Made the mistake of reading the parent's forum

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I see two statements being made here repeatedly:
1) It is wrong to change ASD kids
2) ASD kids must be taught how to function independently in life

These two ideas are contradictory, people.
You can't have it both ways.

It's difficult: but you could enable independence without changing the "essence" of a person with ASD.

This confuses me, could you explain a little more?

I believe that the goal with parenting any child is to help that child to achieve their greatest potential. What that particular potential is, is different for each child. It is about support and guidance. It is not necessary to change one thing about the true nature of the child while offering them this support and guidance. It is about helping support their true nature to express itself in its best form.

Not all parents have this goal, sure- some think it is better for the child to be more like something the child is not. This, I think, is more of a misperception and insecurity than abuse. It stems out of a fear that the child will not be adequately prepared if they don't become something different. This parenting flaw is not particular to parents of ASD children, parents of NT's do it too. Sometimes worse, as they sometimes try to get a child to fulfill a dream that was their own that they feel was denied of them.

Sometimes it is hard to know exactly how best to support your child to help them grow into the best expression of themselves. It can take some time to figure it out, and mistakes will be made. It's o.k. It is part of the parenting process. One of the great lessons you learn when you have a child is that you are not only helping them grow up, they are helping you grow up too.

Teaching your ASD kids skills to help them function in life is changing them but yet people are saying here they will not change them but then go on saying things about what medication will work or what can they do to help their child etc. But it seems like so many ASD people act like it's so wrong to teach them how to function to live a normal life and be independent. They see it as the parent not accepting them and they see it as abuse.

but I think it's easier to teach a kid all these things because their brains are still developing and they don't have a lot of life experience yet and as a child, you don't know any different when you are taught how to act and behave. I didn't know any different either growing up. The difference is autistic kids need more tools to learn than NT kids. And I loved therapy and going to doctor appointments. I know ABA is controversial but I think it depends on how it's done. Some kids love it and some on the spectrum even wish they had it and when I first heard about it in a book written by a kid with ASD, it looked like therapy to me and he got to have it in his own home and I always loved earning things as a child like speech bucks or chips and trade them in for prizes. This kid got to have it on a daily bases throughout the day while I had to get it once a week or few times a week for less than an hour and that sucked. I wanted more of it. But some AS people make this out to be a black and white thing and I say it just depends on the child and the therapy. I have also heard horrible stories about it and I have also heard good stories about it.

Last edited by League_Girl on 16 Feb 2015, 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think that there is a big difference between trying to get a kid wired with ASD to become NT (which is never going to happen, even if a person thought it was OK) and helping a child become an adult who can survive and function in an NT world.

When most NT parents of NT kids raise them, they do not let them do whatever they want because it is natural to their wiring or anything like that. They (hopefully) attempt to raise them to function civilly and functionally in the world in which we live.

That is all most of us are attempting to do with our kids with ASD. We want them to be functional, as self-sufficient as possible given out children's unique constraints, and be decent human beings.

What is controversial about this, I do not know. i think some people are maybe making assumptions about the parents here, without delving deeper, or based on their own experiences as opposed to the evidence here.

Most parents don't join an aspie forum b/c they are unsympathetic or anti-aspie. There are plenty of other places to go for those kinds of people.

I think it may be that people are defining change in different ways. I don't see teaching your child skills to help them function in life as changing them. They come to the world with a set of personality traits, and a unique self. Claiming that teaching them skills is changing who they truly are is ( to me) the same as saying that their lack of skills in some area defines them. It does not. They are who they are whether they acquire a skill or not. All kids need to be taught skills to function properly. It is like saying that babies should never be toilet trained because their "true self" is not toilet trained, and it is abusive to change them. I think it is neglectful not to toilet train your child. Helping a child acquire a skill in order to be more independent is adding to their true self and making it stronger, neglecting to do this is holding them back. I think some people are confusing the expression of parents to teach their ASD kids skills to function better with doing extreme ABA therapy, or using Autism Speaks philosophy.,It kicks up their fears that the child is not being accepted, and that the child will grow up thinking they have to be something different than they are to be "good enough", so they are speaking up on behalf of the child. But, that's not what is happening. It is just parenting a child to grow up as their own strongest self, the way all children (ASD or NT) are.

I agree with what you are saying and it's also abusive to not get your kid any help. I didn't say this, Dr. Phil did on his show to these parents who failed to get their teen help who had lot of problems, she wasn't autistic.


Some people do take it too far for who they are like my ex boyfriend did. He took it so far he alienated people around him because he felt it would be changing who he is. One of them was being dependent on others and he didn't want to work and wanted everything handed to him and he wouldn't respect you if something about him bothered you like if he kept on joking and you were in no mood for it. he saw it as who he is and wouldn't stop despite how much his constant swearing and teasing would upset me. He also liked to use the word ret*d so if you were to tell him how much it offends you and how offensive it is for people with disabilities and parents who have special need kids, he wouldn't give a damn. He would see it as your problem and he wouldn't change who he is to make you happy. C'mon everyone needs to adjust some of their behaviors for others to make situations more pleasant and it makes their lives a hell lot easier too. Then he wondered why his family didn't want him around and he wondered why he always felt judged. I bet if he came across a blind person, he would probably get pissed about them not being able to see what he can do after they have told him over and over they can't see anything so stop expecting them to watch him and look at him but he refuses to change who he is. That was how bad he is and how far he took being true to himself. Or he would probably think he couldn't be his true self around a blind person. He did basically this about me being literal and refused to cut back on his teasing and would get pissed about me taking him seriously. But my husband once said maybe it was his not understanding that I wouldn't understand his humor and then he wouldn't understand why I didn't get his jokes because that was also part of his possible ASD trait. Just an example of how two conditions can clash with their symptoms. But everyone around me says he was an a**hole and my mom thinks he wasn't capable of caring for others and that's what made him a jerk. She also thinks he twisted "Being true to yourself" to justify his behavior than taking it literal.

I agree with the "as*hole" assessment. Your mom sounds very nice and forgiving.

mmm. Well, people on the spectrum don't live "normal" lives. perspective, perception, processing- most of the time that is different and how we learn to cope and engage with the world around us is different. but... learning to cope and engage is pretty important. It's what can help use to lead productive and happy lives and be independent. But it doesn't change who we are or how we are. It doesn't change what is awesome about us as individuals. It doesn't make me less autistic because I can better judge what is going to be a challenging situation or environment and figure out how to compensate better for it or because I have developed some coping techniques or learned when to step away or how to self soothe. These are all tools. They don't change me.

And... being independent isn't changing a person on the spectrum.
Looking back, to now- I am clearly autistic. It was missed for a variety of reasons, but I wasn't officially diagnosed until my early twenties so I ended up having to figure out a lot of the coping skills and put together that whole "toolbox" myself. But it hasn't changed who I am. It's let me be way more independent, certainly. And that's great. If i had had assistance with that and support- that would have been better.

There is a vast difference between telling people to change who they are and how they present themselves to the world versus helping them to deal with how the world can be challenging to THEM.

One is about making the rest of the world more comfortable, the other is about making the individual comfortable with who they are and easing how they can navigate the world.

I'm sorry if this isn't the appropriate place to respond- I come at this from being on the spectrum, working with autistic children and having some very close friends who are NT but raising children on the spectrum or autie raising autie children. I just thought it might be helpful to share my perspective on the change versus tools thing.

Hi; I am on the ASD spectrum and have also worked with families of children on the spectrum. I agree with you that it used to be a common thought that autistic children or people need " fixing". We now understand that it is a biomedical condition that is lifelong. Each family must be given the freedom and choice to live and pursue the life that makes sense for their families. I remember feeling guilty about working with parents who were expecting recovery when I knew in my heart and in my own experience that it was not a realistic goal. I admire and support parents who pursue the best possible treatment and explore all their options. I personally have a special interest in autoimmune disease process and prevention. My focus on health and wellness has served me well in my pursuit of higher functioning and participation in my family and community. I would never push these beliefs or research findings on anyone. However, I have noticed a few of the posts rejecting other people's opinions and points of view. We as a community of diverse and talented individuals must encourage each other and be open-minded enough to accept dissent or challenge. That is the democratic process and it provides for lively discussion and growth. Are you suggesting that people should stop trying to improve their lives? I'm confused why anyone's opinion would upset you. Autistic people and families face enough adversity in the media and in life. Why can't this be a safe haven? We don't have to agree in order to get along.

I agree with everything you said.

This is a perfectly appropriate place for you to respond. The topics are about parenting, but you certainly do not have to be a parent to contribute to the conversation.

I think I live a normal life. I think John Robison lives a normal life, Temple Grandin, Laine Holliday Willey. They all live on their own, have jobs, can take care of themselves. Two of them had relationships and are married and have kids. I think that is pretty normal and even if someone doesn't get married or have kids doesn't make their lives any less normal, same as for being single.

I really get both sides of the argument here since I believe in having a lot of sympathy for parents who are doing their best for kids with autism. And to be sure, even when parents of autistic kids genuinely think their kids are great just the way they are and are in a point where they don't believe in trying to make them conform to artificially imposed normality, the challenges they face, even besides the obvious physical ones, are immense. For starters, even when they can love and accept their kids the way they are, chances are at least some of the other parents on their community won't and so if they are not trying to aggressively make their kids normal and trying to force them to act NT all the time,. they will inevitably have to deal with other parents, and sometimes even childless men and women, telling them are unfit to be mothers and fathers and should never have had children. And again, even beyond the extra physical exhaustion that parenting autistic kids entails, this is just a start of the emotional and mental difficulties they face. I think that tip toeing around this hard truth does nothing to assist those with autism and nothing to assist those who love someone with autism.

But the other side is that this absolutely has to be a place where those struggling with autism can not just feel safe but be in a community where they never have to feel like they are deficient or in need of being converted to normalcy, as our culture defines it, by force or any other way. Parents who give the impression that they think their kids are deficient or more trouble than they are worth because they don't fit modern culture's definition of normal should, to be sure, be able to voice their opinions freely - am a die hard believer of the idea that free speech includes the right to say things that others find monstrously disgusting and offensive - but I just don't think this is the right forum for that and furthermore I think that parents who feel that way and feel victimized by their children simply because said children are not NTs have plenty of other outlets to voice their frustrations and don't really need this forum.

So it is in the end about the continuing battle to get NTs and those dealing with autism to meet each other half way. This is just my two cents anyway.

I'm into the "meeting halfway" philosophy. I also believe autistic people have to have the means to survive in the wider world.

If you are responding to my use of "normal" you are taking it out of the context I used it in and how I used "normal".


Uncertain, but that's seems to be the last place normal was used in an obvious fashion in this discussion. Apologies if you were responding to someone else.