Finger Guns

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I believe these school issues are a symptom of a larger problem. When I look at the USA as a whole I see it unraveling before my eyes. I believe America's problems are ontological. These are some things I have written. http://whyifailedinamerica.wordpress.com/

I will be honest. I never was quite at ease in sending a kid with a communication disorder to school. It is one of those things that was always in the back of my mind. I always made sure that everyone knew he has echolalia, and will parrot things said, to him and that he cannot control it. (In other words, don't think you can say anything you want to him, threaten him not to tell and be sure it would remain a secret.) Not that he really ever told me much, but I did get to hear occasional verbatim accounts of teacher's personal telephone calls and the like.

But yeah, it always worried me that an autistic child would make a much better victim b/c they are less likely to share what goes on during their day. I am just finding things out from pre-k now, and my son is 8. Nothing actually abusive has come up--but then again I think some of the stuff I knew about amounted to legal abuse, last term. (Not b/c it was abuse per se, but how it misaligned with his issues) Maybe I will get a full accounting of that in a year or two. I am glad he is out. I can't imagine what would happen if he ever went above elementary school and had teachers for every subject.

I learned all about this from a baby sitter, first grade teacher and fifth grade teacher.
I guess those memories animate me when I hear about adults in formal authority treating children badly. These are lessons you never forget or forgive.

You want to take the charitable view and ascribe this conduct to stupidity rather than malice, on the other hand the adult perpetrator of these abuses always relies on the child's sense of powerlessness and isolation. It is one of our deepest duties as parents to protect our children until they can fend for themselves and breaking through that sense of isolation, powerlessness and vulnerability is a key part of that.

Power corrupts, so be vigilant.

Why does this remind me of SouthPark's "F*ngerbang" song?
If I had a kid, I'm pretty certain I'd not be permitted to attend parent-teacher meetings due to my large tattoo of a German anti-aircraft gun...

Darn, I was hoping it was just my state that was that crazy. The most recent thing that really got me upset was that they told us to just let my son have a sketchbook at school where he can draw whatever violent, creepy thing he wants (that's how they see him because he draws diagrams of katana-like swords and labels them with things like "two kinds of steel in the blade"). The catch is, he can never show the drawing to anyone or talk about it. Now, tell me they aren't setting him up to get expelled. 1/2 year left at the school, and we are not going to look back.

Nope, it's everywhere. It's not new, either.

I had a terror of a teacher in fifth and sixth grade. Making fun, ragging, public humiliation, can't count the number of times I was called stupid, lazy, ret*d, what have you. After those two years, I never did manage to get rid of her voice in my head telling me that I was stupid and would never make it.

After graduating from high school (tied for second in my class), I was feeling nostalgic. More than a little depressed and trying to figure out how to put the pieces of myself together. I went back to my old grade school and kind of ghosted around the place. Saw some old sights, talked to some old acquaintances.

Guess who I ran into?? Yup. She was so glad to see me (literally, really). Greeted me like an old friend. Asked me how I'd been doing. Wasn't this my graduation year?? Where was I going to college??

"Yeah. I'm surprised-- I actually ended up salutatorian. Dunno about college-- guess I'm going to WVU. I didn't apply for financial aid or anything, but I found out they're offering me a four-year full ride..."

"I knew you'd do great. I was so hard on you because I knew you were capable of great things..."

DUMBFOUNDED. Totally, utterly, completely speechless. THE b***h HAD GOOD INTENTIONS.

Fast-forward sixteen years. I've been treated that way many more times. I've seen my kids treated that way. I have ACTUALLY BEEN CONVINCED THAT, FOR THEIR OWN GOOD, I SHOULD TREAT MY KIDS THAT WAY.

Holy freakin' crap. What do you do with that?? Where do you even START????

PS-- A few years later, said teacher died. Hideously. Of cancer of the tongue. I said, "Well, that was appropriate."

Can't even begin to express my confusion. So guns are legal in the US, but kids making finger guns while playing is not and they are punished for pretend playing?
Pardon my baffledness.

Don't want to come across as some snarky European, but I really, really, don't understand. It reminds me of the Aspie Kid who got expelled for drawing a bomb.
Maybe you could tell the teacher that in Europe, kids are allowed to draw what they want and play how they want to play, that guns are illegal and to my recollection, we haven't had any school shootings around here. But that might be considered rude, maybe? I would hate to be AS in the US. Too many inconsistencies.

Sidney,

In the U.S, there is not a smooth increase in legal rights, with age, for the most part. This is true for a lot of things. Schools are looked at as authority figures that replace the parent in many respects, and can make rules that would be unconstitutional when applied to adults. IMO, high school students are not necessarily treated with that many more rights than little kids. College kids also have issues with their colleges acting in similar ways. So it is not looked at as weird that even in states that are very pro gun rights, kids cannot pretend to play guns in school. It is sad, but that is how it is. Ironically the fact that guns are readily available to some kids make these rules seem more sensible, b/c there is a thought that kids focused on pretend guns will be able to acquire real guns. If that was not a possibility, maybe they would chill out more, I do not know.

(Also just to digress a bit, not all states/cities are as pro-gun as others. Some cities like Washington D.C attempt to have more stringent gun control legislation, but have recently have had constitutional issues at the Supreme Court level. Like most rights issues, it is an ongoing battle between different people with different interpretations of citizens' rights. So it is an oversimplification to think everyone in the U.S has the same opinion even on guns for adults.

Thanks, ASD MommyASDKid. I really didn't think that everyone in the US is a gunloving freak, trust me .
I just looked up the Washington gun legislation. I sounds logical. But not as logical as ours, which basically is: you only get permission to have a gun if you need one (as a police officer or a hunter- I think that's about it).
Not trying to make this into a thread about guns. Not trying to advocate. But I really, genuinely feel sorry for all the US parents that have to live with the genuine fear that their kids might get shot when they send them to school.

Please believe me when I say that most sensible Europeans do NOT believe every American to be a gunloving NRA member. We DO know this is a generalization. When we hear of yet another school shooting, we cry. But we can not, for the love of logic and ratio, understand why and how these kids get guns. And when we hear things like 'no finger guns in schools allowed in pro gun states', or 'gun permits for the blind in Iowa', we basically think your government is failing you. You aren't safe, your kids aren't safe, and the 'no finger guns' thing is simply ret*d. You deserve to live in a safe environment. You deserve to drop off your kids in trust and safety. Your kids deserve the freedom to play and draw what they want, without getting reprimanded for something they probably don't even understand.

You know, I grew up around guns. Hunters, target shooters, crazy vets. We lived in the boonies. Guns were everywhere. Fact of life. Kids played guns. Little boys drew detailed pictures of guns. It was just life.

Nowadays, I send my son to his room, shame him and belittle him and scream "NO. NEVER, EVER, NOT EVER!! !" when he draws a picture of a gun fight (we don't have any, other than Nerf water guns, and don't allow cartoons or movies featuring gunplay to be viewed by the kids-- to protect them from the antigun crazies, not because Guns Are Bad). I do it for his safety, because I know what will happen to him if he points his finger at another little boy and yells, "BANG!"

Never-- not ever-- did we have a school shooting. I don't even recall an incident of a kid brandishing a weapon, or anything that looked like a weapon. Closest thing we ever had to any of that was hunting accidents. Maybe a couple of suicides. The only fights I remember were over territorial rights to members of the opposite sex.

School shootings have happened since we started making guns something shocking and terrible, something dark and taboo...

...and making anger, sadness, and pain something that is to be repressed, not shown, lest your be punished because people fear you.

When I was a girl, a first-grader who burst into tears was "a crybaby." Now that my son is a first-grader, a first-grader who bursts into tears is "a sick and disturbed child." GOOD f*****g GRIEF!! !!

CubeDemon is right-- our society is sick, getting sicker, degenerating, dying. I WANT OUT.

It's a very cultural thing, I think. I'm an American and where I grew up there weren't many guns around. I don't remember ever seeing on aside from the ones carried by policemen. No one in my family has one and I've never felt the need to get one. (And my Dad always votes Republican, in case anyone is wondering.)

I rarely find anything to laugh about on WP. In fact, this may be the first time. Thanks for that.

Wait, no, I take that back. I ducked my head into the Politics forum a few days ago. There were a few "debates" that were entertaining.

I feel sorry for the people who don't look at the facts. If they did they'd never take their child anywhere in a vehicle, and never let the child ride a bicycle on anything other than enclosed grass.

To me the data is the proof needed that guns are not dangerous, people are.

Irrational fear is the root of this issue. Good luck getting people past that. People seem to love their phobias, clinging to them almost like there's a comfort in having things to fear.


In the interest of disclosure: I don't own firearms. I can just think and read, and am not prone to irrational fears (spiders, the dark, [people with] guns, etc.)

this you have a higher chance of getting struck by lightning than getting shot in a school