you may encounter a bully as with almost any profession, but this industry is tougher on bullying than others, and experienced riggers are all about getting the job done cleanly without fuss and pis$ing off anyone. Like I said an aspie will be working with different people all the time, so 1. Relationships won’t be long enough to establish the aspie as a misfit (which may have lead to some mistreatment) 2. , The aspie can choose the duration of the jobs he/she wants to work. For the North Sea the operations are relatively short. 3. The aspie can choose to work night shift and therefore be noticed less. 4. Riggers are generally cool people – just make sure you’re nice towards them too. 5. It’s a multi cultured profession – The aspie can and will work with different cultures to their own where their deficits could be excused as simply down to their culture/background.

Because Aspies have common experiences, I can sense where your negativity is coming from because I’ve been in a fundamentally similar situation to you. I reckon the negativity is rooted in a resignation towards life because you are aware you have autism, the fact you are so seriously handicapped from doing important things others do effortlessly in any competitive environment. And there is no treatment for autism and unlikely ever to be one. I'd get those feelings whenever I had a bad experience because of my autism, and I’d blame everything on autism to console myself. The problem is once you start thinking like this it can snowball and you’ll be on a path to depression and suicide. I’ve learnt to accept my limitations – this is very important because it means lowering your expectations in life and that is hard.

If you really don’t want to work and are struggling with money, then you can still make money living as you are. Just refer to the links in my previous post for examples of what you could do. If you can’t succeed here, then I think if and when you are healthy you should swallow your pride and get a job, your first in 5 yrs, and if not in your current country where you’re having problems, then in another where your autism is more likely to be excused because of your foreign background.

About working on oil wells/rigs - I grew up in the oilfield. That is dangerous work. It pays so well because you can die doing it, if you are not careful.....

There were no intentions to be dismissive of your recommendations Gambit, I appreciate it. But I have heard of horror stories that usually stem from the isolation of most oil work sites and the close confinement that the crew is subjected to. It is a situation that can be potentially dangerous to the Aspie if they meet the wrong people. Unlike in a city, there is no escape until your term of duty is over. However, I would definitely agree with you that the guys who work as riggers are probably a lot cooler than the stiffs who want to pretend to boss them around.

Giving up on my little crusade? Are you sure you are not with Singapore’s Internal Security Department? They can take my money and they can take my life, but this is one battle that I will not give up. Even if the authorities inexplicably decide not to prosecute, it will not end there. Just based on simple analysis of public information alone, it is clear that serious fraud has been committed. I do this because I want to believe that when I die, I can say without shame that I have not simply gazed into my navel and lived a selfish life. If these people are not stopped, the rot will ultimately corrupt and destroy my country. Living in Europe, you may not feel the corrosive impact of bad neighbors because every country in Western Europe shares certain common values, but in Singapore where our neighbors often have utterly decadent social and political mores, and to which our wealth is an irresistible draw, the situation for me is very different. You have no idea how far their influence extends already. Perhaps it has always been like that and I have simply been blissfully unaware, but now that I know, it will have to change.

Events of the last week have definitely affected me. I used to be a financial institutions group banker and the fact that Lehman was liquidated, Merrill was sold, AIG collapsed, and Morgan Stanley is now discussing with Wachovia (of all the banks in the United States!) has come as a complete shock to me. It all happened because of one man’s intransigence at Lehman, and his stupidity is still something that stuns me. The world has changed irrevocably in the last week, and the monetary basis of our present civilization is being tested in its most fundamental way, but I cannot say to you or to myself that it was for the better. What I do know is that it was totally unnecessary.

There are always ways for me to make money in Singapore. Private tutoring in Singapore is big business and with the grades that I have scored in addition to my natural articulateness, securing students will not be much of a problem. That would allow me to work independently and still earn a wage that can be substantial. Or I could just get a job. I have marketable skills in accounting and finance plus good computer skills in relatively scarce and in demand areas like VBA, so even though I am weird, there will be employers who will find what I can offer useful. But I do not want to work. I would rather be poor. Is that not what Jesus and Buddha taught, that we should seek poverty?

I would disagree that Aspies have common experiences or at least experiences that are completely analogous. We are on the spectrum but on different points of the spectrum. Even though autism can manifest in the same social difficulties, the physiological expression of autism can be very different. For instance, when I am in a meltdown, my gut actually stops working. It is not constipation or diarrhea, the muscles in my gut just stop working. I think it has to do with how my autonomic nervous system gets affected. This is something I have not heard many people talking about. And aside from all the other issues, this can really affect my life. If I do not spend an hour or two trying to discharge the contents of my bowel, the rest of my day will be spent in discomfort and pain. Before I discovered that I was autistic, I believed that my erratic bowel movements occurred because I was under intense stress at work and it wrecked havoc with my performance. But now that I know it will happen even though I am doing nothing and consume a largely vegetarian diet, is it appropriate for me to seek regular employment?

I really do appreciate talking to someone who has substantial things to say even though we disagree. Dying because I run out of money (no danger of that in the near term) is natural, and there is nothing wrong with it. Perhaps you might conclude that my pathology has moved from clinical depression to something more disturbing and serious, but that is fine by me. You see I do not know why anyone of us should hang on to life. But then again I was once in medical school and spent a year of my life dissecting a corpse. When you go face to face with death, it changes your conception of what your body is and how much of that is life.

I think some of the safety measures undertaken by the oil&gas industry post the piper alpha incident are overkill, but the fact is the statistics in this industry do not lie and the changes have resulted in a safer industry in the North Sea, and better safety records for companies, particularly for the company I work for. Regrettably other parts of the world are behind Europe in HSE and of course should do more to ensure offshore personnel are as safe as possible...

Yes Zeno, it comes across like a moral crusade. From an outsiders perspective your actions come across very odd. And I would even say irrational, in the sense that you’re willing to endure suffering for seemingly little personal gain, imho (I'm no saint yeah? heh...). But, it is your choice and you are doing society a favour, so I wish you the best of luck in your fight.

I should have qualified my statement about shared autism experiences by saying certain experiences lead to similar psychological feelings. But this was just to introduce my main point about autism resentment, which I find hard to believe won’t affect majority of us, and which sadly I didn’t really get a response to.

If Mr Fuld was making £22m/yr he can’t be that stupid, eh? Ok, he’s made a fool of himself today, but the general public will forget about him in a few months time when he’s in the Caribbean basking in the sun. What I’m appalled by is how tax payer’s money is now being used to bail out these incompetent companies. And the silly bonuses this industry dishes out every other year should reflect long term performance. I think I’m expressing the general opinion in my country (UK).

(Btw, world markets are going up so I guess that’s brining a smile to your face.)

“But I do not want to work. I would rather be poor. Is that not what Jesus and Buddha taught, that we should seek poverty?”

Strange comment. I’m oversimplifying but that view was/is cultivated by rulers/wealthy under guise of religion to control the poor, and to help to console them. I think you could be happy living in poverty, but it’s harder. Come to think of it it’s like asking if you can be happy as an autistic person, and my answer is the same, yes but it’s harder. It shouldn’t surprise anyone to see that a strong correlation exists between poverty/autism and depression/suicide. Discussing this topic is pretty depressing in itself, so I’d like this to be my last comment on this.

If I can't get into business school, I will go become an oil rigger. I have a BA in political science and I don't know if I will be able to get a job from that alone.

Gambit, I am actually quite insulted by what you have said. You do not know the facts and yet feel justified in saying that my actions are odd and irrational nor do you have any idea what it means to me financially. Morality and the law are two separate issues. The people I have filed complaints against have broken the law in very serious ways. Lying to the investing public is always illegal no matter the country. If the Singapore authorities choose not to act, then they too would be party to the crime. You tell me what I should do if I discover that the Singapore government is unwilling to uphold the law. What would you do? Can you live with yourself if you do nothing?

It is interesting that you should bring up the idea of happiness. Can cowards ever be happy? Can a man with no backbone ever be happy? Can a man who goes against his own convictions ever realize happiness?

Honestly, I am mystified by your comments. In reading what some people write, I sometimes do not get a sense that they are on the spectrum. Having social difficulties does not necessarily mean autism. Some people are just shy or have a schizoid personality. If you are on the spectrum, you would understand why holding down a job is so difficult. There are things that happen to an Aspie’s mind and body that makes it impossible to keep a normal schedule. Why else do you think that people with autism keep getting fired or else breakdown and end up going on disability? The choice of poverty is not really a choice. I cannot work because there will be times when I am simply not functional. The only kind of work that I can do would be one that allows me near complete independence to plan my own schedule. I can, and really, I am willing to work 80 hours a week, but not 80 regular hours a week. Imagine what would happen to an Aspie on a rig if he were to meltdown. But you do not think about it because I think that has never happened to you.

That’s brilliant Space. If you have any questions about the industry then let me know. Whatever you do best of luck!

Zeno,
I have tried to offer constructive advice to help you, not to start an argument. Of course, I know little about you or your situation, and I do state this in my previous posts. My comment about your fight with these ‘godfathers’ was based on how your comments on this have ‘come across’ so far. There is a difference between how something is perceived and the actual truth. But I have to admit that you haven’t said anything to change my perception from my previous post.

I’m not going to take the bait and comment on your ability to sense if someone is autistic by reading forum posts. What I will say regarding your 3rd paragraph is that autism is a complex spectrum disorder and challenges us in different ways, some more so than others. I have truly struggled at work with relationships, but have found strategies to cope. Just like the advantages I list for an aspie as a rigger, my role has similar advantages. If, however, I was in the finance industry as an accountant I think it would be a lot harder for me.

I honestly believe I have offered good advice in this thread. I hope somebody does take it up and finds it helpful.

Gambit, you truly have a gift for passive aggressiveness. Read through our exchange carefully and it will reveal a lot of yourself to you. Just because the oil and gas industry is right for you does not mean that it is right for everyone. If you resent me for holding this opinion, then so be it. But stop trying to pretend to be the good and wise one here.

You admittedly are in pitiful state. Your comments are a cocktail of a baffling crusade and admissions of hopelessness, depression and death. Here I am trying to offer you some hope, some good advice based on real experience, and you are arrogantly dismissive. Perhaps it is you who should reflect on our earlier exchanges, if your pride allows you; maybe it can help you to understand in some ways why you are in your long miserable plight.

Now we see the anger and resentment, good. When I was your age Gambit, I thought that I could change everything. If the job did not work, try another job. If the country made me feel uncomfortable, go to the far side of the globe. The results were always the same and I had to admit that there must be a problem with me. I wish you the best of luck Gambit, but I see a little bit of what I did in what you are doing. As well meaning and good your advice maybe, it is not suited for me, although I do hope that it will work out for you.