Eldest son in hospital

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One thing while you are looking into these programs for the younger kids - remember that AS kids tend to need more down time than NT kids. While you want your kids to function at their interest level, you also don't want to over-schedule and stress them; we've actually pulled our son from some gifted classes and programs because of work load issues; it can go up quite a lot, and my son did not find the extra work meaningful. He loved the in-class discussion and fast pace, but was not happy with the idea of more homework, which often goes hand in hand. In elementary school we were able to have it both ways - reduced workload within an advanced section - but in Middle School they absolutely refused to make any adjustments or accommodations within an advanced class, saying that since a return to on-level schooling was available, they didn't have to. One of our elementary school specialists was appalled when she heard that, but did some research and found out it was totally within the law. So, we get stuck having to choose between two less than optimal options, and my son has chosen more often to go on-level and have free time to learn on his own outside of school. For him, that has been better; his stress level when in the advanced language arts program was unmanageable. He tried so hard to keep up, and the concepts were never the issue, just the sheer volume of work and his slower speed in physically completely it. It was really hard for him to let go and agree that on-level would be better, and a structure change in the school actually made it a non-issue (they experimented last year with not having any advanced classes). He is much more at peace now. Advanced math, thankfully, hasn't carried the same issues; it is just faster, without having "more," so he has been able to stick with that.

I guess I'm just asking that you really watch with the younger two how that whole interaction of factors will come together. The world at large doesn't understand that gifted isn't the same as wanting more to do. For some kids, yes, but for most AS kids - no. They then get trapped by loving and hating it all at once, and not knowing what to do. My son is not as highly gifted as your kids, but he is officially gifted, and I wonder if some of the same dynamic might have accelerated the situation with your oldest child. It could be easier to see in a child lower on the chart than in one higher; the later has more to lose by admitting it's all too much.

The programs I'm talking about aren't a lot of work for the kids. The Davidson would be acting as a consulting agency unless we were able to move to Reno where they have a Middle and High School where the kids would attend full time just like any public school, except they'd be able to work at their own pace and have access to experts who could help them with their special interests. Duke's TIP program is very low key. There are fun things online the kids can do, and they get a great price on taking the EXPLORE test, and there are prizes if they succeed. They also have a writing contest which is optional. My kids wouldn't be doing any intensive test prep for EXPLORE. Little guy just learns by osmosis. Duke also has newsletters they send out with fun stuff the kids can do and newsletters with tips for parents. They have some online activities that the kids can do if they like. It's not anything intensive.

One of the big battles we've had with the school is that the school wants them to do huge amounts of boring and inappropriate work all day then make up for the deficits in their education at home. They are way too tired after being chained to desks all day to do any meaningful school work.

My goal isn't to push my kids academicly. My goal is to help them remain happy and well balanced. For Little Guy that means intensive academic challenge. He's not a "regular" gifted kid, he's what they call "profoundly gifted." It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't dealt with a profoundly gifted child. The pure joy he gets from academics is astounding. He giggles and wiggles when doing calculus because it's just FUN FUN FUN to him. Last school year he had to do endless simple calculations and read books 5+ grade levels below his actual reading level for hours each day at school. To him that is like chinese water torture and is very harmful.

Middle son is just a lot calmer. He's incredibly smart but copes a lot better with boring school work. He's better at daydreaming and ignoring what's going on. He still aces the tests and assignments so his teachers don't mind. Little Guy doesn't have that skill. He's too intense.

Eldest Son could probably catch up academically if he tried but if he ends up with a Special Ed diploma he won't be eligible for college, and he definitely won't be eligible for the kinds of robotics programs he's always dreamed of. It's his dream and he's got to do it himself. It's hard to watch someone you love doing very self destructive things.

Hello there Kiley,

I am sorry that the situation has deteriorated to the level that it has, and I wish you all the strength in the world to get through this mess. The only thing I would like to add is that I would be careful about labeling things as 'psychotic stuff'. If your son is hallucinating, or delusional, then psychosis would be a valid diagnosis. But based solely on my interpretation of what you have written, it seems more like your son is just worn out, overwhelmed, and has become depressed and given up on life. Neither one of those is good situations, but the importance is to realize that becoming depressed, and overwhelmed, should not be treated with anti-psychotic medication. Anti psychotic medications like abilify and risperidal are depressants which actually make the problem much worse when your child is already depressed. They work well if your son's brain is racing a mile a minute and he needs help to calm down. But based on what I can tell, your son is already depressed, what he needs is a pick me up, and not a depressant.

I am not a fan of scare tactics, but there are quiet a few autistic people who have been given anti-psychotic medications due to complications surrounding depression, and it has had disastrous results. If you want, just go on to the main forum and ask people about the medications they have received for depression.

I'm not saying that all medication is bad, you may have some luck with anti-anxiety meds, or anti-depressants. But anti-psychotics are really the last thing you want to give to somebody who is already depressed and low on energy.

Tracker,

You are so right to post that advice and it worries me that Aspies and Auties are sometimes misdiagnosed with Psychotic disorders they don't have. Sadly my son does have Psychotic Disorder-NOS and has had both hallucinations and delusions since he was 9. These symptoms developed almost a year after he'd been dx'd officially with AS and ADHD, though we'd known he wasn't typical since birth. At that age he had a complete psychotic break while visiting his father in another city. I was called by a Dr down there asking if they should admit him or transport him home to see his own Dr. I brought him home and took him to the Dr who'd been treating his ADHD and who knew him well. At this point he is taking Geodon, Prozac and Lithium. He had a good long run on Seroquel but that stopped working several months ago. He's tried several meds that he had bad reactions to. I think the only thing we haven't tried yet are the anti-seizure meds that sometimes help.

I was thinking about what you guys were saying about pushing kids and I think I know what you mean. I see a lot of that at the camps and things my guys go to. My kids go because they WANT to go. It's the highlight of their year. The night before oceanography camp began Middle son slept for maybe 2 hours. He was just too excited to settle down, he kept coming in to me and telling me how many hours until camp would start...all night. Little Guy talks about the Math and Writing camps he attends all year, and when things are really hard (boring) at school he relives those memories over and over again. I have noticed that some of the other kids at these camps obviosly don't want to be there. I guess their parents feel it's good for them and they ought to do it so they make them go. Those camps are only for gifted kids, so none of them are there because they need remedial work. I never understood why some of them didn't seem thrilled. It's probably good for some of them to be pushed, but probably not for most spectrum kids. It never dawned on me that parents might make their kids go. It took a little bit for me to realize that's what you were talking about.

Your posts are very helpful DW. Even if they don't always apply they give me something to think about. I've been overwhelmed lately, obviously and the support and input has helped a great deal. Frequent calls to my Mom and emails with my best friend haven't hurt either!

The Dr had projected today as the possible release day for Eldest. I'm waiting for the phone to ring. It takes about 3 hours for me to get there. I'm hoping they call soon so I can get going.

I feel for you. I wish I could give you some sort of helpful advice...I cannot. I've never been faced with what you are going through. You are a very reasonable person..I know you will do what is ultimately right. Whatever can be done...you will do. Don't forget about yourself too. Keep your strength and endurance up. Hoping for the best....keep us informed.

best of luck to him