My 7yr old won't tie up her jacket
Autism makes everything that NT kids do that much harder. Whether you realize it or not, your child is struggling to get through the day (no child qualifies for a diagnosis on the autism spectrum unless they are struggling in some way.)
Many kids on the spectrum think of home as their "safe" place, where they don't have to expend the enormous amount of energy it takes to look "normal" to the rest of the world. In a lot of cases, this looks like extreme misbehavior at home - tantruming, violence, etc. If asking for help with her coat is your daughter's way of expressing this, it strikes me as a pretty small thing.
It's important to understand that your daughter has been diagnosed with a condition classified as a "developmental delay." This means it is natural that she won't be able to do things at the same rate as her peers, or that trying to do things, or pushing her to do things at the rate of her peers is the equivalent of assuming you can make a kindergartener behave like a third-grader. It can be done, I suppose, but at tremendous expense to the child.
Likewise, it takes some effort as an adult to recognize that what works for your child may look different than what works for other children, and you have to take a step back and be comfortable with things that are different. My son is very neurotypical in appearance - but we set him back years by holding him to the standard of his same-aged peers. He didn't need much - just a few accommodations and therapies - but if he didn't get those, life was significantly worse for him as well as everyone around him.
It's also important to remember that "delay" does not mean "stop." Delayed children do indeed develop, and our job as parents and caregivers is to help become their best selves; part of that is respecting where they are in the moment, and part of that is having a longer view and picking your battles. It also means that measuring your child against the behavior of other children her age is not appropriate in both directions - many kids on the spectrum are ahead of their peers in some ways, as well as delayed in others.
BirdInFlight
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momsparky -- just wanted to say, that is such a beautiful post.
This thread is making me think back to myself as a child because I too had "coat issues" (as well as hat issues....and trouser issues......!) And I too was different in a school setting to a home setting.
And your perfect understanding of this situation is pure poetry. My mum loved me and did her best, and I loved her, but I really wish she had known what you know and what you just posted. ![]()
LOL, I wish I'd known it myself when it was pertinent! I guess the lessons you learn the hard way are the ones that stick.
I do really appreciate your response, though.
You can't 'test' for sensory issues though. It is something that is seen through long term observation.
Does she have any issues with zippers in any other forms? Like on boots/shoes (some have zippers not laces), pants (jeans) or other? Could be a clue.
If not then perhaps its the jacket itself. I would assume you've tried to have her wear different jackets? Different material or design?
It could also be a fashion/body image thing. You know how kids are ![]()
You could have her wear a light sweater over her shirt and under her jacket if she wont close her jacket. It would keep her central chest & thorax area warm. Just a suggestion. Personally I can't stand sweaters because of the heat and material (itchy) but cashmere sweaters work perfectly for me.
I am 99% certain this is a sensory issue; she finds the done up jacket uncomfortable. I suspect having it done up to the neck may be the issue, as I and several other autistics I've come across are sensitive around the neck area (don't like wearing buttoned shirts, etc.). Is it at all possible to compromise by zipping it up halfway, instead of all the way up to the neck?
I actually have the opposite issue; I live in sunny Australia and I refuse to go outdoors unless my arms and legs are fully covered, regardless of how hot it may be, it has been around 10 years since I owned a pair of shorts. In my case it's because I don't like the burning sensation on my skin. In summer I get asked 'aren't you hot?' every few minutes. In any case, I can definitely relate to the girl in question. My personal feeling is that unless there is a danger to her health or some serious reason why her jacket needs to be done up besides petty bureaucracy, it is not worth forcing the issue, as this will just inflame the situation and may lead to other behavioural problems as she tries to take her anger out on something.
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Sweetleaf
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To Waterfalls, she is well good at following instructions at school and is the cleverest and most well behaved child in her Class.
Even at home, she follows my instructions well, when I ask her to do her homework, get ready for school etc she does it straight away without any fuss.
She ties her own shoelaces so its certainly not sensory issue.
Regarding communication, she is a very good talker, especially when with friends, she is easy to understand and talks for a long time.
Her being able to tie her shoelaces doesn't really imply the not zipping up her zip all the way isn't to do with a sensory issue....those two things don't correlate. And well if she's not autistic and doesn't have sensory issues according to her getting tested why are you asking advice on an autism forum exactly? Or do you think there is a chance she is on the spectrum...also have you asked her why she wont zip it up?
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To Waterfalls, she is well good at following instructions at school and is the cleverest and most well behaved child in her Class.
Even at home, she follows my instructions well, when I ask her to do her homework, get ready for school etc she does it straight away without any fuss.
She ties her own shoelaces so its certainly not sensory issue.
Regarding communication, she is a very good talker, especially when with friends, she is easy to understand and talks for a long time.
Her being able to tie her shoelaces doesn't really imply the not zipping up her zip all the way isn't to do with a sensory issue....those two things don't correlate. And well if she's not autistic and doesn't have sensory issues according to her getting tested why are you asking advice on an autism forum exactly? Or do you think there is a chance she is on the spectrum...also have you asked her why she wont zip it up?
Wherever the OP resides, they differentiate Aspergers and autism as two different things, so I don't think she is aware that when we say autism that we mean there is a whole spectrum including the type of "high-functioning" autism that is defined as AS.
So, she is here b/c she thinks of WP as an Asperger's forum and does not relate it to autism. I also think she may be insulted by the use of the word autism, but I could be wrong about that vibe I get. I also think she is conflating sensory issues with motor skill issues---and the daughter is evidently not behind on motor skills, and she thinks that is what we mean by sensory issues. (As opposed to what we do mean --- which is the actual sensory discomfort of certain sensory input.)
I get the impression b/c her daughter is mild and generally compliant, that she has not had the need to familiarize her with the issues that can crop up, and apparently whoever diagnosed her did not do a good job of letting her know what possible issues there might be.
She is feeling uncomfortable. That's it.
Try different jacket. It's good idea to try bigger size (won't make her feel trapped) and with warmed/wool ending around neck (the satin-like texture of most winter jackets feel cold against chin). I don't have any suggestion about zip itself but zip endings are often uncomfortable around neck/chin area so perhaps let her wear scarf/neck sweater instead of forcing her to close the jacket all way up.
BirdInFlight
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ASDMommyASDKid - yes, I too get a vibe that the OP is having discomfort with the idea of Asperger's also being autism, and I believe too that the OP may be mixing up the term or concept of motor skills with the term or concept of sensory discomfort.
I also feel, like others here, that there's a strong possibility this is indeed a physical discomfort issue of feeling "trapped" in the coat when it's done up all the way to the neck.
I too have "neck issues" with winter clothing. I don't mind a scarf bundled around my neck fairly loosely to keep out the cold, but I can't stand my coat being fastened all the way up to the neck, and so always leave it short of the neck and fill the gap with a scarf.
I wish the OP would come back and post, as we've all had some good input to give here I think.
My kids both feel the cold a lot less than me (1 with AS and 1 NT). I've always let them decide for themselves whether to wear their coats/fasten them up. Even if it's a cold day I will take their coats out with me if they don't want them on and when they're cold/they want to they can put them on. Unless you live in the arctic or something there's no danger to not fastening a coat and I think it's good to give children some independence in their decisions and save insisting for things that matter. If she can do her own coat up I would just let her do it when she feels the need. Even if she couldn't I wouldn't do it up for her against her will. If she complains she's cold then just remind her she can do her coat up if she wants but don't force her. If she doesn't feel that she has no control over the situation she will fasten her coat of her own accord if she's cold. I really don't think it needs to be a big issue at all.
Dont assume things. Thats all I can say.
Was recently thinking about something like this from own childhood- that now makes me wish I could go back in a time machine and tell my mom to "stop being an idiot".
For years mom would try to remedy a nonexistent problem - my aledged urge to chew clothing. She even gave me rubber bands to chew on to cure this "urge" that I never ever actually ever had in the first place. I was not a "rubber band chewer". Rubber bands didnt do squat for me. I didnt have any urge to chew any stuff. By since I was a kid- if mom and dad said something- it must be true. So even I was convinced that I had this compulsion that i didnt even have.
The truth was that I had no compulsion to chew things at all. What I had was: a hatred of clothing that choked my neck. Therefore I hated turtlenecks, and when they dressed me in a turtleneck I would wear it with the neck over my chin so it wouldnt choke me. And since the turtleneck would never stay in place stretched over my chin I was forced to hold it in place with my teeth. I would just go around with the front of the turtleneck in my mouth (causing the shirt to get wet with saliva making the garmet even more uncomfortable to wear). My dumb parents couldnt figure that out, and kept alternately brow beating me, pleading, or gently trying coaxe me, to stop "chewing my clothing". All they had to do was stop buying me turtlenecks.
So parents get things wrong. And even the child may not be able think through what the issue is for their own pov if parents project there own assumptions on the child when talking to the child about it. Its complicated.
Also if she is like me, she could be doing school behavior. In school she has to button up her coat or zip because it is enforced there. At home it isn't enforced so she could be taking it all literal because she thinks she only has to do that in school. She learns a rule and thinks it only applies there only.
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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Was recently thinking about something like this from own childhood- that now makes me wish I could go back in a time machine and tell my mom to "stop being an idiot".
For years mom would try to remedy a nonexistent problem - my aledged urge to chew clothing. She even gave me rubber bands to chew on to cure this "urge" that I never ever actually ever had in the first place. I was not a "rubber band chewer". Rubber bands didnt do squat for me. I didnt have any urge to chew any stuff. By since I was a kid- if mom and dad said something- it must be true. So even I was convinced that I had this compulsion that i didnt even have.
The truth was that I had no compulsion to chew things at all. What I had was: a hatred of clothing that choked my neck. Therefore I hated turtlenecks, and when they dressed me in a turtleneck I would wear it with the neck over my chin so it wouldnt choke me. And since the turtleneck would never stay in place stretched over my chin I was forced to hold it in place with my teeth. I would just go around with the front of the turtleneck in my mouth (causing the shirt to get wet with saliva making the garmet even more uncomfortable to wear). My dumb parents couldnt figure that out, and kept alternately brow beating me, pleading, or gently trying coaxe me, to stop "chewing my clothing". All they had to do was stop buying me turtlenecks.
So parents get things wrong. And even the child may not be able think through what the issue is for their own pov if parents project there own assumptions on the child when talking to the child about it. Its complicated.
They didn't notice that you only did it in the fall/winter or whenever turtleneck season is? I hated turtlenecks also so I totally understand why you did not like it. I felt like I was being choked.
Was recently thinking about something like this from own childhood- that now makes me wish I could go back in a time machine and tell my mom to "stop being an idiot".
For years mom would try to remedy a nonexistent problem - my aledged urge to chew clothing. She even gave me rubber bands to chew on to cure this "urge" that I never ever actually ever had in the first place. I was not a "rubber band chewer". Rubber bands didnt do squat for me. I didnt have any urge to chew any stuff. By since I was a kid- if mom and dad said something- it must be true. So even I was convinced that I had this compulsion that i didnt even have.
The truth was that I had no compulsion to chew things at all. What I had was: a hatred of clothing that choked my neck. Therefore I hated turtlenecks, and when they dressed me in a turtleneck I would wear it with the neck over my chin so it wouldnt choke me. And since the turtleneck would never stay in place stretched over my chin I was forced to hold it in place with my teeth. I would just go around with the front of the turtleneck in my mouth (causing the shirt to get wet with saliva making the garmet even more uncomfortable to wear). My dumb parents couldnt figure that out, and kept alternately brow beating me, pleading, or gently trying coaxe me, to stop "chewing my clothing". All they had to do was stop buying me turtlenecks.
So parents get things wrong. And even the child may not be able think through what the issue is for their own pov if parents project there own assumptions on the child when talking to the child about it. Its complicated.
They didn't notice that you only did it in the fall/winter or whenever turtleneck season is? I hated turtlenecks also so I totally understand why you did not like it. I felt like I was being choked.
Yes. Apparently they didnt put 2 and 2 together and figure out that I only did it with certain garments. And when you're a kid (your brain isnt fully formed yet) you dont make the connection yourself.Maddening to think about it now. Funny how childhood stuff like that drifts back into your mind when you're grownup.
That said, maybe she objects to being told to "tie up" a zipper or button, because that's impossible.
And if you think me saying that is ridiculous, think again. That's how autistic minds work.
Also, yes Asperger's is autism.
That was my first thought. When my son was that age, he would have had no idea what you were asking him to do. At all. So, he would have likely sat there and stared blankly at you while his poor little mind tried to figure out how to comply with a request that cannot possibly be complied with. I bet at school they are telling her to zip her jacket.
I also want to mention that at that age, people always accused my son of being deliberately obtuse or trying to be a smart*ss. His verbal skills seemed to be through the roof, but not for pragmatics, only most people do not even know what pragmatics are, let only recognize when they are interfering with communication. My son is not a smart*ss. He is generally a compliant kid who wants to do what he is supposed to do. His interpretation was that literal. Once his teachers understood "If X is doing something that seems totally out of character, stop and think very literally about what you just told him to do. Then ask him to do it in different words," things got a lot better for him.
...To be honest, even today, my first thought was "why would you give a 7 year old a jacket that needs to be tied?"
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