Questions about homeschooling

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I see this behavior in my son. If I tell him something he knows already, he gets so irritated by me and lets me know he KNOWS this! It has been a struggle, just in everyday life, to get him to understand I am the parent and he is the child concept. Maybe it is partly due to my parenting, but I have to believe that the autism could play a part as well.

I have our parent/teacher conference today. I am a little nervous. So far, I haven't gotten any feedback that has surprised me so hoping it goes ok. He got his first report card last week, and the main areas he got a needs improvement was handwriting (which OT is working on with him) and behavioral/emotional maturity (which is no surprise). I really do hope he succeeds/thrives in this school and can stay there until 3rd grade (they only go up to 3rd grade). This weekend though he said to me he didn't have any friends. He said "they aren't used to me yet, and they don't like to be around me". It breaks my heart to hear this. I get nervous each day sending him off to school. I hope that he doesn't have any horrible behaviors and hope that he enjoys his day/has some positive interactions with the other kids. I am in a constant state of stress and worry. It's horrible.

There are two components here. Only one is Aspie. The larger component maybe found in what Mark Twain is to have said, "When I was 17, I couldn't believe how stupid my father was. When I was 21, I couldn't believe how much he had learned in four years."

The natural arrogance of youth maybe magnified by ASD but a child still has to be taught to be accountable for his behavior. If he does not gain control, he will not be able to function as an adult.

If your child was bullying another with his fists, you would take steps to correct it. If your child was bullying another with his words, you would take steps to correct it. If you do not take steps to stop your child from being cross with you, patronizing you, and seeing you as "inferior", you may be contributing to problems he will have with others.

It doesn't matter if you are Einstein or Forest Gump, you have to learn how to show common courtesy to to others. This should start in your own home. I understand that there will be a dynamic between mothers and ASD boys especially as they enter their teen years that is difficult for the mothers because they are not as well suited to confront and discipline as fathers.

The condition of ASD is a problem to be managed not a free pass. If there is not a father who is inclined to help instruct and correct his son, then maybe an uncle, grandfather, even coach can be found. ASD may provide some difficulties in life, but not as difficult as a life that is undisciplined.

http://thefatherlessgeneration.wordpres ... tatistics/

What would be the issue with a mother disciplining an ASD son? The reason that I ask is based on my own (anecdotal) evidence, it is usually parent and child of the same gender that tend to butt heads the most. (mothers and daughters and fathers and sons) Usually, (again in my own anecdotal experience) the child is more receptive to advice from the opposite gendered parent. Do you not find that to be the case?

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 29 Oct 2013, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am a mother to an ASD son. He finds fault with me quite often during the day. He only sees his perspective and can't understand that I may have a bigger picture in mind. I don't believe he tries to be disrespectful, but if he doesn't understand my position, he often screams at me. My NT girl does not do this. She accepts what she does not agree with or understand.

Timf, I don't know how I can teach my son to respect me when he thinks I am illogical when I am in fact logical.

Not everyone can be taught. However, most can be. In general you may want to consider various methods that increase in intensity.

1. The rational approach. Here you embark on the tedious process that could almost be called cross-examination. If you tell your son he is being disrespectful, he may deny it. In this case you have to say that it is not for him to judge if you should be hurt. He has to take your word that you have been hurt and he has to acknowledge his responsibility. It can sometimes be difficult to get past the acknowledgment phase. Once you obtain acknowledgment, you have to have obtain contrition such as an apology. This doesn't end disrespect, but it establishes a framework that can lead to it.

Note: You do not want to get sucked in to a situation where you are dancing to his tune. This can happen when you are requested to "prove" something. A disrespect event transcends whatever the topic was that initiated it. For example, a statement like, "You don't know anything about quantum mechanics" is disrespectful. However, the subject is no longer quantum mechanics but rather the contempt that was shown. You can say, "I might not know much about quantum mechanics, but I can recognize contempt when I see it. You have just shown me something dark in your heart. We are now switching to a much more important topic." It is at this point that you may get him to acknowledge his action and take responsibility for it.

2. The context approach. If your son cannot see that he has behavior he needs to be responsible for, you can start to use a little guilt by describing the situation from a little larger perspective. You can describe that you are one of the few people in the world that love him. In your home you have the responsibility for teaching and instructing him so that he can take control of his life with some success. The job is not only usually thankless, but you often have to endure contempt and even ridicule. You can tell him that you are sad because if he treats you (the person who loves him the most) with such contempt, what hope does he have of ever finding a happy life.

3. The penalty approach. The loss of a privilege such as computer or TV access for a day or a week can be surprisingly effective in getting people to control themselves.

4. The dressing down approach. This is usually best done by a father. This is the sort of talk a drill Sergeant has with a recruit who has failed to polish his boots to a satisfactory shine.

The key is that he has developed a habit of judging the "logic" of others and dismissing that which he does not accept. The solution is to get to the point where his perception of "illogic" does not end in dismissal, but in a questioning to determine the basis of his perception. If something seems illogical, he can ask for clarification, he is not allowed to pronounce judgment.

If you can't engage him in the process to modify his behavior, then you have to construct an environment that manages his behavior. This is similar to the difference between being a free man or an slave.

If you can get him to understand the hurtfulness of his comments, you can then work on a signaling system that communicates to him when this is occurring such as;

1. Hold the phone. Do you want to back up a little.
2. Did you mean to jab me with that last comment?
3. Ouch, that was a little rough.

A signaling system provides feedback that can be educational.

Holy cognition, timf! Have you thought about developing that, just a little bit, and publishing it??

No, I am not misusing sarcasm. That was pretty doggone smart.

Thanks for the heads-up about educational co-ops. Can one find these things by googling?? I have tried the local library and the YMCA (neighbor's suggestion) to no great avail. Actually the best contact I've made was incidental-- I was at the fair down in Beaver. Talking to the guy handing out information packets about watershed protection for the DEP, I said to my kids, "Cool, guys! Everybody take one-- we can do a week on watersheds in our school this summer!"

Fifteen minutes later, I was approached by a strange woman with a similar string of children. "Excuse me, did I hear you say that you homeschool?? I've been looking all over the place for homeschoolers. I want to try it with my kids, but..."

Had I been quicker on the uptake, I would have gotten her phone number and we might have had the start of something.

Buyer, all the academic co-ops I know are religious. I'm guessing you are not interested in those but let me know if I'm wrong.

Timf, thanks a million for your thoughtful instruction and explanations on teaching respect. I'm going to have to study it to make it to incorporate into our life. Perhaps I'll send a copy to the speech therapist so we can work on it together. That okay?

I don't really care if they're religious or not. Being religious in nature does not automatically exclude.

It raises some red flags-- before I trust them, I want to find out if they're even more heavily into conformity than the rest of society, even more prone to bully than the secular masses, and likely to treat me and my kid to the "beat the Devil out of you" experience.

Some are, some aren't. I can get along with Christians, provided that Christian means "follower of Christ" and not "high-and-mighty holier-than-thou judge of all life." I'll look into anything, hoping I find Christians and not Pharisees.

I just won't hold my breath.

As for teaching respect to ASD kids-- It IS hard. They have to actually respect you, because they will not respect your socially constructed position. ASD kids tend to take the idea that we are all of equal worth as humans waaaaaay too far.

I cannot tell you how much better my father and I got along once I moved out, got my own place and my own bills and my own life, and we actually were pretty close to being equals (and he was an ASD single father, who did not give too much of a crap for social standards and ran, insofar as it was practical, a pretty doggone egalitarian household).

I'm trying to teach my 6-year-old that all people deserve to be treated with respect (including Mom and Dad), because at SIX he already thinks that he has an inborn right to be an equal participant in conversation (regardless of whether it's "his" conversation or not).

I don't really want to teach, "I'm big and you're little. I'm strong and you're weak. I'm smart and you're dumb. I'm right and you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it." That pretty much is the way it is, but I really don't want to teach my kid something that I don't want to see him mirror someday.

^^^^^^This

Like most things there is a line. Right now, my son tends to default to trust and equality. (I know kids are not "supposed to" think they are equal to adults, but given how smart he is, it is actually a sign of how "respectful" he is that he doesn't think he is better than everyone else more often.)

Every now and again I play the "I own this computer, you don't so don't take it out of my hand when I am trying to teach you something" card or the like, and he gets that. He knows I am in charge and doesn't have issue with that on principle. We don't really come to crisis on it unless he is SURE he is right and I am wrong, (and sometimes this is true b/c of the nature of his very specialized special interests) or there is some compulsive need for him to do something that for whatever reason I cannot or choose not to allow.

As an adult, these power games are more akin to "You have to listen to your teacher/employer/boss even if they are dumber than you or there are natural consequences. He will also have to follow laws that may be unfair or dumb or there are natural consequences. That is the kind of stuff I need to and am trying to get him to internalize. That is compliance that means something to me, because it is intelligently-based. That is what he will need to know and understand going forward into the real world. To me, it isn't about shoving his nose into how more in charge I am all the time. I don't want him to be blindly compliant to anyone who presents as an authority figure, because often that can be very dangerous. By the time I teach it, it would be time to seriously question it and he would not know how. He is already at that age, frankly when it comes to all shorts of things.

Maybe I would feel different if he were a smart-mouth. That is not a skill-set he has right now. He is 8, and more emotionally immature than the standard 30% rule quoted here. Even then, I am planning on focusing more on natural consequences and less on the other stuff. In real life it is the natural consequences that get you.

Somewhere here, we were talking about "You think/I think" in dealing with ASD kids.

I'll look for it when I get some more keyboard time, but right now I really have got to get to work. It's going to be bad around here if I don't get busy.

But that was an interesting conversation, and I remember it working out well for Saint Alan and me. Works OK with my 12-year-old, too, even if I am pretty darn sure she's NT with bare hints of BAP tendencies.

I have a question for the parents on here. I am not a parent myself so maybe I really do not understand. Why isn't respect taught in a more proactive way. For example, if a child perceives an authority figure as dumb or illogical on something they may demonstrate disrespect and the parents may react.

Why don't parents take a more proactive approach by training the children in the way they should go and the proper reactions that show respect before conditions happen that allow for disrespect. Why not teach respect from the beginning instead of as an afterthought? I don't get it.

I look at it slightly different than you and I am not a parent so maybe I do not understand it. I look at choice as being tautological. He can choose to not to listen to anyone or anything and he can choose to not follow any laws. He can choose to do whatever he wants or not wants. Even by choosing not to choose he still chooses.

With this said, some choices he makes may have higher negative outcomes than others. IMHO, he needs to learn that all choices have consequences and to gather data, analyze and understand what these consequences are. He shouldn't look at negative consequences just for himself but for others as well. Even Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks made choices that had negative consequences for themselves. He will have to learn that every choice he makes has an associated consequence and cost.

To some of you: blind compliance and I smart, you dumb are extreme. It the cases when I have a broader perspective and no time to convince my ASD guy that we have trouble with.

To Cube: I work so very hard to be proactive. That's the whole point - he doesn't get it and therefore doesn't accept it. And it's not simple respect I am after. I know that when he knows how much he hurts me, he is very contrite. Our problems are more often obedience when he can't see the whole picture and not insisting his perspective is the only one etc.

To Buyer: Classical Conversations has been a tremendous support for our Aspie. It's not a full academic co-op until 7th grade so you really have to see what they do and what they don't cover. In my state there are Catholic academic co-ops as well. I know Classical is open to all faiths, but your experience will depend on the people in the group.

I don't know that it isn't being taught. I am not sure I understand the question. Respect can be taught in numerous ways. Respect, though generally, is earned, otherwise what you have is fear. I generally would like to think that I teach my son that there are reasons to respect me. Sometimes I am left with fear (consequences) but I prefer respect. When my son complies to avoid punishment that is a variation of fear vs. respect.

I don't teach general "respect" for all adults, because not all adults are intrinsically worthy of respect. If my son does not like an adult, there is always a good reason. He has liked adults he probably should not have, like his first grade teacher. Anytime he has been moved to dislike an adult, he has been right. I don't want him questioning that judgement.

How he shows respect is another matter. He has pragmatic speech issues and social issues that prevent him from expressing respect in expected ways. Language that has only social content seems pointless to him, and he doesn't readily absorb it. He yells when he is mad, he feels he deserves input on things that maybe he doesn't, etc.. We correct him,as these things happen. The closest he has ever gotten to mouthing off, is saying people are mean, which in his mind is truth not disrespect. Lack of eye contact is a big one that gets misinterpreted, too. So, in my mind there is a difference between having respect and being able to show it in society sanctioned ways.

I will admit that it is difficult to absorb something that does seem pointless.