Sometimes I just would love my mom to fark off.

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You got some things wrong about me too but didn't bother correcting it all because from my experience, when I do that, people think I am contradicting myself. So I learned sometimes it's better to not correct people and let them be wrong about you because correcting them can make things worse between you two.

I was bothered by the AS vs NT thing yes. I prefer "people" or "society" since there really is no such thing as NT behavior.

Aspie1968 I am sorry I called you a douchebag.

I have been thinking what if there really is no such thing as NT. What if we're all just a hodgepodge of different genetic traits?

Personally, I believe love is the answer. Kindness is the answer. Charity is the answer. Loving others as you do yourself is the answer. I want to try to do for others without expecting anything in return.

I meant absolute wrath on a broader scale in life, not on an internet forum. Like when police officer decides it's a good idea to pepper spray a baby squirrel (see more @ Mesquite, Texas news).

I missed notifications on this topic and missed out on four pages. I love your approach, your honesty and your willingness to share, DW. I was also one of the ones who "skipped" the academic language posts you made aspie1968 (or tried to skim). I have a great deal of difficulty with academic language on fora. I have to translate what I read into pictures in my mind and I find it exhausting with "expansive" academic language.

Since everyone else has apologized, I shall have my turn. I am sorry for the choice of words I made. I also owe the OP one too but she hasn't been back so I hope she will accept my apology.

aspie1968, how do you know snivy was upset with my post? Or are you just assuming because you were, you assumed she was too?

I don't *know* as such, I'm making an informed guess, based on three premises: 1) she seemed upset in the last post she made (way back on page 2), 2) she disappeared without explanation and 3) I would've been upset if I were in her position, and I think I have a rough idea from analogy with my own problems what her problem was (i.e. it's the old channel-switching/multitasking problem). I might be wrong, but I also dislike and most people seem to dislike forum/website flak, which is what (maybe wrongly) it felt to me was happening.

Some of the academic language is... let's say hard to translate into anything else. It has strong concrete resonances for me, but maybe one needs certain kinds of pictures already in one's mind to make sense of them. I had something of a communicative breakthrough post-16 when I discovered the social sciences, and suddenly the world started making sense. I could actually explain things to other people, it was like a bridge between my world and theirs. Up until then, I was stuck in a world where I was using everyday terms in concrete and idiosyncratic ways to try to express myself, and there was a permanent gap between my use of terms and anyone else's. I really don't "do" common-sense, it still makes very little sense to me. I can only ever make sense of common-sense claims by running them through a semiotic or psychoanalytic frame, after which they make structural sense but very rarely intuitive sense. So people using a common-sense kind of language always seem to me to be in an alien world (I'd assume an NT world even if they aren't NT). What's frustrating is not so much that they don't know stuff, or see things through their frame, but that they don't seem to realise the frame is there, and don't realise how much of social life they don't know, and how much they think they know is really a thousand times more complicated than they think. I mean, I don't know much physics, but I know I don't know much physics, I wouldn't imagine I knew it all and the physicists were just using jargon or whatever.

Regarding whether NT exists, I think there's an ideal of what people are meant to be like which is built into the dominant system, a lot of effort goes into moulding people into this shape, and NT's are the ones who (however they started out) manage by and large to be moulded. Psychological diagnoses are used for those who have some kind of inner immovable object which either means they can't be moulded into this shape, or can't be moulded the usual way. But there seem to be several routes to the 'normal' type, it seems to be a range or spectrum, and it blurs at the edges into the various diagnoses. Ultimately it may well turn out that there's a much wider range of psychological types than are recognised today, and this realisation would initiate a slippage away from the ideas of the abstract individual and of human nature - we'd end up with a social balance of different psychotypes without reference to a normal type, and the concept of majority might disappear as well, since the majority could only ever be an alliance of some types to the exclusion of others. I think this creeping shadow of the death of the homogeneous subject is the reason why there's such an effort today to avoid expanding recognition of psychological difference, to insist that incapacity is 'no excuse' and people still have to be responsible (i.e. everyone can and ought to conform to the normal type in performance if not in psychology). I wonder if the NT type is more of a front, a social role, than an actual psychotype, i.e. I find myself arguing time and again with a particular conception of the person, with someone who presents a certain kind of social front, but behind the front they could be anything. At the same time, it's very clear that this front is not who I am or who I can be, and its effect (whatever the diversity behind it) is like I'm facing a near-homogeneous adversary over and over, with the same refusal or reluctance to admit that I'm not this and I never will be this.

Social realities exist outside of semiotic analysis. Just sayin'.

common sense is an interesting thing. it doesnt seem to be determined by intelligence. my aspie 14 yo has very little common sense, despite being quite intelligent, and it has led to a lot of frustrations in trying to raise him. he also has a corresponding lack of problem solving skills. the child couldnt reason his way out of a paper bag he simply cant see ways around an obstacle. we are trying to encourage him to work on this by not answering all of his questions and instead reminding him that he is capable of figuring it out. its working, somewhat, but he still has to actively work to find solutions and it doesnt come naturally or easy to him.

my 7 yo NT is the exact opposite, he can figure anything out, and is exceptionally logical. common sense not an issue for him at all. we worry very little about his future, but his older brother gives us a lot of concern. our little autie is very logical and a great problem solver, his common sense is often set aside due to his autistic traits, but i think that will fade as he ages.

i have a hard time understanding the NT stereotype, as despite being a supposed NT, i dont fit it and in my life have always befriended those that also didnt fit it. i have had little interaction with what would be considered a true NT. its much more of a societal stereotype than an actual psychotype, yes. i would go so far as to say that there are numerous non-autistic types out there, that are most often lumped into one type by autistics.

like the saying, if youve met one autistic, youve met one autistic. well, you cant claim that the autistic 1% of the population has all this individuality, and say the non-autistic 99% are all alike. it doesnt work that way. every single one of us is a unique individual, influenced by nature and nurture, a collection of our experiences and beliefs. the presence or absence of one particular neurological condition doesnt map out every aspect of who we are.

We tend not to have, and if my experience is anything to go by, he won't develop it. And, yeh, it has nothing to do with intelligence. If I understand the research right, it involves using the bit of the brain autistic people don't have (medial prefrontal cortex). Where intelligence comes in is in compensating for its absence. For instance, many of us can never guess how we should act in a social situation from social cues and the interpretation of abstract rules, but we might be able to draw up an increasingly complex set of concrete rules which perform a similar function. This is partly why you'll see autistic people coming out with what might look like absurdly rigid rules (in this thread we'd have "never use slang, only use dictionary English" or "never argue with the boss"). In my experience, the best bet is to minimise entanglements where 'common sense' might be required, by concentrating on tasks, interests and career-paths which are focused on intelligence (or on a special interest/fixation). Failing this, seeking out spaces where the rules and functioning are either very straightforward, predictable and literal, or flexible and minimal enough that thinking/reacting differently doesn't matter very much. We really need to play to our strengths rather than our deficits, which is always going to leave us in niches or on the margins rather than in the mainstream. It worries me that people get stuck in deficit thinking - "how can we get this person to do adequately all the things a 'normal' person would do easily", rather than thinking how to make the most of the strengths... I think this contributes to the problem of people hitting a huge hurdle if they're trying to find work. The job market works by comparative advantage, and difference / special needs count as costs, so an autistic person is always going to be at a comparative disadvantage in relation to something an NT person / a person who looks NT on the surface can do as well or better. In a climate of mass unemployment, we're only going to get jobs, either if some special allowance is made, or if we have a sufficiently large advantage to outweigh the disadvantages. Snivy for instance I'd have down as potential future games tester or programmer (did you know there's a games testing company that exclusively hires aspies?) though I might be a long way wrong with that.

What do people mean by common sense? I have noticed even none spectrum people lack it. I have been amazed at all the stupid things people have done that I wouldn't do and I wonder "who would be that stupid?" It is amazing how much common sense some people can lack. What about all those crazy lawsuits people do so companies have to put all these dumb warnings on their products to protect themselves and baby items say do not leave a child unattended because people can do stupid things. Also saying do not use the baby bouncer as a car seat. Who would? You be so surprised at what people can do. To me that is all common sense and I cannot believe people can lack it so there has to be warnings. Same as when I was doing the written test to get my driver's license, I came to a question asking you are on the freeway and you miss your exit. And one of the options was pull over and back up to the exit and get off and I wondered who would pick that option. I picked the get off at the next exit and get back on the freeway because that is what I always did when I miss my exit and that answer was correct. I noticed lot of the questions were based on common sense and I passed.

But when I was 22 my office clerk thought I lacked common sense. I had this issue until I started working day time and I didn't have to deal with him anymore because he worked swing shift. I "lacked common sense" because I had a hard time understanding his instructions and he get mad at me when I ask him questions so I'd understand and also the fact I had a hard time reading between the lines. My AS got in the way there, either that or it was him with the problem or maybe both. I guess that's why they call it an impairment and that it impairs you at work because of other people. If only they work with us, we won't have an impairment right? It's still an impairment if you need clear instructions and they give them to you and accommodate you. But my day time shift worked better because there was less interruptions and it was more structured so I was able to function better. Sometimes I wonder if it's because I was eating better too and lack of food can effect your brain functions and effect your working memory and make you forgetful. I felt a lot better and smart and more functional when I worked day time and was eating more food. The office clerk couldn't even be bothered to want to keep giving me reminders to make sure I did something but instead he get mad when I would forget, even if I wrote it down because I would forget to look at my note pad. I have a hard time remembering to do something that isn't in my routine and I would like a reminder if I forget.

Just like people in wheelchairs are still impaired even if they are living a normal and easy life because we have all these ramps for them and places for them to be on the train and bus so they aren't limited or impaired. But it's still an impairment because their legs don't work. Heck some of them even drive and have jobs. But yet it's still considered an impairment they have even if they don't feel impaired because of all these accommodations we have for them.

So I say everyone lacks common sense. Some people lack it more than others and everyone has their own common sense. I think the reason why they say aspies lack it is because we don't pick up on the cues or easily read between the lines or figure out the unwritten rules when it's obvious for everyone else and the fact we take things literal.

Some of them do. Others, perhaps, are best understood within the framework of semiotics.


I don't believe that's entirely accurate. There are aspects of social behavior that can be analyzed adequately in terms of power dynamics, for example, without having to worry about explicit analysis of either signs or the relationship between signs and referents.

I would agree that semiotics seems particularly useful in analyzing those parts of social relationships that are least intuitive to aspies.


This is a very good observation. And of course since the majority of the labor pool is neurotypical, most jobs are set up to be handled well by neurotypicals. It's only in those few jobs where the particular strengths of aspies are inherently important, such as games testing and certain forms of programming as you say, where aspies have a comparative advantage.

Hi guys (psychohist and aspie1968). I just want to respond to attempt to cohesively explain why I won't be responding. I appreciate your interest in sharing a perspective. I just have no interest in reading it if I have to internally translate. My life is very stressful and academia has developed into a real "issue" for me during the past two weeks in particular. 2000 word case study due in three weeks, a fair few realisations regarding academia and my place (or lack of place) inside of theoretical analysis, etc. I need to be self-centred right now or my brain is going to implode. I feel bad about not trying to discuss these things with you intelligently, but I just can't right now.

Some say the majority of people lack common sense. There are cops who say civilians lack common sense. My question is how is common sense common then and how does common sense truly exist at all?

For all of those who apologized, apology accepted. I do have one request for all of you, please, don't flame each other anymore. I really don't like flames. DW_a_Mom, there is no need to apologize, it would be nice to see things from the perspective of NT Parents.

Anyway, thanks all for the wonderful advice. Despite several pages of derailment.

My apologies for not coming sooner. I was so busy with things that I completely forgot about this thread. No, you didn't scare me away.

I do have one request - How does one manage to transition to adulthood? I'm finding it so difficult right now. There's no textbook or any sort of guide out there that tells you what you need to do, and how to do it. My mom still encourages me to find work, however, since there are no jobs available right now, and even if there were, I generally limit my choices to something that matches my capability.

Transitioning to adulthood is about taking responsibility for your own life. This isn't just about you - it's also about your parents letting you do it and perhaps even helping you do it.

Getting a job is generally a critical part of the transition, unfortunately. I don't know your educational status, but additional education can also help with getting a job in the medium term of a few years. Those are two things you might be looking at.

I do of course understand that getting a job is not nearly as easy as "get a job" can imply. There is unfortunately a lot of human interaction in the job interview process. However, while stressful, it's not really dangerous.

I noticed in a bookstore today that What Color is your Parachute is still in print, and it may be a helpful guide.

I'm not sure what you mean by "something that matches your capability". If what you mean is, "something that is within your capability", I would say not to be afraid of applying for a job that's a bit of a stretch - you might turn out to be able to do more than you thought! If what you mean is, "something that uses all your skills", realistically you may have to accept what you can get, at least at the beginning of your career.

There may be few jobs right now, but the job market is picking up and should be better over the summer. I know there are more opportunities opening up in my industry, and more entry level jobs seem to be opening up as well. For example, McDonald's is trying to hire 50,000 new people:

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers.html

I'm not saying that those are necessarily jobs that are appropriate for you specifically, but they're an indication of where the job market as a whole is going. A lot of people turn up their noses at food service, but those jobs can be good to get a little work experience for people who have none, even if they aren't planning to stay in that industry very long - my first job was a part time job in food service, myself.

Transitioning to adulthood also often means having an apartment of your own - sounds like that might be nice in your situation - perhaps having a car, and being able to spend time with the people you choose to associate with, rather than those your parents choose to associate with. Unfortunately all of those generally require money, which is why so many people are emphasizing the "job" part.

I do want to see if I can work with you on this, and actually try be useful this time (can't guarantee I'll succeed ). But ... right now, crazy work deadline. Can we start over in about a week?

Hey Snivy - I just want to say that my responses were genuine in trying to help you understand what I assumed your mom's perspective is. I did not mean to bully, that is not me. I was genuinely trying to be helpful. The perspective comes from someone who is having a hard time meeting their AS son's multiple needs, while meeting any of their own. I have grown weary of hearing how tough it is for him when we practically cater to his every whim. there's no one catering to mine.

Life is hard and messy, no one gets a manual NT or AS. We just show up and do the best we can. In a nutshell, I think that is the transition advise I have for you. Do the best you can, really. If you can't sometimes you can't, but when you can do for someone else what would be helpful, do it. It means so much fo us moms to have the kids do something nice without us demanding it.

With respect to the work situation - please go volunteer somewhere. It will keep your working skills honed and your resume active. In addition, you can focus your energies on something that matters to you. With the economy as it is, there is so much you can do to help. By helping others you will help yourself.

I went on a business trip and was stunned at all of the posts on this thread.

Peace to all