What to tell young NT children about AS friends?

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Hi All. I am the mother of a AS son who is 6 years old. Yesterday one of my friends asked me what she should say to her 6 year old about mine. Her son has mentioned that my son is sometimes not so nice and grabs toys and crashes into him. I really do not know what to tell her. Please can anyone help? xx

Friends of mine tell their children that my daughter's brain works differently and sometimes it tells her to be mad at things that don't bother most people, and sad at things that don't seem sad, and scared at things that don't seem scary, and really interested in things that don't seem interesting. They can explain how everyone is different in different ways and your son is different in the way his brain works.

Nothing. If your son is not being nice, it is you who needs to have a talk with your son, not your son's friend's mother with her son. Regardless of whether or not one has AS, there are ways to treat others and ways not to treat others, and others should not have to tolerate being treated poorly. If your son is grabbing toys and crashing in to his friend then you need to have a talk with him, tell him that is not ok to do, and if he keeps doing it, people won't want to be his friend.

Dear Chronos - everyday I talk to my son about how to be a nice gentle friend but sometimes he forgets.

Are you sure he forgets?......I mean i dont want to judge or anything if he does you'd probably have to try and find a way to get him to remember otherwise he could get in trouble and if that pattern were to continue he might think its ok to harras people later on in life. However children can tell lies so he might not be honest about forgetting.

This could just be about impulse control in a 6 year old- you can't expect him to have perfect impulse control (my 8 year old doesn't have great impulse control). So him knowing it and doing it are 2 different things. While the other kid shouldn't have to "take it" you can give him an EXPLANATION for the behaviors NOT an excuse for the behaviors. The mom can tell the other son that he can decide not to play with your son and say something like "If you take my car or push me again I will not play with you."

I disagree. This is not about anyone excusing the ASD child's behavior as OK it's about helping other kids realize that even though the ASD kid may be trying really hard the NT kid shouldn't hate him or her because he or she has poor impulse control. It is medically recognized that ASD people struggle more with impulse control and understanding social situations. If we were talking about a kid with Tourette's syndrome would you advise that the child with the syndrome should just be told to control their tics and verbal outbursts and that other children shouldn't be given an explanation that a very real medical condition exists? Encouraging compassion for all people is one of the best ways to prevent bullying. Sorry but Chronos, I think your attitude is one that contributes to bullying.

I take it the other Mom knows about your son having AS? Maybe it would be good to ask the classroom to do a disability awareness program and read some books about different kinds of abilities, as I am guessing your child is not the only child in the classroom with a difference. This is a book that may be more appropriate for slightly older children, but it was recommended to us http://www.amazon.com/dp/0975986821/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

This book is about kindergarten and sounds like it might be on the right track, but I haven't read it http://www.amazon.com/Kindergarten-Adve ... 1933750154 There's a book in our resource center about an autistic boy that thinks of himself as a superhero that I think is very good, I'll try to find the title for you.

It's also important for the other Mom to talk to her child about boundaries and strategies - I have never forgotten the time in kindergarten when I spoke harshly to another student (who probably had autism) and then told his Mom "everybody talks to __________that way, he's mean." I was modeling what the teachers did and said, and didn't know it wasn't appropriate to yell at the boy (and apparently, neither did my teachers when they thought they wouldn't get caught.) I wish I'd been told what to do when this kid grabbed and knocked my stuff over.

The other child could learn to calmly say, “I don’t like that” or “I’m not going to play with you if you take my toys” and be given steps and permission to follow through with a teacher.

I'm rambling, hope this helps.

I was thoroughly on board with Mama to Grace's answer, and I think it is lovely to get a little assistance from the other children in the community, rather than leaving the AS child - for whom this stuff IS hard - to learn the hard way. It's not like the hard way is the only way to learn; my son was just like the OP's, and his friends turned out to extremely good at nudging him to go through all the little niceties - once they had been informed my son's brain worked differently and he wasn't trying to offend them. As my son got older he was able to make more choices on following the niceties for the sake of keeping friendships, or forgoing them and letting chips fall where they may, but it really isn't fair to expect a 6 year old to fully understand how that small, immediate choice might ricochet. My is 14 and I STILL sometimes have to remind him how A is going to lead to B which is going to lead to C all the way down to result Z that he does NOT want.

Living in a world where everyone is a little more forgiving is, in my book, a GOOD thing.

Thank you Mama to Grace. I was feeling pretty upset about Chronos reply. I felt like a bad mum - while I am doing everything I can to help, support and understand my beautiful son. x

Thanks momsparky - great ideas and information xx

There is a double standard in this forum. I believe it is called the "Not MY child" phenomena, where you wish your children to be forgiven for behavior you would not wish them to be subjected to.

In many instances, I see parents lament over noxious stimuli their children have been exposed to, whether it be noise or other sensory issues in certain places or situations that the child can't tolerate, or children who have acted in a negative manner towards their child, and in these situations the desire of the parent is for the noxious stimuli to cease.

The parent is usually of the opinion that people should be more understanding, more considerate, turn the lights down, be more quite, and respectful of their child's needs, but when it is another child who is subject to noxious stimuli, the source being their own child, the same parent is of the opinion that that child should put up with it.

It took me until my late teens to realize that no, people should not always put up with me. People should not have had to tolerate being near me if I hadn't showered for a week and had BO. People should not have had to tolerate me screaming at them in most situations I did, even if I was justified in my anger. People should not have had to tolerate their needs being minimized for my wants, even if I didn't realize they had needs that should have been attended to.

This child the OP's son is having an issue with has absolutely no obligation to tolerate being treated poorly, or to try to enjoy playing with someone who treats him poorly, or to play with someone who treats him poorly, no matter the reason.

Sometimes children with AS have to learn things the hard way, and sometimes, it will take them years to learn it. Those who don't learn it for whatever reason are in for a lot of strife as adults.

That being said, you might have the mother tell her son how to respond when he is treated poorly by your son. For example, if your son grabs a toy, the little boy should remind your son that it's not nice to grab and it's against the rules. Your son should then apologize, give the toy back, and ask for it nicely. The boy can either give it to him or tell him he can play with it when he's done. If your son does not abide by these rules, the other child should not be required to make any more provisions.

If your son shoves the other child, the child can tell your son "Hey, it's not nice to shove. It hurts my feelings and if you do it again I'm not going to play with you any more today." At which point your son should apologize.

But if this boy does not want to play with your son, he should not be forced to.

It's not the other child's job or responsibility to help your child with anything, except perhaps a life threatening situation, and it is not unreasonable for a child to dislike a child who has poor impulse control.

The one time I ever came close to getting arrested was because I was with a classmate with ADHD/Bi-Polar Disorder who had poor impulse control and he did something he should not have when I was with him in a fastfood restaurant. The police were called and though I did nothing, I got a stern talking to about guilt by association. This same classmate, who I had forgiven for hanging up on me x number of times because he suddenly thought of something more exciting to do than talk to me, eventually ended up slapping me in the face x number of times during one of his manic episodes. He would have done so x more times if I hadn't been strong enough to tackle him to the ground and hold him in a head lock until he calmed down.

I decided after that that I did not need him as a friend though he was my only friend at the time. He was so stressful to be with, even though he couldn't help it, that I decided I much rather have no friends.



Most people with Tourette's whom I have encountered, understand their tics can be disruptive, and generally do not want to be in situations where they think they might bother others because the stress tends to make their tics worse. There is a vast difference between Tourette's and treating others poorly due to poor impulse control, empathy issues, and so on.

The OP seemed to be of the opinion that other children should have to play with her son even though he treated them poorly, and it was that notion I was objecting to. Likewise, I do not believe students should have to take a test in the same room as a student who has disruptive tics due to Tourette's. And likewise, I don't believe that a person should stay in an abusive relationship with a spouse simply because the spouse has poor impulse control for whatever reason.

I find it ironic that I, someone with AS understand this concept while many of the NTs here seem to be struggling with it. Perhaps it's because I have been on both sides of the issue.

I apologize if I had upset you. That was not my intent. Most parents have the instinct that drives them to request provisions for their own children at the expense of others. This is also why parents often have a difficult time believing their child would do something that their child would in fact do.

There exists within most species the biological drive to give their offspring an advantage over all others and this is not a fair game. That is to say, the parent of one offspring will not ensure the other offspring are as equally advantaged as their own.

But now we are straying from the subject at hand.

My parents were very understanding of my difficulties, and certainly did lobby on my behalf with respect to various things. However they drew the line at my behavior towards others, and when I did not treat others well, while I was usually not punished beyond a scolding, and verbal correction, they made it known to me that my behavior was unacceptable and they did not ask others to forgive me for it, rather they demanded I apologize to those I had wronged. This did not make up for any deficits in theory of mind I may have had, however it did instill in me the concept that it was wrong to treat others poorly, even if I could not determine I was treating them in such a manner at the time, and it did help to prepare me for the world as an adult.

Don't try to be a perfect parent because to succeed at that you would need a perfect child, and no such thing exists. Children on the spectrum can be very stubborn, whether intentionally or not. You are not going to be able to immediately correct all of your child's negative behaviors, and you should forgive yourself for that, but at the same time you want to be careful not to reenforce negative behaviors.

It seems to me you read a whole lot more into the original 3 sentence post than actually exists. The OPs friend asked the OP what she should tell her son about the OP son's behavior. She didn't say a thing about any expectations she had for her friend or her friend's son. Your responses are filled with what I think are misinterpretations of many things people on this board discuss. The one point I and others fully agree with you on is that the NT child should be encouraged to set boundaries with the ASD kid. I was not advocating in any way that the NT kid should be forced to play with someone who is repeatedly mean to him and who shows no remorse. What I do advocate is discussion about peoples' differences and how maybe we should give people another chance because we recognize that they may not be as good at some things as we are AND we may be able to learn something from them because they are better at other things than we are. To simply say that the NT child's mom shouldn't discuss ASD with her child is promoting ignorance not tolerance.

Chronos, you have a lot of insight and good advice but I find your responses to be callous and resentful towards parents. I think if you work on your approach, you may have a better chance of the parent understanding your point.