How do I show them my Asperger's son is not being "Rude

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I agree. The OP said the post said they were working on rude behaviors. I don't see how that is calling the child rude, just the behaviors.

I agree this could be a logical interpretation of the note however, it is possible to refer to the behaviors with words that are not so emotionally charged as "Rude". You can work on "social skills" instead of "rude" behavior or try to address "unexpected" behavior instead of "unacceptable" or "inappropriate" behavior. As much as I know some folks really don't agree with the importance of "politically correct" language, I think the words we choose to use around kids really do matter. In this case, the student may or may not have ever seen that note, but if he did, how would that make him feel about himself? It obviously had a negative effect on the parent who saw it. There is more neutral language to use that avoids many negative connotations and I think it is reasonable to expect professionals to use such language.

The word rude is now politically incorrect?

I also think that in the hullaballoo about the word "rude" everybody is forgetting the unsaid but implied word "unintentional". It's implied because they are teaching him not to do it. He's going to a class and learning to use different behaviors etc. If it were intentional I would assume he would be going to the office.

I also think that something that would be very important to the child is being forgotten here. If the child is not taught that others think it's rude then he may not work as hard to correct the behavior. Adults tell kids all the time that things are inappropriate and unacceptable, and those are many times the very things that the kids find so hilarous among themselves. Like armpit farts. That doesn't mean a kid will stop doing it. That means a kid may stop doing it around adults. What may be perceived as rude by an adult may be perceived as the funniest thing ever to kids. However there are some things that are perceived as rude by other kids, and if the teacher is prohibited from saying the word rude because it might be too much for the child, then how do you think the child will react when the kid who he's just been unintentionally rude to says something to him a whole lot worse than "That's rude, people don't like that, lets try to do something else instead of that next time, ok?"

Pointing out to a kid that what he did was rude isn't a hurtful thing. Especially to a kid who the concept of rude doesn't come naturally to. It sure didn't come naturally to me. I would just keep doing whatever it was until my mother or grandmother pointed out to me exactly how obnoxious that particular behavior was. (Note: I am not calling the OP's child obnoxious. I'm not even calling any of his behaviors obnoxious. I'm telling you what I had to hear for it to finally sink in that oh, yeah, maybe it might upset somebody else if I do that) It also did not hurt my feelings to be told that. Looking back, I'm extremely grateful that I was told in no uncertain terms exactly how I was coming across, because otherwise I wouldn't have even been able to make the friends I eventually did make who helped me learn to socialize and interact with others.

I don't think overhearing the word rude said about themself would cause a child long term grief, but I think hearing things about themselves long term by the other kids and not having kids to hang around with will cause a bucketload.

I think its possible to teach our kids these lessons without using words like rude. Derogatory language is not necessary to get one's point across. I also think it could be damaging for kids to find out some of the things teacher's say when they think no one else is listening. Words can hurt, verbal bullying from a teacher is just as bad as from a student. There are other choices of language to use that could get the point across just as effectively. I would much prefer that the teachers tell my son that certain behaviors are unexpected and that those behaviors may make someone not want to be his friend than I would have them say "That's rude!"

So when my psychiatrist wrote saying I had very poor social skills and also my aid telling me in high school I really need to work on my social skills, it was their way of saying I am very rude and I need to work on not being rude?


I had no idea saying someone has poor social skills and that you are teaching them social skills is so PC. I just thought it was accurate. Someone has poor social skills so you teaching it to them to have appropriate ones so you say you are teaching them social skills.

I am finding out political correctness is a subjective word. Some people think not calling people stupid or any racial slurs is PC or calling them ret*d as a slur and I thought WTF? Fine if that is so PC, then everyone uses it then or else we would all be mean and nasty to each other and just imagine what the whole world be like, it be all nothing but bullying and beating other people up because being nice and respectful to people is so PC. Now saying "working on social skills" is PC?

So some PC is okay, I have a problem with it when I think it goes too far.

I have just been noticing for the past year that people find something PC I never thought it was. I read online that not using the word Christmas is PC because it might offend people who don't celebrate Christmas but I found out that was just an opinion, not a fact and it started with some place using the word family trees and someone made a big deal out of it or when stores started saying happy Holidays to greet all the holidays that year because it's easier than saying "Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwanzaa. Happy New Year." Happy Holidays is just a lazy way of saying that and the whole time people had me believe Happy Holidays was a PC greeting but no it was just their opinion, not a fact. People will say something is PC when it has nothing to do with it. I even thought Christmas was going away slowly because I thought it was being taken from us but I think that just came from places not putting up their decorations so people blamed it on PC. Plus I have noticed the malls don't seem as Christmassy like they were when I was a kid and some people online say things have gone PC so there are less decorations now. But that may just be an opinion. I remember when that one teacher changed the word from gay into another word while singing Deck the Halls, people said it was PC she was doing but I got told on here that teacher was just an idiot, it had nothing to do with PC. I would have never thought any of this was about PC if it weren't for the internet and people always tell me "don't believe everything you hear" and "don't believe everything you read online." But my problem is how do I know what not to believe? I may read something and I learn people actually have that opinion even though I don't agree with it but it doesn't mean I take it as a fact. I take it as a fact that some people have that opinion and that is a fact or are people pretending to have that opinion?
One of my online friends doesn't do Christmas but he still does the shopping but doesn't do the tree or the music or decorations because of bad memories. That doesn't mean he is being PC. I am sure some people may think he is being PVC by not putting up a tree and stuff when it has nothing to do with it. That is what I see with words too when people saying people are being PC with their choice of words.

We just put up a new roof and someone could say we were being PC because our roof was so ugly, we had to replace it so people won't be so bothered by the looks of it anymore. Uh no, it had nothing to do with that, the roof was bad and it needed to be replaced and we had to do it because it was part of the loan we got on the house and we had to fix the roof and it was the deal when we got the loan for the home. Plus if it didn't get fixed, it would have started leaking eventually and the pieces were coming off anyway. Just another example here of how that word can get thrown around for no reason. If people accused us of it, i would say "if keeping homes maintained is so PC, fine. That PC is a good thing or else homes be falling apart and they would always have to be torn down because it was too PC to be taking good care of them." So that is what I started doing with the word, everyone is PC or else everyone would be rude and nasty to each other and just imagine what the world be like?

I remember being told "That was very rude" "That is inappropriate behavior" "That isn't appropriate" "That's not nice" "That's mean" "That's disrespectful" and I did okay and turned out fine. As a matter of fact, all kids are told these things. But yet it's so rude to tell a grown up all these things but not to a child.

I am thinking that when a child is special needs, a parent then has an issue with these words being used on them. But I never liked the idea of autistic kids being coddled because mine sure didn't with me nor teachers so why should they? But then again I have seen many members on here with low self esteem and feel bad about themselves and say how misunderstood they were and how they don't want to bother with people. That is because back then no one know they had it so they didn't know how to tell them correctly so they understood so everyone just assumed they understood when they tell them those things and the aspie was left baffled because they didn't know what they did wrong. Okay so things would have probably been different if they were told things like "Standing too close to people is very rude" "It's rude to go around touching people without their permission" It's rude to touch strangers?" "What you did was very rude, you always say thank you after opening a present rather you liked it or not." They would have been told the specifics if people knew they had AS then.

But I have also seen members on here who know exactly why they get accused of being rude and all because of their ASD traits. They were either told the specifics or they just know.

Michelle Garcia Winters' (http://www.socialthinking.com/) approach to teaching autistic kids socials skills is a proven method that works and she specifically uses neutral language (alright my choice of using the "PC" term was out of context, what I really mean is neutral). Her reasoning for doing so is based on research and it is proven to work. Arguments like "well they never did that for me when I was a kid and I turned out fine" are not really all that relevant. That is what we call anecdotal evidence. Research is showing that we CAN teach kids social skills without using derogatory language. I don't expect that children's peers are going to use this kind of neutral language but I do expect professional adults to do so. And as with everything else involving the public schools and kids with disabilities, for the most part if parents don't hold the school to a high standard, no one else is going to. Its a pretty quick step for a teacher or staff member to go from calling a child's behavior rude to calling the child rude and that is truly unacceptable coming from someone who should be trained to know better.

I think the bigger issue is - does the language used by the school imply that they aren't giving the child the appropriate supports.

If you tell an NT kid he is being "rude" and list the reasons, you assume he or she knows exactly what you are talking about, and expect him or her to stop being rude or expect punishment. This is a wildly inappropriate way to handle a child with AS, who may not even be aware something is a problem, much less whether or not they are doing it or how to stop. They need to be taught all of these things carefully.

So, I think the word "rude" could be used as a way to describe behaviors they are trying to teach the child about like people said above, or it could be a red flag that the school is working under a set of false assumptions about how to work with an AS child. As a parent, I'd want the school to clarify what they mean and what they are doing when they talk about "rude" behaviors.

Well I guess it's a wonder that I'm not too damaged to even dare speak to someone now that I'm grown.

Of course this is all anecdotal and no one who had letters behind their name was standing there watching and taking notes on it so they could publish their paper, but it took a harsh tone, a little louder than normal too, and for someone to tell me that what I was doing was obnoxious, or impudent, or something like that and for them to tell me to stop that (while pointing out what that was explicitly) because it annoyed/made mad/made sick to their stomach/ others who had to see/hear/feel it. Other things had been tried first. They did not work. This did. However, because it's only anecdotal, eh, just disregard it.

See, this kind of thing is why some adults with AS are pretty hesitant to post in this section. We here over and over "Oh, we want to hear from you! We want your input!" and then when we give it we are just told we are wrong. It's usually not even that we are told "Well, that worked for you, but I'm not sure about trying it with my child" which is a normal response because every child is different and every parent knows their child best.

I'm gonna go scoot on over to the other forums and talk to the other aspies who, oddly enough, are perfectly willing to accept what happened to someone else without having a professional opinion and probably a conference first.

I'm just fed up here.

Hmmmm

I would consider myself a very kind, caring, and compassionate parent. I don't mean that to toot my own horn. But when I compare myself to other parents I see, I feel like I tend to treat my kids with a lot more respect that a lot of other parents. I pretty much view life as one large teachable moment and I try my best to never let an opportunity go by to help my kids learn how to be more effective and successful in an environment that isn't always friendly to their neurology.

That being said, among the lessons that have helped them the most in terms of social awareness and functioning, are four words: rude, boring, annoying, and weird.

Yes. I have labeled my kids' behavior with those words. Right to their faces. Because, you see, it's what everyone else thinks and it got to the point that I felt that I needed to be straight with them: "Saying the same thing over and over again is annoying." "Stuffing asphalt in your pocket and showing it to random people is weird." "Talking about nothing but Pokemon for hours on end is boring." "Interrupting other people's conversations, no matter how bad you want to say something, is rude."

I would never say my kids are rude, boring, annoying or weird (well, OK, I call them weird, but we are all weird and proud of that), but I would say some of their behaviors are. Sometimes I think labeling them plainly helps because social rules are murky and confusing enough as it is. And while I love MWG's social learning stuff and use it with my daughter, I have to say that sometimes the neutral language is confusing to her. Because "unexpected" is not always bad, and "expected" is not always good. But "rude" is always bad, and "friendly" is always good.

I think what's important regarding the OP is whether or not the school is minimizing her kid's issues and just brushing them off as simple acts of rudeness that are under his control, or that others are perceiving him as rude and they are trying to teach him how to avoid that impression, ykwim?

I gotta empathize with the kid here. When I was 11, I had no idear about the concept of rudeness, so interrupting people when they were talking boring stuff was the most natural behavior in the world. I only learned later to zone out and think my thoughts in my head while other people were talking boring stuff.

I really do think it depends on the child. Some kids are more sensitive than others; Others probably do need more forthright language to get the point.

Schools should default to the more sensitive language because more likely than not they are not custom fitting the language for your individual child. They say things the same way, regardless. You can always compensate as a parent by rephrasing it in the way that best speaks to your child. You can't really undo offensive language, which does adversely effect some children.

My son parrots things in addition to being sensitive. If someone tells him he is rude, and he sees an adult doing what he did, you can be darn sure he will call that adult rude. He does not understand the double standard and would get into loads of trouble for this.

Sorry for the late post, I know it's already Feb. 2013. Anyway, I have the same issue with double standards. I am extremely introvert and don't talk to anyone outside of immediate family, so this only happens at home. There is NO way you'll call me something (e.g. rude) and not get called that same thing when you do the same thing. Call me rude for doing something and you can bet your butt you'll get called rude by me.