newly diagnosed 12 year old son

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There were a couple things I mentioned I think she should just "let go" for the time being, yes. Other concerns that affect the entire family (garbage, dishes, etc) could be added into a chore list of some kind. If it's a sensory issue, I suggested dry-brushing. I'm not suggesting at all to "let these things go" .. there's a lot on her list

I guess maybe we disagree, then - I think it is perfectly OK for parents to set boundaries about appropriate physical contact with their own bodies and those of other people, depending on how well they can tolerate having a tween poke, prod and rub them. The question is how to do that in a way that works.

I do agree that prioritizing is in order, though. At the beginning, it is all about picking battles and finding work-arounds.

Really long list of issues you've brought up, so here is my number 1:

Pick your battles. One or two key issues at a time. Give each at least 3 months, and see if it is developing into a new habit. Some things you may end up concluding are too much work right now, that he doesn't seem to be getting them; at that point, you'll have to decide if you want to use a work around for now, or keep at the skill because it is super important in your mind.

For all the annoying sensory seeking behaviors, I suggest redirection. My son was a chewer, destroying his pencils and shirts. So, after consulting with several ASD adults, we told him he could chew on food or straws. When I saw him chew on something else, I just quietly showed up with a straw. Over time, he started to seek straws. Or carrots; those work for him, too. When he couldn't find straws he decided to chew his own tongue which is, well, weird, but in the world of pick your battles, we've let that one go.

Our goals were simple: he needed to learn to act appropriately in public, but once he was home most of the weird behaviors were allowed, as long as they stayed confined to himself (no rubbing someone else's nose!). At home he chews through straws, touches and fingers EVERYTHING, sits like a pretzel, and paces (figurative) holes in the floor. We used to try to stop those, but those are all self-calming in their own way. Give them a time and a place, redirect him from the most unacceptable ones, and then let it go.

I've found gentle reminders to be the most effective. If he is fingering something he shouldn't, I just put my hand over his. If he is chewing on something he shouldn't be, I just hand him a straw. And so on.

So, my son acts weird around us at home. But he is an honors student at school, about to be an Eagle Scout, capable of acting "normal" for weeks at a time when he travels with Scouts, participates in the school plays, etc. He is 16 and appears a little quirky to others, but not much else. He is horrible at house work and keeping the bathroom clean, still needs to be reminded to use deodorant every day, but he can cook dinner for the family if we ask and sets up all our computers. Alright, so he does things like move objects from where they belong to some other part of the house without ever realizing it ... we learned to let that go. At this point in time, we just burst out laughing.

I think what you'll find with most ASD kids is that they are this impossible to understand mix of gifts and burdens. Things that should be easy, like turning off lights, may elude them, but things that hard may be instant for them. You learn to go with it, play to the strengths, and work around the weaknesses.

Thanks everybody! We've only had donuts once in two years! But there is diet pepsi here a lot - we manage it OK, I was mainly using it as an example of things he does that make sense now that he has an autism diagnosis. Same with the rubbing his nose on us and bumping into us and poking straws up our noses and getting loud and all that stuff that is sensory in nature and involves impulse control. Sensory integration disorder was his first diagnosis way back when he was 2 so I'm pretty familiar with that. The challenge at this age is getting him to do stuff that might help him. He has a hard time agreeing to do things that might help him because he resents that he might need or benefit from those things.

I have told him since the new diagnosis that there are things he can try to do - he is pretty upset about his diagnosis and he thought autism meant mentally challenged, so we've been doing a lot of stuff with that. He had already read some of Temple Grandin's Animals in Translation and watched the movie, and he's very impressed with her and he has made himself his own tight spaces, and I've explained and his counselor has explained that autism has nothing to do with intelligence per se, but that it's differences in sensory integration, communication, social skills... So since he really doesn't want to be seen as having issues, he's getting a bit motivated from me telling him things like "OK, poking straws up grandma's nose in a restaurant is one of the things you do that might tip people off that you have autism." He is always surprised. as it had not occurred to him that those behaviors might be viewed by others in that light, and he does try to act differently. We discuss what he might need in the moment - attention, affection either verbal or physical, the need to move around, whatever - and he's thinking about trying to tell us with words so we can help him meet his needs in a more acceptable manner. So far he will sometimes be able to stop the behavior but he's still unable to figure out what he needs or try something else instead. And he's really only motivated in public where people might see. He doesn't care at home if he rubs his butt on us because we already know he has autism... His words. Smart kid.

As for goal charts and rewards, I have a degree in psychology and I know how it's supposed to work but man it's hard with him! He earns computer time daily by going to karate class - well four days per week. He can earn points to be on the computer for extra time on Sundays by doing stuff throughout the week that we keep track of: brushing his teeth, taking a shower, and his daily chores which are feed and water the chickens and the cats. But most of the time he still won't. He earns five minutes for each point, so he could earn 5 points per day in theory. Even if it's the last day of the week and he hasn't earned much, he could earn five more points on that very last day, but he chooses not to. Then he tantrums when he can't be on the computer longer. Maybe we just need more time for it to sink in. We used to have it set up that he needs to have earned 18 points by the end of the week or he'd get no computer time, but when it got to the point that he didn't have enough time left in the week to earn 18 points he would just give up and not do anything for the rest of the week.

He has only ONCE in his entire life brushed his teeth without me telling him to, and that was when he had friends coming over and I had told him the night before that I'd keep them in the kitchen waiting until he brushed his teeth that morning if he didn't just get up and do it. That was about 1.5 years ago. Every other time I have to tell him more than once and most of the time he flat out says no. If we are just at home then he just doesn't get his point, but if we have to go somewhere he'll use not brushing his teeth as a reason to not go - he does eventually obey and do it, when I say we have to go wherever it is we are going and if he delays me I'll not let him have computer time. Same for showers except he's never taken a shower without the threat of losing something. (or bath, but he won't bathe anymore and will only do showers.) So it's very very very hard to motivate him for the self care.

So he can earn points, and he can lose a privilege for disobeying, but he doesn't really care. He can't seem to understand that he can influence the way things go. Well that's not true. He says he understands but he just doesn't care. He says when the time comes that he could have been on the computer or whatever but can't, he's mad that he made that choice, but in the moment he says he can't make himself care enough to change his behavior.

My plan was to take away points for each time I catch the TV and Wii left on. I don't care so much about lights I guess as they are compact fluorescents that don't cost much to run, but maybe to be consistent I should count them being left on too. I don't know. But he doesn't earn enough points for me to take any away. And I really wonder if he is actually able to remember to turn stuff off. Each day for the last four days he's told me as he was coming down the stairs "yes mom, I turned off the tv and the wii" and "yes, I did, for sure, you do not need to walk up and check." Then hours later I find that they were not turned off. He says somebody sneaks in the house and turns them on to get him in trouble, or he says he never told me that yes he had turned them off. I don't know how to tell if he's just making excuses or if he's really confused. His counselor and his psychiatrist have said that his memory does not function properly when he's upset and winds up not remembering the mean things he says or does, but they don't know what's going on with the incidents like these.

So here is what I'm going to try instead. I think. Each week he'll start out with a certain amount of points. He'll lose one for each time he does not brush teeth am, brush teeth pm, shower daily, feed/water cats daily, feed/water chickens daily, leaves on anything electronic (lights too? I'd have to give him 400 points to start with I guess, LOL.) Maybe when he sees his big huge stack of points he'll be excited (and I can use marbles in a jar or something visual but I'll have to lock them up because he will steal them and put them in his jar) and he'll be able to care about the pile diminishing in size over the course of the week... I won't use a glass jar because it might get thrown. Those are the things he's supposed to have been doing and losing/gaining points over for the last year or so, so maybe it's OK to add one more thing, like food garbage laying around.

We did used to have it that he had to brush his teeth and shower before we'd let him on the computer after karate, however he'd tantrum so much because he'd be so anxious to get on the computer and so excited about it... If he did brush his teeth it would be a quick swipe, and twice he stuck his head briefly under the faucet and tried to pass that off as a shower. He'd scream and run around the house totally freaked out that he might miss some time. And lots of times he did miss computer time all together from screaming and running around and not being able to calm down and arguing that he'd brush his teeth AFTER computer, or tomorrow, or that he already did and forgot to show us, or whatever... So now it's just go to karate, get on the computer. I'd like to think of a way to get those teeth brushed daily. He'd gladly miss swimming lessons, karate, art class, anything, if I said "we don't leave the house until you brush your teeth." He'd love that.

Well thanks all!

More on the sensory stuff... He's had a lot of OT and we do a lot at home. But sometimes he's very resistant to suggestions and doesn't want to try the stuff he used to use a lot when he was younger, like brushing, deep pressure, his weighted blanket, fidgets, etc. So far the "you might not want to do that in public" nudges are helping. But I have to watch for something I can say "wow, that was really great" about, because I could say "you might not want to do that in public" about maybe 17 behaviors in a row in a 5 minute period...

And it's not like just having no straws or whatever is going to help. That's just an example. Other restaurant behaviors: Food falling out of his mouth from chewing with it so open. Picking his nose. Laying down on the floor. Holding his fork so low that food is all over his hand also. Bending down so far that his hair is in his food. Constant "excuse me's" to the waitress to engage her in conversation. Kicking the underside of the table and the person across from him. Grabbing the last special item off somebody else's plate (a family member at least!) All sensory and impulse control stuff. These sorts of things actually feel to me like the easiest for me to handle. They are very obviously things that mean he's got a need that we haven't met.

But the other stuff, I don't know... Maybe he will never remember to turn stuff off, and me bringing it up and having it involved with points is just mean and pointless. I don't want to be mean and pointless. If it has a chance of getting better then I'd love to help facilitate that. But if it doesn't, no sense flogging a dead horse. But how do you know?

So I get the impression that you have the right tools, and you can get them to work sometimes, but you are doing so many things at once that the efficacy of those tools is diluted.

I think it's really, really a prioritizing issue. Pick TWO things you want to work on, work on them until you have success on a regular basis. Then pick TWO more things. Find ways to deflect the other stuff that's important but that you aren't working on (either do it for him, or ignore it, or find a satisfactory alternative)

Otherwise, you are "yelling" (that's how my son translates anything I say about things I want him to do) about every. single. thing. he. does, and he probably thinks it's futile. He needs some success.

Maybe I'm confused .. I wasn't suggesting to ignore those behaviours. In fact, appropriate physical contact would be the priority. I'll have to re-read what I wrote (can't remember) but I think I mentioned it possibly being a sensory issue and suggested dry-brushing. I didn't elaborate but yes, it should be dealt with.

I'd suggest that the rewards need to be closer in time to when the points are earned. For instance, earn points to spend on the computer the same day, not at the end if the week. Or he gets 10-15 min of computer time before leaving for school only if he brushes his teeth that morning, Having the rewards as close as possible to the point of performance is heavily emphasized for kids with ADHD, and many if not most ASD folks have ADHD or related executive function issues.



I think you're asking for trouble if he mainly loses points. Imagine your boss saying your salary is 100k, but I'm going to deduct money every day for anything you don't do perfectly. You'd very shortly be an anxiety filled wreck.

I agree. We use YouTube for this purpose - I subscribed to a huge number of edutainment channels that offer short videos (Minutephysics is one of my favorites) In the morning, if DS gets completely through his routine, he gets a video just before we go out the door (you can even make the video happen in the car if you have a portable device that can do it.

This might be totally off base but it sounds like he has a lot on his plate for a kid with his issues. Is there one of those activities that he likes the least? If so, maybe you could use what you just said to your advantage. Offer that if he regularly brushes his teeth everyday for two weeks (or something like that) he can drop an activity from his schedule. This type of thing has become the only negative reinforcement that we use, the removal of a non-preferred activity. The system of earning and losing points just created WAY too much drama and it didn't work. It is often more motivating for my DS to be allowed to NOT do something that he doesn't like very much than it is for him to be allowed extra time with a preferred activity. Plus, if this would be a motivating factor for your son. if you make the period long enough, he will have made brushing his teeth a habit and hopefully it would be much easier to maintain it once that habit is established. Just a thought!

Momsparky,
Wow, minutephysics is wonderful. Can you post you list of other sites???? Please?????

Perhaps simplify the points system, if he doesn't think he will hit 18 he might just give up trying. How about earning time for time spent? This is how we do it. Then they see a direct correlation between the time/behavior and the reward. Even if he only "earns" 15 minutes it will be a reward that he would want to build on for the coming week. If he doesn't even think he can hit the 18 he will give up trying. They reward has to be almost certain if they behavior is performed, if the reward is too difficult to obtain and or calculate he will give up in frustration. I was also a Psych major and spent major time in the rat lab working on reinforcement schedules. Modify your reinforcement until you get the desired behavior. Perhaps your expectations are too high. Focus on fewer things until you are getting them mastered and let go of all the rest, it seems like it is so complex it might be too hard for him to follow/be motivated by it. Good luck!

I think minutephysics is the best, followed by Vi Hart, but I'll post our entire list we have thus far on the ProSocial Media list http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt149954.html (I think it will be easier to find there.) Note: many of them are NOT shorts, so if you use them the way we do, you might have to check the time on the video.