Kindergartener underchallenged at school? Skip a grade?

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O, no you misunderstand. It didn't work for me either. As I said previously, I didn't fit in socially. And my years in school were horrible at best. My point was that by skipping ahead, you get to college sooner, where you can actually find mature people. You see, in k-12, if you harass, bully, or threaten a fellow student, you get a slap on the wrist at best. As such, your average school is, as you described it, a social battlefield (full of sociopaths looking for an easy target). Whereas if you try that crap in college, they expel you. So you don't have that problem in college

But my point is that school is a social battlefield full of sociopaths no matter what grade your in. And your child is going to be an easy target regardless of what grade he is in. Holding a child back is only going to prolong the exposure another year. Why would you want to do that?

My life in school was pretty terrible and only got better when I started college early instead, maybe because college had the effect of weeding out some idiots. As a teacher, I hear people get discouraged from skipping grades/being homeschooled all the time because the child would miss out on "social aspects of schooling." As an aspie, that is the dumbest thing that I have ever heard, every time.

Grouping school children solely by age is a terrible idea. If you have a child with Asperger's syndrome, school is an even more terrible idea. Let your child skip as many grades as possible, and begin college classes as early as possible. If there is a Montessori school nearby, enroll him in that instead.

Notyetdeadfred and Tracker, the problem is that each child is different and they need to figure out, maybe by trial and error, where he is socially. I can see totally giving up on him socially if he really is getting bullied and he has no hope of being trained socially.

My son has a great time with the kids in the neighborhood or with homeschool kids almost every day. Only when they are all bunched together or there are agressive or insecure kids can he not play. I'm glad we didn't give up on him too early b/c he really wants to be social.

I am very saddened by your experiences, and my husband experienced the same. He was very suicidal through his teens and 20s. Actually into his 30s even. But we can't assume my son will have all the same situations. We have to take each situation as it is.

As aann correctly focused on, the original question was really if the behavior issues might result from academic boredom that can be improved with a skip. I think the answer to that is a solid no. Academic boredom is not usually why we're seeing our kids misbehave in class. Absolutely the kids will tell you it is, but it tends to have a lot more to do with developmental maturity, sensory issues, etc than course material. Move the child ahead and he'll feel the pressure to keep his head down more, and may respond to it so he doesn't disappoint you, but new challenges arise.

Kids are grouped by age in school because success relies heavily on developmental skills like tracking assignments, turning homework in on time, sitting quietly in a chair, and so on. I certainly have my complaints about that, but the answer can't be found in a skip. If that isn't a system your child can learn to thrive in, you homeschool or seek a private school with an alternative teaching philosophy, you don't just move spaces in the same system.

For parents concerned about their autistic children at school, here is what is going on inside the autistic brain at school:

School ---> Sensory Overload

Sensory Overload ---> Stress ---> Shutdown/Meltdown ---> Behavior Problems/Lack of Social and Intellectual Development

Intellectual Engagement/Challenge ---> Activation of the Task-Positive Network ---> Hyperfocus

Hyperfocus ---> Blockade of and Protection from Sensory Stimuli ---> Relaxation and Refreshment ---> Social and Intellectual Development

Each child varies in severity of sensory issues, shutdown/meltdown, hyperfocus, etc.

Academic boredom IS a huge problem for autistic children who are academically bored, much more so than for NT children who are academically bored. Looking at the above model, academic boredom ---> no activation of the task-positive network ---> no hyperfocus ---> no protection from sensory issues ---> sensory overload ---> stress ---> shutdown/meltdown ---> behaviors problems/lack of social and intellectual development. The NT brain dislikes boredom but can deal with it. The autistic brain hates boredom and cannot deal with its deleterious effects. When the NT brain is bored, the NT brain is bored. When the autistic brain is bored, the autistic brain is in pain and Hell. Heaven is hyperfocus - the thinking and the feeling of thinking. This is why we love our special interests. They are our staircases to Heaven. When an autistic child says that he is bored, very very very bored, you should employ autistic theory of mind to translate his words into these, "It hurts, a lot lot lot."

Listen to your children. Ditch the most obvious NT interpretation of their words and use autistic theory of mind instead.

This would be a reasonable arguement if the child were in 7th or 8th grade, but we're talking about a kindergartener here who is already one of the youngest in the class. The difference is skipping a year of middle school vs still having to go through all of middle school while being made more vulnerable (by being younger and smaller).

You have a valid point there. Kindergarten is, in general, not as bad as middle school (although I still didn't like it). As such, the benefits associated with skipping something like kindergarten are not nearly as much as skipping something like 4-10th grade.

However, I think the disagreement that is happening here is that the parents on this board are of the opinion that an autistic child can be happy and 'fit in socially' if given enough time, in the right grade, with proper supports. Which is why all of the 'dont skip' supporters are parents. Conversely, all of the autistic people are firmly in the 'skip as much as possible' camp because our view is that fitting in and being happy in school is impossible, irregardless of the grade.

My experience is that school just sucks in every grade, all the time, no matter what. And that is the experience of the vast majority of autistic people. If you want to, you can read threads like this one here which shows that: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt150292.html

To me, the idea of trying to make school work for an autistic child is like trying to make slave labor in the coal mines work for the slave. It doesn't matter which mine you put the slave in, or which pick axe you give him, he is still a slave working to death in the coal mine. It's going to suck no matter what. Likewise, moving a child about in school isn't going to make it suck any less (from my experience). This idea of having the child be 'less vulnerable' if they are held back a year is silly. The child is vulnerable because he is different and thus an easy target. Holding him back isn't going to make him any less strange, or any less of an easy target, its just going to add an extra year to the sentence. Now that extra year may be a year in kindergarten which isn't that bad comparatively. But it is still an extra year more than is absolutely needed for what is in my experience, no gain.

If things have changed since I went to school, and children are now being treated with respect like human beings, and no longer tormented by each other and the teachers then things might be different. If that is the case, then school might actually have some potential benefits worth sticking around for, and there may not be such a need to rush things. But I am somewhat skeptical of that view because human nature doesn't change. If my classmates and teachers treated me like crap when I was in school, then I don't think that the next generation of students and teachers will be all that different. And most of the younger people I talk to tell me that things have only gotten worse in the past decade due to NCLB.

Sorry to be such a downer, but my experience is that school is best avoided if possible, or shortened if not. I understand that might not have been your experience growing up, but your not autistic. You don't know what it's like to be reviled by your classmates while also dealing with an environment which was not made for you. My guess is that you probably don't look back at your school years and shudder or have flash backs every time you see a group of young children. For those of us who do, the idea of trying to intentionally prolong that experience is child abuse at best.

First of all, let's remember that a large number of parents here are on the spectrum, including myself. I didn't grow up with the benefit of a diagnosis - Asperger's didn't exist when I was in school - but I sure as heck understand how difficult school is for a kid with AS.

That being said, right now, my son - who is just the same as I was - is at this moment benefitting from supports and is learning social skills in school. If we'd realized that we needed to go outside of the school for an expert opinion earlier, we could have made things better earlier.

Yes, school will never be a good environment for my son - but he's going to run into these issues all through his life, and if he can learn them now, I'd rather he not wait until adulthood. I think we may not be 100% at this: but we are considerably closer than we were.

Every subject that isn't a top priority for my son meets the definition of "boring" simply because he isn't interested in it. But he still needed to learn to read when he didn't want to, and so on. And, face it, NO kindergartener relishes that the world no longer revolves around their desire to play; it is an adjustment for all kids, and how well it goes depends on their developmental maturity more than anything else. I'm just not hearing that the OP's child is so far advanced that the lack of academic challenge is the real problem, and if it isn't the real problem, a skip is no solution.

Tracker, you need to understand that kids like my son ARE happy in school. This is not the impossible dream like it was when schools didn't understand or try to accommodate AS. I see teachers in elementary regularly offering earphones to noise sensitive kids, and so on. Good schools are making things work for these kids. Not always, but more often than not. Totally different than just ten years ago. I vowed long ago that I would pull my son from school if it wasn't working for him, but that day just has never come.

Kindergarten is way too early to decide school is never going to work so you just get through as fast as you can. There are so many things to try first. So many. If there is a chance for a child to have a positive experience, don't you think that should be played out first? My son is having a positive experience because he has been with people who get it, who know what he needs, and are willing to do whatever it takes to make him thrive. It hasn't always been perfect, but it's been really good, and he is going to hit adult life much better off because of it.

With full respect, although it is very important for us NT parents to understand the painful school experiences of aspie adults, some NT parents know much more about modern schools. It depends on the school but you just can't compare the schools of Tracker's day, young though he is, to today. Not only do more professionals understand, kids do too. My area highschool graduated two aspies that I know of last year. The more disabled one had a wonderful part in the musical, Music Man, as the main character's side-kick. He was perfect. He was generally well accepted in school athough he struggled at time with his issues. The other fellow was extremely POPULAR! He is a great musician. I think what contributed most to his popularity is the personality and attitude of his family. They are always so positive and happy. He brought that to school. Not a perfect experience - some boys ragged on him for using a stall rather than a urinal, but that was the extent of the negativity. (His family goes to my church).

It would be a shame, a total shame, to give up on a kindergartener socially, having him skip grades soley to shorten # of years in school. I could only see it if the child was way ahead in absolutely every area of life, but this one has been identified as AS for some real reason. As long as the teacher can "activate the task-positive network" quoting bttnyr, address sensory issues, address social issues and support good behavior properly, there is no reason to throw him to the wolves. When he's with older kids, he won't get the jokes and that matters! Younger kids accept that for a longer period of time. Younger classes will have more smart but immature kids for him to connect with etc.

Back to behavior, it looks to me that the OP needs an IEP meeting to discuss the child's needs and what the school can do about them.

I joined the discussion because I have a daughter who is 1, and I recently discussed with my wife whether she could skip kindergarten, if she turned out to be like me.

Like I said earlier, I am a teacher, so I'm not referring to the way that school systems were "in my day." My opinion is still "get him out of there." If that involves skipping grades, fine. The best alternative would be a Montessori school or homeschooling, if available.

I actually find this subject quite fascinating. For some time now I have wondered if it is really possible for a child with Asperger's Syndrome to actually get through the school system without it being too much of an ordeal. Whilst I have seen posts from parents who say their child is doing okay, and are quite positive about the school experience:

i) usually these comments come from parents of younger children. I see far fewer positive comments from parents with children at senior school where it usually gets much tougher

ii) does the child feel as positive about the school experience as the parent appears to?

Whilst I am sure there are some really good schools out there - there are many which, whilst not necessarily 'bad' schools - simply are not suited to the child with AS. I frequent many forums similar to this one - and the posts to this effect are too numerous to count.

So then I come back to the most fundamental of questions. Is school the right place to educate the child with AS - ever?

I have a 21 year old Aspergers nephew who succesfully made it to the end of high school and went on to study Accounting at uni. I have a 15 year old aspergers daughter who was bullied so badly she spent 18 months suicidal with Major Depressive Disorder until her point of view changedd and she decided that she wanted to be a nurse and highschool was nothing but a cesspool of insecure teens trying to out 'cool' one another. She is now doing beautifully, tolerates the other kids but has some great relationships with the teachers.

And then I have an 11 year old Aspergers son with a variety of issues who cannot be catered for in mainstream schooling so we school him via distance ed.

So, I guess it depends on the child to a large degree.

I have a 21 year old Aspergers nephew who succesfully made it to the end of high school and went on to study Accounting at uni. I have a 15 year old aspergers daughter who was bullied so badly she spent 18 months suicidal with Major Depressive Disorder until her point of view changedd and she decided that she wanted to be a nurse and highschool was nothing but a cesspool of insecure teens trying to out 'cool' one another. She is now doing beautifully, tolerates the other kids but has some great relationships with the teachers.

And then I have an 11 year old Aspergers son with a variety of issues who cannot be catered for in mainstream schooling so we school him via distance ed.

So, I guess it depends on the child to a large degree.

<<<<This.

My son is 11, if it matters. He did have an absolutely horrible time in school - UNTIL we got the right supports in place. This year seems to be going quite well...

I have an 11 year old son who is homeschooling at the moment because we can't find the right supports for him yet. I'm pretty sure that putting him with kids a year older wouldn't help. Because we aren't finding the right solution, we are changing the direction of schooling altogether so we can meet his individual needs.

Developmentally, he's behind the kids his age. Intellectually he's years ahead the kids his age. His executive functioning is abysmal. Skipping a grade would not help this dichotomy at all.

I am not in the camp that thinks school is or isn't the right solution for any one child (I'm seeing some posts that seem to say "one experience should be generalized to all"). That said, I see many solutions that are far superior to skipping, even for those folks who say they are in favor. For instance, would those people advocating skipping have been happier homeschooling, learning what they were interested in at their own pace? What about an AS focused school which helps get a handle on the executive functioning deficits while allowing academic progress. All of these are options I would prefer to skipping.

I think that some of the answers given here are coming from a pretty black and white perspective of staying in h3ll or skipping. From that perspective, I would agree, get out ASAP. However, if there are more shades of gray available, I would be inclined to explore them before I committed to a 12 year long decision.