why so stubborn?

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CHange is often stressful because it requires making new mental constructs on how to handle a situation. I try to keep some parts of my life the same with room for improvisation at other times.

I doubt it is an argument for him/her...he/she just wants to be heard and make sure all the details needed are there so that he/she knows the best way to act in the situation. Aspergians are always idealists, keep that in mind.

he is now medicated, and yes there are days when he is quite helpful and agreeable, but those are rare. He can still argue a point like no one else I know. Funny...EVERYONE who spends time with him tells me he will be a lawyer one day. YES, he can argue a point and turn any situation into the way he wants it to be or you to see it. Maybe a good lawyer one day, who knows.

i am telling you, this kid can twist anything to make you see his point. And the way he does it, he is RIGHT! I do hope he pust that talent to good use as an adult...lol.

This might be helpful for you to know how your daughter perceives the world:
Let's say that you come home one day to find all the furniture and all the stuff in your house totally rearranged by strangers while you were gone. Your reaction would probably be negative, and the intrusion and changes would probably generate very uncomfortable feelings in your mind. For your daughter, any small deviation from her idiosyncratic One True Way feels like what you might feel if your home were suddenly and completely rearranged by strangers, so her behavioral reactions are going to match her strong feelings. The autistic brain tends to perceive all the small details of a set of physical stimuli all at once, so anything different is noticed right away. The autistic brain also tends to glom onto specific sets of physical stimuli as particularly desirable far above all others, like a hyper-response to one thing. You might love XYZ, but your daughter might love love love love love love love XYZ. So in this context of internal eggsperience, your daughter's behaviors might make some sense.

I think that your daughter's behaviors are within the range of normal autistic behaviors, without OCD. At four years old, she is not able to manage these bad feelings associated with deviations from her One True Way, and she can only respond as her feelings drive her to respond. As she grows up, she will learn that she cannot impose her One True Way onto others, and she will learn to make compromise. It is fair for her and you to make 50-50 compromises, not 99-1 as are thought by some people to be ideal, with the goal of converting the autistic child into an NT child. So when she is little, you might have to make her-10-you-90 compromises, but as she gets older, you should increase her portion until it reaches 50-50 with you and her family. When she is an adult living on her own in the outside world, she will probably have to make 75-25 to 90-10 compromises to deal with the large majority that is not as understanding as the people close to her. When she is alone, she will probably have to recharge back to 25-75 to 10-90 just to maintain some kind of balance. Otherwise, life would be too stressful, and functioning would drop.

One thing that doesn't seem to have been discussed much, that I noticed with my son, is that the need to be in control increases in direct proportion to the amount of stress factors in the child's life at the moment. It is as if they need to feel in control of an out of control world, so they grab onto the things they can as a manner trying to achieve that. Really pay attention to her stress levels, obvious and less obvious, and try to mitigate the overload she may be experiencing.

And ... it could also be a phase. Typical young child stuff. Hard to know, but you can't go wrong trying to conform the world a little to their needs, just so they feel more comfortable in it.

For the Original Poster.
Our kid also has/had similar behaviour. Raeding about OCPD put the things in a perpective for us. Please serach web for OCPD and read a few articles.
Hope I am not breaking any rules by psoting the link below, the one that seemed quite informative to us.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Obse ... order.html

I have a little controlling person here. He just turned 5. He has his own set of "rules" - how I count when I swing him, what color cup/plate/spoon he has, missing something that someone else saw out the car window (or fireworks - that was a fun night). Wearing a certain pair of shoes (even if it takes a really long time to find them, not wanting to leave the house without one particular (but not always the same) toy. In our house, I mostly accommodate for it when we can. Being strict and rigid causes nothing but a meltdown.

That's a hard age for emotional regulation too and that's only compounded by the ASD. This was one of my primary concerns having this second child evaluated - his emotional regulation was getting worse as he got older instead of better. He has two settings - good and meltdown. His older Aspie brother internalizes when he melts down and resorts to self injurious behavior. Younger child externalizes everything and hits/kicks other people. I knew that if he went to a typical pre-K, if he behaved like that he would be kicked out or labled as a problem.

I have noticed a great deal of improvement since my guy started pre-K. He's in a dedicated ASD classroom, with teachers who understand. Just the structure alone is a great thing - with an older brother in school his days were already pretty structured, but now it is even more so. No meltdown at school yet - but we're only a few weeks in. Even meltdowns at home have dropper considerably - down to just a few each week instead of dozens.

I remember being that age - I was one of those kids who would only eat sandwiches that were cut a certain way (triangles, please), could not stand the feel of socks, would not eat food if it were touching other food. Even if things were corrected it didn't matter - I was shut down until I recovered. Even with my own understanding and having some of these same traits, it is very tiring, but it does seem to get better.

I agree with btbnnyr about pressing those compromises too and gradually expecting more flexibility- our guy has developed much more flexibility as he's gotten a little older (even just from 5-6 months ago). Since one of his rules is how I count while swinging him (have to count to 3, not to fast, not to slow......) I asked him one day, why I had to do it a certain way. His original answer was, "Because that's just the way you have to do it!" The last time I asked, he said, "Well, you you don't *always* have to count to three. This time you can count to 20."

Now I just ask where he would like me to count. I've tried to push the, "If you don't tell me, how can I know?" angle on some things too, with the explicit reminder that I can't read his mind and if he doesn't tell me before I do something, than I don't know. Also explaining things like not being able to rewind fire works or uncut a sandwich/re-shell a hard boiled egg have made a difference too.

I have AS and am probably one of the most stubborn people you will ever meet in your life when I make up my mind that something is a certain way. There are lots of things that I'm very laid back on, but stubbornness is a trait, for sure.

I don't really know what to tell you, I have four NT kids, but I outstubborned them when they started showing stubbornness. Of course if it wasn't something that meant that much to me, I let it go.

_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com

Everyone is pretty much 'right on' with what they are saying.

My son is pretty rigid in his expectations. It helped A LOT when I stopped seeing him as just stubborn and started seeing that these things were really important to him and the way his brain works. So, we have negotiables and non-negotiables. It is not negotiable to brush/not brush his teeth. It is negotiable which exact WAY he wants me to put on the toothpaste or which toothbrush he wants. Even if he wants me to park in a certain spot, fine. However, if it will cause the entire family hardship (spot he wants is far from the entrance and it's raining), we try to negotiate for 'next time'. Or if the favorite toothbrush is lost for the moment and mom isn't going to spend half an hour looking for it, we say 'sorry, no go'. If there's a meltdown, then we try not to take it personally, explain why, sympathize a lot (I'm so sorry, sweetheart), and let it go.

People tell me I'm stubborn, but in recent years I've realized that my parents are even more stubborn. Their stubbornness happens at a very deep level--it's not like they say no to everything, but rather that they aren't open to any of my ideas (about anything). They parent me based on their own selfish desires rather than my needs. There is no way a casual observer (or even most therapists) would be able to recognise this because in daily life I seem to be the stubborn one.

You have to realize how controlled she is, not just controlling. It's very acceptable to control childern.

My daughter is 13 and has been diagnosed with AS. She has a complete resistance to saying I love you, please, thank you, and I\'m sorry. Why is this? She also has the diagnosis of oppositional defiant disorder. She is very possessive of me (her mother) and doesn\'t want me in a relationship with anyone. Recently her dad and I got back together and she is the same with him. He has always been in her and our son\'s life but she can\'t stand him and I together. He isn\'t as used to her AS like I am. She would control her behaviors when with him on weekends or short visits but would unleash on me when she would get home. She loves her dog more than anything in this world and doesn\'t say she cares for humans but she will show care in her actions. She will threaten people and say she is going to kill them, wishes they would die and even recently threatened to kill herself and drank some mouthwash in an attempt to hurt herself. It was all over her dad and I being back together. If he hugs me she pries us apart, grabs my wrists really tight and pulls me away, or she will scream and threaten him if he doesn\'t get away from me. I tried to use her dog as a means to change this behavior. I took her to a therapist and they recommended hospitilization for the threats to others and herself. I don\'t want to do that ever. Mostly I have conformed to her control over me but with her dad back in the picture he has been trying to change that for me. I told her if she didn\'t stop with the out and out defiance and threats, I would take her dog away. She ended up crying and told me she was crying because she didn\'t want to have to kill mommy but now she has to. Does anyone have any advice for me? I want my child happy but I can\'t let her believe she can control her world this way. She has to be a functioning adult in society and she is currently home schooled because even with an IEP, there were so many calls from the school and threats of calling the police to get her to comply with staying in the building or not threatening staff. She doesn\'t see logic in anything I tell her to get her to understand that she can\'t behave these ways. She has her own set of logic and no fear of the consequences that she has experienced or been threatened with. She gets only angry.