Thoughts for mild signs please??! !!

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OK hi so i have an appointment with a paed. for my 4 year old son regarding tiny signs of some AS maybe? The thing is when he is home he is not showing much of the signs and when we are out, he only sometimes shows the signs - im going just incase somethings up, so i know and can help him in the future. Ive made up a wee list have look I would love any feedback please. like your children showing signs only sometimes? thanks so much for any comments and thoughts!!

scared of eyecontact
funny facial expressions
not understaing instructions etc
has always had passions
awkward stance/posture
loud tone of voice accent
weird laughing
scared of loud noises
used to run up and down lines
used to rub head on carpet
stiff cuddles
anxiety around new people
if inturrupted when talking gets very mad'
high pain intolerance
very tidy
feels cold cries
touches his bum
has had huge probs if change - like went to wrong pool so didnt go in (we were there for an hour) cry over an hour. but sometimes hes easy as with change? He is very
naive and gullible and extremly well behaved!!

Hi Manna

By way of comparison with my now 12 y/o son

Scared of eyecontact - Finds making eye contact very difficult
funny facial expressions - Facial tics, especially when stressed
not understaing instructions etc - Too many instructions given at once can be difficult to follow
has always had passions - Obsessions with Star Wars and history
awkward stance/posture - Uncomfortable in his own skin, awkward gait
loud tone of voice accent - Has american accent (We're Irish!)
weird laughing - Sometimes giddy
scared of loud noises - Frequently jumps at loud sudden noises
used to run up and down lines - N/A
used to rub head on carpet - N/A
stiff cuddles - Not so much now, but dislikes shoulders being touched
anxiety around new people - Always
if inturrupted when talking gets very mad' - Sometimes
high pain intolerance - N/A
very tidy - I wish!
feels cold cries - High tolerance for hot and cold
touches his bum - N/A
has had huge probs if change - Always
He is very naive and gullible and extremly well behaved!! - Immature and rule driven

I find stress and anxiety make these behaviours more frequent but as he gets older he can explain/manage them better.

Goggle Tony Attwood for further information on AS he has written a great guide book
Good Luck!

AS can be difficult to spot in 4 year olds, because so many of the "signs" are actually quite normal at that age. Although, I think mommy instinct is pretty strong ... you just "know" when your child is different than the other little ones, don't you?

My son wasn't obvious at all, making strong eye contact and loving to hug. Turns out AS kids are as individual and unique as people in general.

Which takes us back to mommy instinct. Read around and see if you can relate at any level. And feel free to join in the discussion.

Sounds like he has enough signs for you to be concerned. Although, we can't diagnose here. Like DW said, every case is different. You didn't mention his language. How has his language developed. Also, how about friends? Does he interact with his peers?

My son is almost 6 now, and he was a very late walker. He is still very clumsy to this day. He has obsessions or "special interests". Mostly cars and churches although these are fading somewhat, and he is now obsessed with the telephone. My son has never played with other children. He has always had good eye contact though and has always been very cuddly. When he was younger, he was a little more easy going, but now that he is almost 6, he is becoming a bit more demanding and bossy. He has trouble following directions, he wants to touch everything, and he has attention deficit issues.

Oh, and my son's speech has had a very strange development pattern. He had words on time, but we realized that he was not using them to communicate with us. He was mainly repeating things that he heard on tv, or that he heard others say. If you asked him a question, he would just repeat back what you said. This is called echolalia. He also referred to himself as "you" instead of "I" He would say " You want to go outside" and we knew that meant that he wanted to go outside. Most of this has been corrected with speech therapy.

This is my son in a nutshell. I am sure there is more, so please feel free to ask anything else that you are wondering about.

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Hello to you all, thanks so much for sharing your stories, i started a post in the general thread and this place seems a wee kinder for a muddled up mum!! You all sound really clued up, so thanks for your thoughts and talking about your precious kids. I do have a paed. appointment, so it will be wonderful to finally discuss my concerns - but realistly its going to be in about 4-6months time he is being 'priotised' at the mo, and even that takes 2 weeks so its really hard waiting, it a huge waiting list here and private is over $1000 so feels great to share my thoughts on here so thank you.

He was a late crawler 12months walked at 18months. Language was pretty standard, never really pointed at things i noted. Loved staring at ceiling fans too but only for a few months along with running constanly around the coffe table for months too. His passions have been toes/polish as a toddler! trees/chainsaws/cutting.... blocks/building.....now its microphones/music/instruments/singing mad - i love it!! ! all lasting for like over a year = i look forward to the next

I too beleive in gut feelings,,,the thing is I keep changing my mind lol! at the mo im thinking its abit of social anxiety - as he only has the signs, sometimes and generally 'thaws' out after a while, hes never like in a world of his own type thing- either - but i know his age and least if i go, when hes older say 10 or so, i know i tried earlier.
I still have not got his 4 year old immunisations yet....hes had all of the earlier shots but wondering 'just incase' to stop his signs getting any worse 'just incase'

Anyway thanks again BIG time!!

I don't know if this helps at all but a lot of the diagnostics I looked at with my son had me doubting. I thought I'd be spending a fortune to find out I was some kind of "hysterical mother". Some of the things in my son's report I was floored by as I didn't recognise them at all. One of the things that stands out is 'robotic prosody'. I was CERTAIN that my son had perfect language and didn't need a speech pathologist (despite the fact that he had echolalia for two years, it all sort of 'resolved' in my mind). It wasn't until a month or two later that he said something and I heard it for the first time. The right clinicians can often see things even we parents, who are "experts" in our own children miss. That was a huge (and a little bit scary) lesson for me.

I've been told my sons have British accents, and we're Canadian, with the British ancestors many generations removed! For the most part I can't hear it myself though, which leads me to agreeing wholeheartedly with Ominous' point about an experienced clinician seeing things we miss. The list the OP provided could very well be indicative of ASD or just a quirky, little bit socially immature 4 year old. A good clinician can help to sort it all out.

My sons also do not show signs in a consistent way. When they are very comfortable and healthy and having a good day they could pretty well pass for NT to all but a keen observer. When they are tired, stressed, ill, in a crowd, with a group of their peers or in a new situation the signs of ASD become very apparent.

My son really never pointed to things or show me things. That was really what started us down the road to autism. Because he was such a late walker, (21 mos), we had been taking him to physical therapy for that. Autism really wasn't even a concern. He always had good eye contact and laughed and was cuddly and affectionate to us. Once he started walking, I thought he would be fine. Then we realized that he was "scripting" or saying things from tv or his little books. He had memorized all of his littel books that we had been reading. He knew all of his shapes, letters, colors and numbers before he could walk. But, he never pointed out things of interest to me as a toddler. He did start doing that at about 4 yrs old, so it was just delayed.

Then he really started getting hooked on car makes and models. He was hooked on Volkswagons. Then it became churches. He could tell you the name of every church in town! LOL! He also flaps his hands when excited. He has always been pretty social with adults, but could care less for the most part what kids are doing. He is not mean to other kids or anything, he just pretty much avoids them unless prompted by an adult to interact with them. He has NEVER really played for more than about a minute with another child.

He is learning fairly well in school, but he does not really do his work unless a teacher sits right there with him. He is learning to read, and can write the shapes of all of his letters, and is now recognizing words on signs (STOP and DO NOT ENTER) He is talking much more conversationally now after about 4 yrs of speech therapy.

Hang in there. It sounds like your son probably is very mild, so things will be okay. It will be helpful to find out for sure, but I would just keep doing what you are doing with your son! Best of luck to you.

Yes, we found this, too - but finding out the issues they uncovered was sooo enlightening! It made all the difference in our family.

To the OP's question - one reason we kept rejecting the diagnosis of Aspergers, given by the school when DS was 7 or so, was because he would be "fine" for months at a time, and then fall apart, completely and violently; I had assumed that autism was a constant set of symptoms. Turns out, DS is an expert at covering up his differences and can keep it up for a huge length of time - it's amazing to see him totally change when he gets to therapy and all the other kids there have Aspergers, too; it made me realize the HUGE cost of keeping up the facade of "normal." When we finally got him to the right clinicians, they told us there are many kids like him, who observe and copy other kids so well as to be almost invisible.

At school, I saw him in the hallway once, chit-chatting with another kid and you'd never have guessed in a million years...but you can see the underlying stress if you look very closely, just like you can see him relax when he acts "Aspie."

This is my experience with my son as well. I have actually had people say "I wouldn't have guessed" when I was in a position where I felt like disclosing might help with something. Mainly they wouldn't have guessed because they haven't spent much time with my son to see those "very apparent" moments.

Wow I looked at your list and thought yep that's my son. My son was not diagnosed until he was nearly 19!! And the only reason I took him to a specialist was because it had become very obvious that there was something more than him just being very different. My son is so awkward when it comes to movement and yet he was a top runner at school. My son rocks constantly and when he is stressed it becomes very rapid. He has worn out several rocking chairs over the years!! What really made me worry was that he cannot do manual labor (he had dropped out of school at 15 thanks to a bully of a teacher) and yet he is so very bright. His older brother got him a job but that didnt work out either but at least I got good feedback. Shea can only do one thing at a time and even though he understands what hurry means he cannot physically make himself speed up (except for running). He cannot be given a list of things to do and left to do it - it wont happen.

So it is way better that you find out now - life would have been so much easier had we had a diagnosis at an earlier age. Now that he is an adult we get no help at all and trying to find support agencies who actually do get involved here in New Zealand is very very hard. Here in NZ - Aspergers is still very much an unknown and people are not sympathetic or helpful!!

So good luck - and dont stress too much - I feel very blessed to have an Aspie child - he may be single minded, passionate/obsessive about topics that interest him, but he is also caring, kind and funny. I just dont get lots of hugs from him!! LOL his little stepsister who is 10 just adores him and it looks hilarious when she is hugging him around the waist and he is leaning backwards away from her and patting her on the head!! (He is 6ft 3 and she is about 41/2 feet!! )

Hey thanks for your reply your son sounds cool! My son is super duper well behaved i love him so much. When I spoke to the gp about it he said (after 5 mins) "your son is perfectly 'normal' and it seems now every second kid is getting diagnosed with boarderline/mild aspergers..." .i was taken back by his comment - i thought it was uncalled for - but he referred me onto a paed 'just incase' and to 'ease my mind'. Anyway STILL waiting waiting for an appointment cant wait - im trying to not think about too much so I dont go crazy watching for signs etc etc haha!
Goodluck with your man - have you been intouch with autismnz? (0800autism) I think they do heaps of stuff for aspergers support/info etc etc i'll find the site if you like? They were fantastic about helping me out.

Thats cool your son had that list too!! What was he like at home though? Like when people came to visit etc? When you think back was it like he was in his own little world as such? My son doesnt seem to be.

Shea has a tendancy to disappear into the background when we get visitors. And I used to find that when he was at friends homes and they got visitors he would just quietly come home. I am so thankful that we had this incredible network of family and friends who allowed him to be himself and no big deal was ever made of it.

He absolutely hates big huge family functions when there are heaps of people especially in a confined area and lots of noise. It all gets too much for him so he will either leave or find a quiet spot somewhere.

I gather you are in NZ too - whereabouts? I am in Te Puke and Shea floats between me & my partner and his brother's or a friends house in Te Awamutu (which is where he grew up). If he doesnt visit TA on a regular basis his friends tend to kidnap him!!

I am like you I love my son to bits and wouldnt swap him for all the tea in china!!

Don't let the Dr put you off getting a diagnosis - it is really important that you do.

Shea was not diagnosed until he was 19 so we missed out on lots of help during the years when he really needed it. Thank god he had some wonderful teachers who allowed him to be him and didnt make him conform to their "perfect student" and understood that teaching him was in a different manner to the other kids in their classes. If we had known he had Aspergers back then he may have stayed at school and I could have done something about the bullying he suffered at high school from one of the teachers!!

Now he is on an Invalids Benefit (manual labouring jobs are no good for him - he is so clutzy and uncoordinated and can only do one thing at a time - slowly!! and he doesnt cope with going to polytech because of all the strangers.

And no-one from Workbridge or anywhere else who is meant to help him ever actually does. So frustrating!!

Hi. Yes Im in in Tuakau.
Well im sure it must have all come together once you knew. Gosh that is frustrating! Is he too frustrated? How is he on the computer, as there are many jobs doing stuff from home...even if it online surveys! or if hes good, he could do online courses to design websites or something similar so he can work by himself on the computer? Just throwing ideas?
The thing with my son he is perfectly social/normal at home - though today was an eye opener we had to go to hospital for a routine k.scan for him, he was a bit nervous etc and he kept making faces at people like big eyes/open mouth looking ever so uncomfortable in his own skin, and walking/standing very odd like - by the end of the scan he had semi warmed up to the dr and was doing well by answering her questions. At first when she asked him things he kept looking at me with funny facials he just looked so embarrsed like he just didnt know what to say or do, was so sad!! Then again that could very well be a shy/quirky 4yr old! Guess the paed. will set me straight. I hate waiting - it maybe another 6 months to get an appointment - & he starts school in November.
Thanks for sharing your story its good you have great family/friends who 'knew' him well - im pretty lucky that way too. So how is your boy with reading body language & understanding empathy? My son when safe/secure/knows close people hes fine but others not so well. Its great writing to you thanks for your replys

At age 4, my son had your son's exact list except head rubbing on carpet, touching bum, and loud voice. I know people say to make sure he gets a diagnosis this early but you might want to question that. The downside is that only specialized experts can diagnose at this age and you could get a diagnosis for something he can grow out of. The diagnosis doesn't change anything. Each aspie is different so you'll still be dealing with how to parent this particular child with these particular traits. I learned just from my son what works for him. Then at age 9 we had him unofficially diagnosed and I've been seeing a therapist to learn more of how to deal with him.

Mistake I made: I warned people that he was shy. That caused him to completely silent around my family and in pre-school. We got him out of it by quietly saying, I'm glad you're not a shy boy anymore, about once a day. When the teacher said it, he came home very proud. Obviously you aren't labeling him shy.

The big concern we had was that he'd be a big target in school. I've homeschooled him from kindergarten. It's not easy b/c he is often oppositional now that he's older but far better than a daily dose of bullying at school.
I hope this helps.