Why the obsession with older kids? Your Aspie view wanted.

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I know many of you have experienced this scenario and it's typical of AS, but I'm just wondering how to better understand it and help my son out. He is almost 5, by the way.

He does have some friends who are his own age, and he will play some with them. But if older kids are around--even strangers, he has NO interest in the friends he knows, even though he may like them.

Here's a scenario which has played itself out a few times. We are playing at the outdoor kids park with one of his classmates, a neighbor friend the same age, and his sister (20 months younger). Play usually involves pretty simple 'chase' games, looking at ants, or just climbing on the play structures. Suddenly, a group of boys a couple years older come to the park and start playing tag or 'shoot-out' games. My son immediately tries to butt into their games, much to their annoyance. Sometimes they'll humor him. Often he 'tries' to play like they are, but ends up smacking them too hard or in general not reading social cues and making himself a bit of an annoyance. Often the boys are 'bullies' or real little rude boogers (sorry, it's true, and none of their moms around), and last time the 'games' ended up with my son crying and feelings hurt . . . though he just didn't understand that he was not 'getting' it and that he was actually a part of the problem by annoying them with his behavior/play. (So odd because he is very shy, but with older kids and play he isn't, he is quite intrusive.)
However, try as I might, as long as those boys are there, I cannot get him to just go back over and play with our friends/the kids his age.

(I find nothing wrong with him having older friendships . . . he has a few close ones who are wonderful in playing with him when we do see them. It's just that he doesn't recognize/read the play or the playmates well.)

What I did with the most recent incident that didn't end well was try to explain to him about people who make 'good' friends and people who because of their behavior or style of playing typically do not make 'good' friends. And if he feels like the play is not going well and he is not happy, he should try to go back to playing with his friends. Well, he just insisted on going home.

I'm not trying to instantly 'solve' this problem necessarily, but just to understand the situation from his point of view better so I can help him develop some 'feelers/insight'. What should I / shouldn't I do to help him? Don't want to hover and yet don't want to have him unwittingly create these situations that end with him quite unhappy. And his usual playmates don't know why he abandons them to play with the older kids and is suddenly not interested in them at all.

(Social stories have only marginally worked with him. I'm thinking doing a 'Lego' play-acting with Lego guys may help. Thoughts?)

I don't know that my experience is pertinent, but in case it helps: for me it was a pragmatic speech issue: older kids talked more like adults, and adult language doesn't grow, develop and change. I was looking for a constant, understandable script I could follow.

So, as kids my age developed and their interests/subjects of conversation/catchphrases and slang changed, I'd get left out. I could, however, dazzle and charm any given adult with my advanced vocabulary, the one trick I had (that never worked with kids.)

I wouldn't discourage him from it, it will probably be important to him later in life.

The thing is, that much of the time the only chance we have of actually connecting with someone, is going to be if they're older than ourselves. All my life, I have had friends older than myself. (currently I'm 22 but many of my friends are in their 30's or 40's, although I have some under that, but not many)

He is going to have more chance of understanding older people than kids of his own age. He is going to have a better chance of interacting with them than of kids his own age. Much of the time even when we are about 10 or 11, we get on with adults much better than children. Some of us had an ability to use language or understand concepts well beyond our years and usually the only people we can connect to are others who are the same like that.

He's having trouble because some part of him instinctively understands that he won't be able to connect with kids his own age, so he's going looking for someone that he can connect to. He just hasn't found those people yet, and he's still looking. I wouldn't be surprised if when he's 8, he's hanging out with 10 /11 year olds if he finds and can keep friends at school. Let him keep looking, eventually he will find some people he can connect to, and those people will probably be some of his fondest memories when he's older.

Even now, I cannot hang out with your average 22 year old, it drives me crazy as I have absolutely nothing in common with them except for the year we were born. Most of my best memories from when I was younger was from friends who were older than myself, and they did keep me sane. With those who were my age, the only time we interacted was for them try to bully me.

Yes, I won't/don't discourage him from it. He does, as I said, have some very nice friends who are older than he is and who he plays with quite well. It's just that when we ARE playing with friends his age, and these 'bully' type kids come around, I don't know why he keeps persisting trying to play with them, even though they don't treat him nicely. I know part of it is him not reading the social cues. But I wish I could somehow teach him how to 'recognize' who is 'good play material' at that moment. I guess it will just take time and experience . . .

Older kids are inherently cool. A 'big kid' can seem like a total rock star. He may be willing to put up with more from the older children because their company is more desireable, or maybe the good experienced he's had with older friends has set up expectations for him that older children are good companions.
I remember when I was younger it was harder to handle 'being different' around peers because if I wasn't autistic I'd likely be just like them, but when I spent time with people who had other big differences with me (age, background, other disability) it was a little bit easier because there were other reasons for me to be different than them.
It's difficult to control who kids want to hang out with. I hope the lego play helps you communicate about this social stuff with your son

My son (6) does the same thing. He will even try to play with teenagers that are "hanging out" rather than playing. He also tries to play with toddlers. He talks to the teenagers and the toddlers exactly the same - at his level, not theirs.
I don't know what to do about it, besides watch him like a hawk so the bigger kids don't mistreat him. I've seen a few teenagers look around when he's talking to them, see me staring at them from a distance, and then be nice to him. Telling him not to approach them in the first place doesn't seem to do any good.

When I was little, I would always gravitate toward the older kids too. My theory was that because adults aren't mean to me, and tend to treat me nice and "accept" me, that the closer someone is to being an adult, the better chance I have of them being nice to me. I also knew that sometimes older kids feel "big sister/brother" like toward you, almost like you are a mascot. I was fine with that. I also thought I might hear about things I wasn't supposed to, like what was really going on over at the Coleman's house, or why Mr Mackey really wasn't home anymore, etc, because the older kids knew and I knew they talked about it. This was of course, with the kids in my neighborhood. Because they were the first kids I actually played with, and they were older, I knew that they would "look out for" me and I just assumed that all older kids would too.

Thats the only reason I can think of. I never really cared for being "cool" until I was a teenager or almost a teenager.

I felt the most comfortable around adults, and even as a young child I had a good vocabulary and could carry on a conversation with them very easily and they found out pretty quick that talking to me like the child I was or asking me about regular kid things just wasn't going to cut it. It was a plus in some ways, but in most ways that was a drawback.

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one of the very basics of autism is a failure to develop peer relationships. the exact why or how to "fix" that i dont think anyone has discovered yet. these older kids arent your sons peers, so the inherent autistic difficulties are lessened.

my youngest has never really interacted with his peers. he just doesnt. not interested, doesnt want anything to do with them. 2 years in the same head start class with many of the same kids, and he still never played with them or talked to them. this year for kindergarten he is in a self contained classroom with all 2nd and 3rd graders, and after being in there for a few months now he interacts and plays with them. he looks much more like a typical kid in there, but put him in a room with other kindergarteners, and he freaks out.

i think what you are currently doing is the only real route to take. teach him how friends act. go over social stories or scripted conversations for various situations that may come up when hes playing with older kids. make sure he knows that mean people arent worth playing with. and watch him like a hawk. reading peoples motives may never be something hes able to do well, but you can start teaching him now how to evaluate behavior of others.

The above post made me think. I guess it is "peer" relationships that I've always had a problem with. If I feel that someone is my peer, especially socially, I don't really pursue relationships with them. I tend to pursue relationships to be friends with people who I consider either lower or higher on the social scale than me. I also tend to befriend my teenagers' friends. I will make friends with an older person as well. I don't know why. I guess it's the fear of being judged negatively or something. The social scale doesn't matter to me, but I suppose I feel subconsciously that I'd have more of a chance with someone with less than me, either money, morals, education, etc. I feel more comfortable with people who are "marginal" I suppose. If you put me in the room with a bunch of Junior League women, I'll clam up and feel uncomfortable and not know what to say, how to sit, etc. When I went to jail I was the social butterfly and talked to all the ladies and we all got along great. I don't know why this is.

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I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.

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I guess it kind of makes sense, in that . . . if he likes/knows certain adults, he is comfortable around them and 'himself' in the best way. Around his peers, he really doesn't know what to do, although that is getting better. All in all, he'd rather be building robots or legos by himself. I'm sure, in some ways, that will never change for him. But at the moment, I hope to help him figure out who isn't being a 'friend' and who is. To recognize social situations and choose a 'safe' place for socializing. Just to help him navigate the world of friends.
Not to 'hover' too much . . . but I definitely don't want him to think bullying and rough/rude play is the norm.

If you scroll down here (click on the word "here"), there is a section on bullying, including one called "my daughter wants to be friends with the mean girl", which might have some good advice. Does any of that help at all?

I found autism forces you to learn in one or two ways. The first way is putting your head down, and learning as you go. The definition of the hard way. I did the exact same thing as a kid. I would always try to hang out with the older kids, and typically i would be harrassed, made fun of and hurt. Thats how i learn. The problem is there was always something missing that i never could learn. My mom can attest to the many attempts as for every day for years i would come home and cry about how kids treated me.

Growing up i found another way to teach myself that has had great success for me, and for some of the autistic's i worked with. Instead of teaching the kid rules, teach him the overview of the system. For instance if you tell me "only hang around X type of people" I'm left with "why" and "what classify's X type of people" (even in first grade i thought like that, i just didnt know the word for classify). Instead try teaching him realisiticly, with examples, what good friends are and do, what bad friends are and do, why we have friends and why its important to pick good ones. Keep in mind kids always like to play with older kids, because it makes them feel older. But atleast he can understand why he's getting hurt, which in autism means everything. In case your confused i'll write a really short example of how i would say it to another autistic....

"Remember when you where playing with good friend, you had fun and didnt cry. Good friends don't make you cry. Good friends are there to help you out and have fun. Remember when you where playing with bad friends (older kids at park), it may of been fun, but remember you cried and where upset and hurt. Bad friends can make you cry and hurt your feelings. I know you want to play with older kids but is it worth making you cry and being upset while you play with them? You get to choose your friends, so make sure they are good and make you happy."

Yes its long, yes we have a hard time understanding small precise things. However if we understand the basic's of the whole, then we learn the finite points super fast!

I had and still have very similar experiences. The only people my age I've been able to socialize with effectively in person have been people with very above average intellegence and one girl (who is still one of my best friends) who wouldn't take "no" for an answer and happens to be one of the few people I've met who has "the Touch" (the ability to touch me without me freaking out). When I skipped a grade, it became much easier for me to interact with people much older than me, especially when I entered high school the next year. I naturally gravitated towards people who were at least two to five years older than me, and now that I'm in college, the age gap has grown even more. I also get along very well with young children like my brother, but I don't usually see very many of them except when I pick him up from his preschool. Most of the people I interact with now as "peers" range in age from nineteen to twenty-seven (I will be eighteen in about two weeks).

I even feel more comfortable dating people who are a little older than me partly because people my age are usually idiots, and partly because I need someone mature enough to work with me on relationship issues and talk with me about things I actually care about. For a while, that could have been a problem, but soon it won't be anymore because I will be an "adult."

I wonder if this is related to most Autistic people's connection with animals rather than humans. I also have another thought--maybe your son is bored by the simple games that his friends play and wants to play more difficult games like the older kids. This would most likely be an aspect of his attraction to older kids because of his Autism.

Maybe for now your son's compulsion to spend time with people much older than him causes difficulties, but in the long run I think it will help him. My experience has been that older people are usually more willing to accept my social difficulties ("it's okay; he's younger") and help me with my mistakes. Some of them are even under the impression that I'm wise and mature, although I think they're just distracted by the way I talk (Little Professor). Younger kids are also more accepting of me because my social skills are closer to their level, so they don't notice anything "wrong." Hopefully, this will help your son as well.