The word "have to"

Post Reply New Topic

I'm pleased by how this thread is turning out. It looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the use of "have to" by parents is confusing, absurd, and oftentimes, dishonest. It's no different than a CEO saying "I'm going to have to outsource the manufacturing division." Yes, he has reasoning behind outsourcing, but he doesn't have to to it, since he's initiating the whole idea. Anyway, I have some responses to individual posts I received.

@Jeyradan
You said something I was trying to point out in my original post, but couldn't verbalize it properly. Parents saying they have to do something is, ultimately, deceitful. If nature and society decided that parents are going wield all the power and children are going submit to their will, the least parents can do is be honest. It's normal for parents to enjoy their power over their kids, but they need to be honest about it. After all, being honest is what all good parents teach. Like with the CEO who outsources jobs, kids are smart enough to know that parents choose to do things (except working and paying bills), rather than have to do them.

@willaful
You're completely right. The phrase "it's going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you" is downright laughable. Going back to the main idea behind the initial post, why would a parent choose to do something that hurts more than being punished? Seriously: aspie children, who are smart enough to see past the common cliches, will know that it's meaningless.

@Bombaloo
I'm glad my posts are helping aspie children feel happier about his life. It may be too late for me, but not for the current generation of aspie kids. Still, parents' obligations come from themselves, rather than some outside force, so the phrase "have to" still doesn't fit.

@DW_a_mom
I don't know if writing threads like these is actually resolving my childhood issues, but it's exponentially more helpful than talking about "feelings" to a therapist, which I was forced to do a few times during my early teens. I enjoy a sense of ownership (albeit anonymous) I get from writing a series that gets attributed to me. Come to think of it, I also have a problem with the phrase "I understand", but let's all save that discussion for the next thread in the "The Word" series. (Sneak preview: my comeback to it would be "if you understand, why are you still doing it to me?".)

Hope my take on the common parenting phrases are helping. Carry on.

I think this is a great thread and while I definitely felt a bit defensive at the 3rd person wording 'parents are doing this because... and are being dishonest and absurd' being that there are many parents here and many who may use wording like 'have to' I actually really enjoy discussions like this and have them often with my mother and my sister who is an early childhood teacher, I try to adjust my parenting accordingly if I think what I'm being told will benefit my children and makes more sense.

The way I use 'have to' makes logical sense to me, because I don't actually WANT to, but as a parent, feel I have to to raise well rounded children. That said, I understand where YOU are coming from, and will be more aware of what I'm saying and why in future.

Looking forward to more 'the word' posts from you!

Helping parents be better parents, one Aspie at a time!

I hate to pick nits as there were a lot of good things in this post but I really take exception to this statement. I do not enjoy having power over my kids. I love them with all my heart and I want them to be happy and healthy. I don't, and I don't think most parents, make rules just so that they can have power over someone. We make rules because life needs to have some order and predictability. Children need to learn this order from somewhere and if parents don't teach it then they will pick it up somewhere else. While I have unfortunately met some parents whose children would be better off learning life's lessons from others, I don't believe that is the case with parents here at WP.
All that aside, I'll still keep examining how I communicate with my kids about rules and consequences and the like!

We've actually gone round and round with Aspie1 on that, already. Quite a while ago. It seems that HIS parents certainly acted liked they enjoyed their power. How much is perception and how much is truth, it is hard to know, but he definitely left his childhood feeling that very strongly, and as we like to say, all feelings are valid. I do think it may be the truth for some parents and/or in some situations but, Aspie1, it would be good if you could at least drop the absolutist terminology. It really bothers those of us who feel we've given up a lot to raise our children, and have often submersed our own desires for the sake of making the kids happy.

Understandable. Still, I had to bring up the power topic to point out the confusion being the "have to" statement. In this thread, "power" refers to being free to choose. With the rephrasing, would it make more sense to say that adults enjoy the freedom to choose what to in their daily lives? In case of parenting, decisions to give punishments or stop unhealthy activities come from one's own sense of responsibility, but it's still a choice. Hence, the power.

With all that said, my opinion still stands. The only thing I can do is limit its discussion.

I've got to find you this recent "Zits" comic, right on topic. Most parents so do NOT feel they are free to choose on much. But ... I understand it is all relative, and from our previous discussion I understand why you perceive things as you do. I'll try to remember to find that comic later; my daughter is calling me.

There you go. Since that last post I have NOT been in control of my time, and I'm off again now to help them fall asleep.

But I think you are making a false set of assumptions about parents - the first being that parent are as free as adults with no dependents. We are not. Keep in mind that if we don't take care of our children - including teaching them about their responsibilities in society - we can face serious legal consequences. While I doubt that is the intent of the statement, "have to" does play a legitimate role when viewed in this context.

My AS and the bad communication skills that come with it must be more severe than I thought, because my posts constantly get misinterpreted. Of course I know that parents have legal obligations to properly raise kids. I was talking about being free to choose things like what to eat, when to go to bed, and how much TV to watch. As an adult, you choose these things, but as a child, you do not. I should probably step down from this thread, because it's getting increasingly frustrating to clarify what I wrote. I guess the word "power" is more loaded than I thought.

Well, let's not forget that I (and probably other parents) may well have features of autism, including bad communication skills.

I'm not sure I am able to clarify at this moment, but my point is that parents have less freedom than you might think. While all the consequences may not be legal, there are definite consequences for parents' actions and choices.

if i say to my child, "continue doing that and i will have to punish you", then the choice is ultimately NOT mine. the choice, and therefore the power, is that of the CHILD. i WILL have to punish as i have stated, and it is the child who chooses the actions and determines whether or not the punishment occurs. as i see it, "have to" is completely accurate.

this isnt about exercising power, its about teaching children to follow the rules AND to accept the consequences for their actions. if we do NOT follow through with the punishment, than that teaches there are no consequences to breaking the rules. a child who learns there are no consequences is a child who will grow up believing they have the right to do whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want.

this morning i told my son that if he didnt get his teachers to sign his school planner today, a rule he knows he is expected to follow and hasnt been following for a month, he will not get to play video games tonight. i HAVE to follow up on that, i HAVE to punish him if he doesnt follow the rules. and the choice is completely his whether he follows the rule or not, and therefore the choice is his whether he gets the punishment or not. i certainly wont enjoy the punishment, i dont like a whiny mopey teenager wallowing in his own self pity in my living room all evening because he cant play video games. but he makes the choice, and i have to follow through.

i will admit to having an issue with the overt negative stereotyping of parents in this series of threads, which i probably made clear in an earlier post. its why i hadnt participated in this one before now or the upset/disappointed one. its like i tell my SO, you cant state your opinion as fact, beat someone about the head with it, and then honestly expect them to change their beliefs to fit yours. all that does is alienate them and entrench them deeper into their own beliefs. likewise, you cant enter a PARENTS forum, belittle all parents, and then expect open and honest discussion with the same people you just maligned. while some people may overlook the negative comments and share openly, others will just become defensive and fight against you, which will change neither their beliefs nor parenting methods.

There is a lot of history here, and I like to focus on how far Aspie1 has come. Sure, there is an ax to grind from his own childhood, but he's learned to do that in a way that gives us a challenging look at some specific habits, while limiting the negative inferences. Paying attention to how so many little things were perceived by him will help us raise children less likely to be burdened as adults by the lingering anger he feels. This is a poster that used to just make us mad; now he makes us think. HUGE difference. And I've learned a lot from these threads. But, it is easier for me, maybe, because I know the history. I appreciate that he never gave up trying to figure out how to talk to us. That would have been the easy thing to do.

I found the Zits comic I was thinking of:

http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/13/1322/132294.gif

Everyone has choices, and everyone has restrictions on those choices. Even a child facing a consequence for misbehaving has a choice: break the rule and risk the consequence, or don't break the rule and avoid the consequence.

Adult life isn't that difference. So many things you see as a parents choice aren't really choices at all. Can I really make the choice to allow my children to eat whatever they want, when they want? No. (a) They may make bad choices that will make them sick; negative consequence that I am aware of, but they are not. (b) They may choose something the other sibling will not eat, and while the easy solution may seem to be "get them all what they want," it isn't so easy to me, who has to prepare all those separate meals and also is aware that what they want at 4:00 often isn't what they want at 5:00 so why the heck would I run ragged trying to meet those desires? They don't cook for themselves or clean for themselves, so if I make the choice to keep my sanity and prepare meals that make things as easy as possible for me, is that really a choice? In my eyes, its survival.

My kids control the TV remote. I don't even know how to operate it. All we do is make sure they choose their TV time wisely (as I've recently been able to prove to my daughter, she is actually LESS happy if she watches non-stop), stay away from inappropriate programming (for which they are grateful - the few times we haven't done that well we get a round of, "why did you let us watch THAT?!"), and adapt to each other (my AS prefers that the thing be OFF at all times). Was it my choice to concede that level of control? I suppose. But it hasn't felt much like a choice. If I want to watch the programming that I prefer, I have to (a) be concerned that it often is not appropriate content for the kids and (b) that they'll get the agitation of TV while whining the whole time about how awful my show is. As a kid we all watched what my dad wanted to watch, but honestly its not like he wasn't thinking at all about what we would enjoy; outside of the sci fi that gave me nightmares, he actually picked very family friendly. Perhaps it was just his way of making himself the bad guy, instead of my siblings or my mom. Or he just didn't have the patience for watching us all fight it out

Every parental choice comes with options that the equivalent of a negative consequence to a child. Which means ... they don't feel like choices at all.

FYI, I do think the concept of power is a huge touch point. The parents here live pretty well exhausted, and run ragged trying to meet the needs of their kids. Some of our parents are getting maybe 5 hours of sleep at night. There is no time or room in that formula to feel powerful, or enjoy it. No one wants to hear about their perceived power when they are so overwhelmed with responsibility that they feel guilty going to bed at midnight instead of 2 am. Just ... try to accept that there is a dynamic you haven't lived yet, and be sensitive to it. It is probably better to keep the talk about power to yourself. Or saved for threads specific to that topic.

I totally appreciate what you've done on this board recently. OK, I may be regretting getting that cat for my daughter now that the cat has gotten in the habit of peeing on our beds, but the pet has still brought a sense of confidence to my daughter that she very much needed, and I can even see the dynamic of power that you mentioned in your pets letter. So, you are making some really good points. Don't let the fact that there are still some touchy bridges left deter you. You can and will learn to deal with them.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 20 Oct 2010, 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

I think the have to implies that the child is actually dictating the responses of the parent.
If the rules set by the parent, sometimes by law, are broken by the the child...as a resonce to that breakage the parent percieves that the child is forcing them to make desisions they dont want to make to keep order.

i can appreciate personal growth in anyone, altho i havent been here long enough to see it in this case. i said what i did because its simply true. you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar (ok to be perfectly literal, no you dont, you catch more with apple cider vinegar, but the gist of the expression is true). to belittle your audience and then try to engage them in discussion is not very effective. and i can see that aspie1 is trying to generate discussion, and it would be more effective if the message was not tainted.

yesterday i got up at 6:45 after 5 hours sleep, got all 3 kids ready for school and dropped off and went to one school for an iep mtg. after that i went straight to work and spent 9 hours without a single break at my full time job, and in my spare quiet moments at work i completed some of the online course i am doing to get my real estate license. stayed an extra 1 1/2 hours late at work to complete something, then drug myself home at 6:30 to eat my now cold dinner. i spent an hour cleaning, gave the kids a bath, and finally crawled into bed sick and exhausted at 9pm, with my youngest child smashed against my back because thats the only way he can get to sleep. i had a restless nights sleep with knees in my spine or feet in my face before crawling out of bed still exhausted this morning at 6:45.

i think a lot of parents here have days like mine. we drag ourselves through the day doing what we HAVE TO do to support our families, we drag ourselves to school meetings to fight for what our kids need. we cook, clean, help with homework, give baths, go to dr appts, etc. we dont have TIME to lord power over anyone. and at the end of the day when weve done all that, and maybe we skip sleep and stay up later than we should just to try to decompress and come to the parenting forum for a little support, it would be nice to be able to do so without feeling insulted and portrayed as power mongers.

i actually like and appreciate the discussion on how our words are portrayed. i think a lot of parents get so busy we forget that little people dont always have the same frame of reference or interpretation for things we say, or we dont feel we have time to stop and analyze and think of a better way to say something. but i think its also important while we are discussing how words are received, to be cognizant of how our own words are being perceived. the method of delivery is as important as the message if you want your audience to listen.

The omitted part of the sentence is "In order to get you to do what I want...."

Example: In order to get you to do what I want, I'm going to have to turn the TV off.