5 yr old with AS--NT kids equivalent responses?

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Hi,

our 5 yr old was recently dx with AS. The worksheet in ADOS seemed to suggest that the determining factors were his insights into relationships like friendship and marriage. If anyone here has a 4/5/6 year old NT, I'd love to hear their insights on marriage and friends.

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

I don't have an NT child, but I read one of your other posts, and I just feel that is sort of ridiculous to expect a 4/5/6 year old to have an insight into marriage. That was never a question on any of my son's evaluations. As far as friends, I think my son understands what a friend is, but he is just happier not really having any. Of course we are trying to gently encourage him to socialize, but this is just part of who he is.

What other types of things does your son struggle with? There must have been other things to get a diagnosis of AS.

Hopefully, you will find the answers to some of your questions and the support you need from WP.

I remember being the 5 year old probably not-NT. At that time I had no concept of marriage and shortly before that I needed help with understanding concepts like gender and correctly recognizing gender in people. As for friends, I had a lot of trouble with keeping them and understanding the reasons for wanting them, and other kids remarked that I had trouble understanding what it's like to be another person.

At five, I had a concept of mom and dad, but with if the parent is single or the parents are divorced. I don't think an NT would have much thoughts on marriage at age five.

Most 5 year olds know that a man and woman get married and have children. I don't think they comprehend anything beyond those points.

I'm not NT, but I (male) clearly remember being 5. At that age, I knew that a man and a woman meet, fall in love, celebrate with a wedding, then live together, and have babies. As for the wedding itself, I viewed it as basically a big party with food, alcohol, and dancing; I didn't put much weight on the "holy matrimony" part of it.

That's all I knew back then. I didn't internalize marriage/cohabitation as something unpleasant and/or prison-like until a few years later, when I started noticing my parents fight with each other constantly. Sometime around that age, I swore off getting married too.

NT here. My memory of friendships and relationships began to emerge by 4. As I moved from home and my parents and siblings into kindergarten I began to form temporary relationships and remember understanding the concept of friendship and I remember looking forward to catching up with friends.

By 6 I was in primary school and friendships were clear but they did change every so often. I tended to hang around with the same friends and go their house etc....

Sounds like you are a bit skeptical of the so-called "expert" advice you are receiving. That speaks well of your discernment.The Milgram experiment showed that about 80% of people can be bluffed by experts.

The videos of Tony Attwood on Youtube and the free pdf booklet, "Aspergers - An Intentional Life" can be helpful in getting an understanding of this neurological variant.

http://christianpioneer.com/blogarchiev ... e_2017.pdf

Not NT but I knew at that age that wedding is something that adults did and it was between a man and a woman.

As for friends, friends were kids you played with.

It's interesting that you brought this up. As a child---that's ages 0 thru 10---I did have friends, close friends too. But looking back, I do wonder if I wanted actual friends or just kids to play with; basically, what I'd now call "activity partners". That is, did I truly appreciate them as friends, or just liked having them around because they were willing to play with me? Sadly, I lost those friends when my family moved across the country when I was 10.

Between ages 10 to 16-ish that I had no friends at all. In later years of high school, I did make new friends, and they were my regular social group for about 12 years since. Unlike as a child, possibly, I did appreciate them for who they were, not just for them being willing to hang out with me. Those long-time friends got into very serious relationships in recent years, and pulled away from me to an extent.

In 2011, I joined some activity-specific social groups. This caused things to come full circle to my childhood, since I hung out with those people specifically for the activities they participated it, like pickup sports games in a park or board games. Some of those people became true friends since then, particularly after my friends got into relationships, when I started to lean on those groups for my socialization needs.

To the OP, there are parents on WP with NT kids.

I think based on my experience if your child is able to make play-friends (rather than relationships) they should still be happy as children their age don't normally establish permanent friendships till upper primary.

As to their understanding of marriage, again this probably isn't really establish until primary school.

When I was 5 I used to think that every mum and dad was married to each other. But I think a lot of 5-year-olds probably believed that, especially in those days when more parents did marry before having children and stuck together at least until the child becomes a teenager. These days 5-year-olds might have a different view on marriage, as a lot of parents split up while the children are still babies and their siblings have different dads.

Please keep in mind that the ADOS is not an exact science. It is observational, and often performed at an age where the child cannot explain him/herself. They seem to score more toward positive. There is a practical reason for this. Therapies and accommodations cannot be justified unless there is a matching diagnosis. Some therapies are appropriate for many different conditions but will only be paid for by insurance or the state if the condition is on an approved list for that therapy.

The ADOS is also not just one question or observation and any particular single observation is not going to lead to a diagnosis. Also, there are different modules for kids versus adults. The question on marriage makes me think maybe the kid was given the wrong test module.

It is observational because the child does not (and cannot) describe their own internal state. Some autism tests for adults are self tests (no outside observation), some are all observation, and some are both. But a behavior test given to a child is always observational. Even if the administrator asks the child questions, the limited knowledge and vocabulary of children limits the accuracy.

The problem I have with Atwood's publications and the "Aspergers is not a disability" is that his neuroscience is kind of outdated (pre-DSMV) and doesn't really factor the nuances of the thousands of comorbidities that accompany autism.