"I don't know what you mean by 'feel'"

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Everything you wrote is so familiar. Especially this above. And you do and will have to keep teaching each little thing. I felt like I put in 150% more effort than any of the parents I observed around me, and yet with far poorer results. Our twin sons were diagnosed at 7 years old. I had not even considered Autism and never even heard of Aspergers prior to the psychologist bringing it up during our first meeting. Our sons are now 10, over the past 2.5 years we have learned so much and are parenting so much more effectively, and our sons are responding. I even discovered that I have many Aspie traits myself, and this is partially why so many of my sons' quirks just didn't seem that unusual to me. When I first came to Wrong Planet I had most of the same questions that you do, and I have learned more here than from all the books I've read put together, so I think you are in the right place. I think back at some of the things we did as parents before I knew anything about ASD and I cringe, but now that we know better, we do better and that's what's important. So don't beat yourself up.

In response to your original question about emotions, I agree with the previous posters. Inability to express emotions does not prove lack of emotion. My sons will also respond to "how do you feel?" with "I don't know". Sometimes suggesting possible feelings so they can chose from a,b,c or d can help (multiple choice easier than open ended general question), or sometimes we just need to back off and come back to the question at a different time when they are more calm and comfortable.

The extreme rages could absolutely be caused by frustration at his inability to communicate or understand his feelings, or from being overwhelmed (too much sensory stimuli), or from feeling pushed or cornered. One of the quickest ways to trigger a meltdown for one of my sons is to keep talking "at" him when he is beginning to show signs of stress, and for the other son feeling like he is not being heard will rapidly drive his frustration levels beyond his capacity to handle. Both sons will panic and explode when they feel cornered (verbally, such as being accused of something or physically like having someone get in their face/personal space talking to them). Our OT had us keep a meltdown journal for awhile writing down the when, where and why of each meltdown over the period of several weeks) and this helped us learn a lot about what their triggers are. This is a simple thing, but may help for your son if you haven't already done it.

The more that I read here, the more that I know that my daughter is on the spectrum - she may have other co-morbid issues as well, but she does so many of the things that you all describe.............
She also has a hard time expressing what she is feeling emotionally. She can say I'm angry - but that wasn't always the case. I remember working with her (along with her daycare providers) to "use her words" - we would re-direct her and give her the appropriate words to use to express her feelings: "I don't like that, I'm getting angry". It took quite a while for her to begin to use words this way - which was very, very odd, as she has always had a very exacting command of language, since she was very small. She never used the typical "me do it". It was always "I will do it". She does have a couple of words that she says when she is upset - she will say "you are making me angry" (she rarely says I am getting angry), and that she is "annoyed" or someone is being annoying. I have never heard her say that she is sad (and contrary to the bi-polar thing, I've never seen her depressed or down - although, I do realize that agitation/anger may be the way that some children express depression. I really don't think that I've heard her say that she's "happy" either - you can tell when she is, by her physical actions, however (smiling, excited, etc.). Even when our cat died, she never expressed that she was sad. She did say that she missed our kitty and cried, but never used the word sad. She also cannot tell you that she is afraid or anxious. You can tell that she is by the way she acts (freaking out over bugs, fixating on shadows (thankfully, the fear of the dark has subsided a bit), but not from her stating what she's feeling.

I, too, feel like I've been living under a rock with all of this - for several reasons. Partly because of the "stereotypes" and the misconceptions, and from plain old trusting in the "experts" to be able to figure out what is going on (and I'm not being jaded here, as I do realize that many behaviors can indicate one of several different diagnoses, that there could be co-morbid diagnoses, and that diagnosis in young children is difficult at best, especially in the higher functioning end of the spectrum). Her school unequivocally maintains that she does not have / qualify as autistic (contrary to the PDD diagnosis that we received before the "potential bi-polar" diagnosis was thrown in).

And, that is a fact. Just now I have cocked my head a bit while wondering what to do with that kind of question.



You know those words as "feeling words", and that is fine, but he only knows them as tags placed upon certain actions or physical appearances of others.



It is very difficult for me to recognize myself as "angry, sad, happy, etc." until after the fact.



Sure, because they are very real and not dependent upon self-awareness.



My rages have been diminished greatly over the past several years, but yes, at least in my own case ... and I believe that has something to do with my internals having been host to an accumulation of stuff that is ultimately detonated by some even-ever-so-small "last straw".



Not at all.



Not in my own case. Rather, I just do not know what they are/were until later.



Please allow me to digress for a moment ...

No human being can recall the feeling of physical pain. We can remember having *felt* pain, but we cannot re-feel physical pain. Yet just as soon as a repeat sensation of some/any physical pains begins, we can usually quickly recall the last time we felt that pain, and we can predict where it is likely to lead.

At the emotional level, each and every feeling I ever have might as well be considered the first since I have no data base of past feelings to reference.



As I began reading through this thread, I had to stop and go back to the top and simply begin posting in order to escape the increasing "emotional discomfort" I was experiencing while reading and trying to put everything together ... and that is what happens if/when someone might press me about how I "feel" ... and I cannot possibly keep from getting ugly if they persist any more than either of us could stand still with a flame burning a fingertip ... and I hope this post has been as helpful to you and/or someone else as its writing has been for me.

I just started to do this - great suggestion. One of the comments that came out of the last IEP was that DD's outbursts were "unpredictable", that "anything" could cause them. Which is partly true - it's usally the last straw that breaks the camel's back, no? However, I am finding that they are VERY predicatable - maybe not so much the exact second that she will explode, but the things that cause her to escalate.



These are the EXACT things that will rapidly escalate my daughter. Teasing from other children is another.....and having things be "unfair". Although, the "unfair" is many times her own unique interpretation of "fair". She also thinks that she needs to "enforce" the rules. I am constantly reminding her that her brother's infractions are not her worries and that she is not the parent (not that it does any good). I haven't figured out how to handle that one yet - I'm sure it gets back to the whole "fair/unfair" thing somehow, though.

Note to the OP. Being able to answer the "how do you feel?" (or worse, "how did that make you feel?") question is very important, to avoid having labels stuck on oneself. Have your son study this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emotions. It lists most human emotions in a, dare I say it, logical format. It will help your son understand what answers people are looking for when they ask questions about feelings. Also, he will avoid countless meltdowns by being able to answer those questions "correctly".

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with simply feeding a line to someone who's prying into your world. Explain it to your son as a white lie of sorts (if he knows that concept already). This is especially true with therapists (a.k.a. shrinks) who, for some reason, get a kick out of asking "how did that make you feel?". While lying to a therapist is often counterproductive, in this case, it's anything but, because a meltdown can count against a patient. When I first learned what answers therapists what to hear, and gave them as needed, I remember getting a self-esteem boost from knowing how to outsmart someone with a Ph.D.

Sometimes when I'm watching my son, for no apparent reason I can see an expression of intense sadness flicker over his face, tears start to well, then he might go back to a blank expression then shortly be smiling at nothing.
I wonder is he not sure of how he is feeling?

Thanks for sharing that I have been trying for only 5 minutes with my boy, I know he can talk since he used to..well he could a year ago, I think I nearly got him to say marshmallow a few days back. I'm gonna try for longer.

That would be my guess, then possibly coupled with a fear of not knowing what to do with it even if he did know. For myself, many things inside can only make sense to me after I can hear myself actually speak them (verbalizing in order to be able to sort and categorize for analysis, perspective, clarity, etc.), and I can only do that with someone else present when I know that person is absolutely trustworthy (not a gossip or busybody) and is not in any way going to criticize, correct or condemn.

More wonderful information for me.

Today I was dropping my son off at his classes. He is taking classes at the Center for Gifted which is a program through National Lewis (Louis?) University. I overheard a teacher and parent talking. The teacher said he is teaching a whole generation of Aspergers children here....interesting.

Great wiki emotions website!

Whenever he was asked "How do you feel?" my grandfather always answered, "With my hands." It was just a joke, but it sums up what I believe is the answer to all the "I don't know's" that Aspie's give for an answer to "How do you feel about [whatever]."

I used to give the same answer when I was a kid, and usually still do. It's not a matter of never showing emotions, I don't think. I do think it is a matter of not really "feeling" anything about so many things NT's tend to feel things about. "Feeling" to me had to do with actual physical feelings. Feelings to me had to be physically felt. Like a tug or knot in the gut, or the ache that puppy love can cause. Those, to me, are real feelings. Anything that doesn't produce a parallel physical feeling, doesn't qualify.

There are only a few emotions that actually cause parallel physical feelings in me. Anger is one. Rage is another. Infatuation is another. I don't equate love with emotions. To me, love is something you do, not something you feel. Sadness is something I rarely feel, and don't like to talk about much. It's private, and I prefer to deal with it my own way. I don't need or want any help with it, so I'll tend to answer with a shrug if I feel sad (and yes, sadness is a real one for me.

Feelings that are more ambiguous though, I don't experience. I can't identify with them. Click here for a list of feelings. (<<<<That's a link there. ) If you look at that list, there are probably only about 20 to 30 percent of them I can identify at all with. Most are not feelings to me, because they don't produce physical reactions internally. I don't feel subtle emotions. Only strong ones. Many situations, for me don't require any feelings.

It's extremely frustrating to grow up in a world that expects everyone to be able to feel all of those things. It's even more frustrating to constantly be asked, "How do you feel about [whatever]?" answer, "I don't know." or "Nothing," and be constantly told, "What do you mean 'NO?!' You MUST feel SOMETHING!"

Well, NO I don't "MUST" feel anything! I'm not built to feel things everyone else seems to be able to feel. It doesn't make sense to me to "Feel" anything about political, religious or anything of a topical nature. They are TOPICS. I can give an intellectual response, but I DO NOT FEEL anything when I think about them.

Aspies start learning to "fake" a lot of things, as a survival method, to keep others from bugging the hell out of them. Feelings though, for some of us, are NOT something we can fake. Faking and pretending to be normal (a phrase you will hear a lot about Aspies), is stressful in itself. When you are constantly stressing yourself out and then run into something you CAN'T fake, yet feel as though you are being pressured to fake it, it can feel like you are being forced into a cave crevice where you don't fit. And let me tell you, it FEELS just like that! It's as if you are pressured from all sides, and there is no escape. Panic may ensue. Some Aspies might cry, others might become very angry and even violent. Some will just shut down and quit responding, as if they are ignoring you. The worst thing you can do in that situation is hammer them with questions. "Why won't you talk to me?" "Please answer me, I'm TALKING to you! This is RUDE!" The fact is, it's not rudeness. It's a defense mechanism. If fact, they probably think YOU are being rude!

I'm seeing the same thing in all three of my Aspie boys. Each of them is a bit different in what they can feel, but they are all the same in that they all have limited ability to feel emotions. There are methods that attempt to teach them to identify subtle feelings, but I have seen in all three of them, and myself, that the methods DO NOT really work for me and my kids. We've all learned to fake our way through the tests, where we look at pictures and identify the feelings the faces are showing, but in real life and practice, we don't see them at all.

I've found the only really good way to deal with my kids if they say they aren't feeling anything, is to believe them. None of them have any problem admitting strong and obvious feelings that show, if they are in the mood to talk about it. But if they aren't in the mood, the same rule applies. If they say, "I don't know," they either don't feel anything, or they just don't want to talk about it. I will sometimes ask them which is the case. "Do you not feel anything, or do you just not want to talk about it right now?"

Whatever their answer is, I've learned to respect it. Pressing them for an answer when there either isn't one, or they don't want to discuss it, is just asking for trouble and a probable meltdown. It's just not worth it.

My heart goes out to you, I have felt the guilt of realizing that I was doing pretty much the opposite of what I should have been doing for my son. It sounds like you are on the right track now and beleive me, as soon as you start to identify some of those things that are causing the meltdowns and learn to have different expectations (eye contact for example or saying hello/goodbye), things will improve. Your son obviously has many talents that will take him far in life. He may still stumble with mundane stuff that us NTs don't perceive as challenges but those are the things you can learn to help him get through or just plain get around!