07 Apr 2010, 8:54 pm
07 Apr 2010, 9:18 pm
07 Apr 2010, 9:23 pm
07 Apr 2010, 9:27 pm
jojobean
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Age: 49
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,341
Location: In Georgia sipping a virgin pina' colada while the rest of the world is drunk
08 Apr 2010, 12:44 am
08 Apr 2010, 11:41 am
08 Apr 2010, 12:02 pm
DenvrDave
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 790
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
08 Apr 2010, 12:18 pm
jojobean, I agree with everything you wrote and think that you have provided excellent insight and advice. Thank you so much for sharing 
This is worth repeating:
jojobean wrote:
I had a really hard time with cause and effect but I overcome it when my parents learned imediate and short consquence for actions ...consistantly and not just negitive consquence too but positive consquence....You need to be drilling him every day
every action he takes...You did A so this is the B result. Whether it is making his bed without whining...You say "you made the bed without whining...good the result is you get 20 min of video games.
Or
You did not make the bed and you whinned...the result is I will remove the video games for the day. If he says that he cant help it.
Then say that I cant help it either...I have to remove the video games...your action...caused that reaction.
My dad used to explain to me that If I wreck someones car...even if I did not mean to do it...I still had to pay for it.
But the most important thing you can do to help his thinking things out is to teach him the 4 step problem solving process
which is very much like the scientific method simplified. You first have to teach him to think in the first place.
It goes like this
Step 1 Name the problem (this is half the battle for a young autistic kid)
Step 2 make a list of 10 possible solutions
Step 3 pick the best solution
Step 4 If that does not solve the problem go back to step 3 or even Step 2
You need to role play with him what to do in stressful situations...ask him what kids do to make him mad and to role play these events until he has learned to react in a way that is respectful.
You may not teach him to think from anouther's point of view...but you can train him to how to react to situations that make him seem like he is being considorate.
As far as the whole idea that the boy needs to learn some respect...you will get nowhere fast with that kind of thinking. That kind of thinking says that you think it is just a behavioral issue. It is more than that...he is unable at this stage of his life and his condition to think beyond himself...you can only train him by role play and 4 step problem solving to act in a way that does not wreck havok on others. Autistic kids are developmentally delayed by several years...He probably has the reasoning of a 5-6 year old child. At that age, they cannot think from anouther's point of view. He probably will not develop that thinking beyond himself until he is in his mid-teens.
But I strongly recomend role playing with him all the social situations in which he gets stressed out...tell him what behavior you want him to do...and reenact it until he just does the desired behavior out of habit. That is the only way you can overcome the impulsetivity and use that 4 step process I told you about....It works wonders but he has to be fully emersed into it every aspect of his life is 4 stepped
every action he takes...You did A so this is the B result. Whether it is making his bed without whining...You say "you made the bed without whining...good the result is you get 20 min of video games.
Or
You did not make the bed and you whinned...the result is I will remove the video games for the day. If he says that he cant help it.
Then say that I cant help it either...I have to remove the video games...your action...caused that reaction.
My dad used to explain to me that If I wreck someones car...even if I did not mean to do it...I still had to pay for it.
But the most important thing you can do to help his thinking things out is to teach him the 4 step problem solving process
which is very much like the scientific method simplified. You first have to teach him to think in the first place.
It goes like this
Step 1 Name the problem (this is half the battle for a young autistic kid)
Step 2 make a list of 10 possible solutions
Step 3 pick the best solution
Step 4 If that does not solve the problem go back to step 3 or even Step 2
You need to role play with him what to do in stressful situations...ask him what kids do to make him mad and to role play these events until he has learned to react in a way that is respectful.
You may not teach him to think from anouther's point of view...but you can train him to how to react to situations that make him seem like he is being considorate.
As far as the whole idea that the boy needs to learn some respect...you will get nowhere fast with that kind of thinking. That kind of thinking says that you think it is just a behavioral issue. It is more than that...he is unable at this stage of his life and his condition to think beyond himself...you can only train him by role play and 4 step problem solving to act in a way that does not wreck havok on others. Autistic kids are developmentally delayed by several years...He probably has the reasoning of a 5-6 year old child. At that age, they cannot think from anouther's point of view. He probably will not develop that thinking beyond himself until he is in his mid-teens.
But I strongly recomend role playing with him all the social situations in which he gets stressed out...tell him what behavior you want him to do...and reenact it until he just does the desired behavior out of habit. That is the only way you can overcome the impulsetivity and use that 4 step process I told you about....It works wonders but he has to be fully emersed into it every aspect of his life is 4 stepped
08 Apr 2010, 2:13 pm
08 Apr 2010, 11:29 pm
Caitlin wrote:
oncebitten wrote:
Did ya think about how you brother might feel? Blank stare. Okay - go get me your (whatever her toy of the moment was) and a hammer. Then I'd break it. Talk about an upset child. But guess what - she KNEW how it felt to have someone do it to her.
You won't get a child to be compassionate, understanding, or disciplined this way. You might get lucky, but 9 times out of 10 this kind of punishment will only make a child angry and vengeful. It's the same premise as spanking a child while telling them that hitting is not ok.
You're totally wrong. Both of my kids are compassionate and loving. Ask me why we have had a field mouse for the past 6 years. Because the cat found it and they had to nurse it back to health. By the time it was healthy it was too cold to be put back outside - by the time it was warm enough - the mouse was too dependant on the kids for food.
We have an older couple (in their 80's) that live next door. The kids go over and help them rake their yard and shovel their snow. Without being asked or told or paid.
The local humane society was collecting food and supplies for the shelter at our grocery store. My daughter made me go back to the store so she could buy a few things - with her own money - to give to them. Did the same thing when Faith In Action was collecting donations there too.
Yeah - my kids are absolute heathens, hateful I tell ya.
They have more compassion and consideration than most adults.
We tried to do the you break it you buy a replacement - but it didn't work. The money aspect really didn't mean much. And they earn their own money. Putting themself in the other's shoes - feeling bad like that DID get to them. Sometimes you do need to know how something feels to appreciate the pain you can cause someone else. It's not as if my kids 'want' for anything... If anything they probably have too much - more than they appreciate at times. But I do know that they are more appreciative/respectful than they would be toward other's belongings because they don't want anything to happen to theirs.
I probably should tell you about the time I threw away all the toys they'd left out after I told them to put them away umpteen times - about half with the warning of what would happen if I had to do it. They didn't leave their stuff outside all over the place anymore.
I'll PM you my number if you want to call Child Protective Services on me.
BTW - I don't spank my kids. And we ALWAYS sit down and talk about why they are being punished and how they could have avoided being punished. Their understanding of the situation is a more important lesson than the punishment itself. Responsibility = Accountibility = Consequences.
09 Apr 2010, 11:28 am
09 Apr 2010, 11:41 am
09 Apr 2010, 12:29 pm
09 Apr 2010, 12:51 pm
DenvrDave wrote:
jojobean, I agree with everything you wrote and think that you have provided excellent insight and advice. Thank you so much for sharing
This is worth repeating:
This is worth repeating:
jojobean wrote:
I had a really hard time with cause and effect but I overcome it when my parents learned imediate and short consquence for actions ...consistantly and not just negitive consquence too but positive consquence....You need to be drilling him every day
every action he takes...You did A so this is the B result. Whether it is making his bed without whining...You say "you made the bed without whining...good the result is you get 20 min of video games.
Or
You did not make the bed and you whinned...the result is I will remove the video games for the day. If he says that he cant help it.
Then say that I cant help it either...I have to remove the video games...your action...caused that reaction.
My dad used to explain to me that If I wreck someones car...even if I did not mean to do it...I still had to pay for it.
But the most important thing you can do to help his thinking things out is to teach him the 4 step problem solving process
which is very much like the scientific method simplified. You first have to teach him to think in the first place.
It goes like this
Step 1 Name the problem (this is half the battle for a young autistic kid)
Step 2 make a list of 10 possible solutions
Step 3 pick the best solution
Step 4 If that does not solve the problem go back to step 3 or even Step 2
You need to role play with him what to do in stressful situations...ask him what kids do to make him mad and to role play these events until he has learned to react in a way that is respectful.
You may not teach him to think from anouther's point of view...but you can train him to how to react to situations that make him seem like he is being considorate.
As far as the whole idea that the boy needs to learn some respect...you will get nowhere fast with that kind of thinking. That kind of thinking says that you think it is just a behavioral issue. It is more than that...he is unable at this stage of his life and his condition to think beyond himself...you can only train him by role play and 4 step problem solving to act in a way that does not wreck havok on others. Autistic kids are developmentally delayed by several years...He probably has the reasoning of a 5-6 year old child. At that age, they cannot think from anouther's point of view. He probably will not develop that thinking beyond himself until he is in his mid-teens.
But I strongly recomend role playing with him all the social situations in which he gets stressed out...tell him what behavior you want him to do...and reenact it until he just does the desired behavior out of habit. That is the only way you can overcome the impulsetivity and use that 4 step process I told you about....It works wonders but he has to be fully emersed into it every aspect of his life is 4 stepped
every action he takes...You did A so this is the B result. Whether it is making his bed without whining...You say "you made the bed without whining...good the result is you get 20 min of video games.
Or
You did not make the bed and you whinned...the result is I will remove the video games for the day. If he says that he cant help it.
Then say that I cant help it either...I have to remove the video games...your action...caused that reaction.
My dad used to explain to me that If I wreck someones car...even if I did not mean to do it...I still had to pay for it.
But the most important thing you can do to help his thinking things out is to teach him the 4 step problem solving process
which is very much like the scientific method simplified. You first have to teach him to think in the first place.
It goes like this
Step 1 Name the problem (this is half the battle for a young autistic kid)
Step 2 make a list of 10 possible solutions
Step 3 pick the best solution
Step 4 If that does not solve the problem go back to step 3 or even Step 2
You need to role play with him what to do in stressful situations...ask him what kids do to make him mad and to role play these events until he has learned to react in a way that is respectful.
You may not teach him to think from anouther's point of view...but you can train him to how to react to situations that make him seem like he is being considorate.
As far as the whole idea that the boy needs to learn some respect...you will get nowhere fast with that kind of thinking. That kind of thinking says that you think it is just a behavioral issue. It is more than that...he is unable at this stage of his life and his condition to think beyond himself...you can only train him by role play and 4 step problem solving to act in a way that does not wreck havok on others. Autistic kids are developmentally delayed by several years...He probably has the reasoning of a 5-6 year old child. At that age, they cannot think from anouther's point of view. He probably will not develop that thinking beyond himself until he is in his mid-teens.
But I strongly recomend role playing with him all the social situations in which he gets stressed out...tell him what behavior you want him to do...and reenact it until he just does the desired behavior out of habit. That is the only way you can overcome the impulsetivity and use that 4 step process I told you about....It works wonders but he has to be fully emersed into it every aspect of his life is 4 stepped
I'm with Denver Dave and Jojobean totally. My son has this same issue and this is the approach I use with him. It's not quick, it's not easy, and it takes a really long time (years even), but I think it's the best way. My son also doesn't take fault with anything and is very disrespectful at times He really can't help it, and he struggles with his impulses and language issues all the time. He calls it his "life" and he says it's another person inside of him that controls him. He tries to control it but he can't. He has recently called it good and bad germs taking over his brain and mind, and has connected that with language difficulties. When he is talking, he can express in his own way how much he tries and how hard it is for him. When the bad germs are out, they lock away his mind and brain so they can't work, and that is when the words don't come out like normal, and that's when he hurts people, and he feels bad because he can't control it.
I know this is really hard for someone to wrap their head around, but for these kids i believe teaching is the way to go. Punishment doesn't send the same message to these kids as they do to neurotypical kids. They try, they really do, and punishment can easily make them feel bad about themselves because they try and they still get in trouble because they don't know how to deal things, people, stress, novelty etc.. My son is happy, despite his language difficulties, social loneliness, difficult behavior and nightmares. He does improve. Slowely, but he does.
Good Luck! This is a very hard issue with a very long process for correction.
09 Apr 2010, 12:52 pm
09 Apr 2010, 1:00 pm
