Kindergartner attacked by POS aka "teacher".

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Why do so many parents complain about the lack of socialization, the rudeness, and disrespect of kids today? Looking at things like teen pregnancies I just don't see a positive outcome to the whole ideology. Maybe it is, I don't know.

Yet, they say we aspies lack social and communication skills when all I see on different boards is people cursing each other out, writing in sentence fragments, and lots of shorthand. All I see is perpetual adolescence.

Or those who don't give a poop about praise. DS doesn't care if people approve of his behavior, and usually doesn't notice if they disapprove, either.

I think Aristotle wrote about the decline in youth. I don't think kids are any worse, or people for that matter. If anything there are more rules about what one should not say than there once was. I think the Internet just enables us to "hear" what people say in ways one could not have before. The Internet also has the illusion of anonymity, so people feel freer to say the socially forbidden things they would not say in real life.

Sentence fragments and text-speech is a function of that technology. As bad as I type, I would be tempted to shorten my writing, too.

Kids were nasty back when I was a kid, too, and back then more people believed the BS that enduing bullies makes you stronger. You can look at the current thread on that topic, to see how untrue that is. It doesn't mean I think they are great now. I just don't think they were better, then.

Edited to add this link to the aforementioned thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt258919.html

I guess it has to do with, frankly, that this might be a big chunk of the root of the problem. People learn this sh***y social skills from each other. There's not a whole lot of difference between this woman and a second-rate middle-school bully picking on a littler kid. Even the words and the acts are the same. The only difference reflects even more poorly on the aggressor-- namely, that she is in a position of greater power, even more physically larger, and is old enough to be taken as an absolute authority (not to mention old enough to know better).

Where do adults who do this s**t come from?? I can see two places: 1) They were kids who did this s**t, and nobody taught them better. It worked then, so they fall back on it now. 2) They were kids that had this s**t done to them. Eventually they got tired of having it happen, and they fell into line (regardless of how many breakdowns they had along the way), and they're glad they did. Now they empathize with their former bullies, and have come to the conclusion that it is right and natural that kids who don't fall into line should be treated in such a way.

Yeah, I did a stint as one of the latter. Still have to fight it sometimes. I'm WINNING.

How do we protect our kids?? THAT is the $64,000 Question. Nobody knew when I was a kid, and nobody knows now. I'll tell you what I think, though.

1) We complain, vociferously, when something like this happens. We don't content ourselves with a slap on the wrist. We take the video to the principal, then to the school board, and if that doesn't work, we take it to parent meetings, Facebook, YouTube, and/or the six o'clock news.

2) If necessary, we take it to a lawyer. It may or may not be a criminal offense-- I guarantee you a civil case can be made of it. A civil case can be made of ANYTHING. Just use discretion-- don't become the bully, making civil cases out of things that are silly. And if you go that road, don't expect to send your kid to the same school next year. Why would you want to?? Even if you have to move heaven and earth and drive them, personally yourself, to a school that's no better in the next district over.

3) Painful and un-ideal as it may be, educate the kids. Grownups make mistakes. Sometimes grownups are evil. There are things they can do about it, sometimes-- like learning to toe the line and not attract attention-- but sometimes those things won't help, and you have to stand up and do something about it. Right now, Mommy and/or Daddy will be there to stand up and do something, but someday Mommy and Daddy won't be there, and they will have to stand up for themselves in a mature, adult, legal manner. Whatever they do, they shouldn't take someone else's pathology to heart, even if that someone does happen to be an elder, an authority figure, or a so-called better.

God knows I've had to face enough adult bullies in my time. That third lesson is one I really, profoundly wish I had learned younger. Like, younger than whenever I finally get it into my fool head, because at 36 it still ain't there yet.

YOU CAN'T KEEP IT FROM HAPPENING. YOU WANT TO, BUT YOU CAN'T.

Hopefully, with enough time and teaching and tolerance and compassion for others and all the rest of the stuff we keep talking about and fighting for, it will get better. But that day is, sadly, probably still going to be a few generations in coming (if global warming or culture war or some other extraneous factor doesn't put us back to a stage of human development where such niceties aren't even thought about first).

I didn't know Aristotle wrote on that. Hmmm interesting. No, don't shorten your writing. I like it.

Thanks Buyerbeware!

I am apparently in error. It was bugging me, so I looked it up. The quote I was thinking of was this one attributed incorrectly to Socrates:

...the mayor of Amsterdam attributed this observation to Socrates:
'The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in lace of
exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.' This
wisdom from the grave was subsequently reported in the New York Times
and reprinted widely. After Malcolm Forbes included Socrates's [sic]
words in a Forbes magazine editorial entitled 'Youth,' his research
staff went crazy trying to prove their authenticity. They contacted a
wide range of librarians, classicists, and other experts on Socrates.
None knew of any source for the passage. The researchers finally
called Amsterdam's mayor, Gijsbert van Hall. Van Hall said he'd seen
the lines by Socrates in a Dutch book whose title he could not recall.
There the search ended. 'We suspect,' Forbes's [sic] researchers
concluded, '. . . that Socrates never did make those cracks about
Athenian youth.'

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=398104

In any event, the notion that each generation is worse than the next is not a new one.

ASDMommy, I wish HisMom would respond to what we're talking about. I hope she responds. Let's say you're right about Aristotle and others complaining about this. Let's say they believe that with each generation kids are becoming more unsocialized, disrespectful and rude. Wouldn't it behoove them to re-examine the way children are socialized.

Hismom, you want an answer. Here is my answer. Question the methodology under which children are socialized. Question Authority and Question Society. Think for Yourself.

ASDMommy, what do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQq_XmhBTgg

Timothy Leary's primary message involves psychedelic chemistry experiments on the brain to accomplish the "chaos" and brain freedom he is talking about. I am wary of brain meds in general (even the legal/non recreational ones) primarily because I do not think we understand brain chemistry well enough to manage the side effects.

Based on my limited third-person knowledge psychedelics can have very unpredictable results, based on the particular dose, the particular person, and also, I believe, the mood of the user. I can't even imagine how little is known about the specific application to an autistic brain. I don't know how people as a whole would act if their brains were thrust into chaos. Some might just withdraw into a spacy, psychedelic kind of selfism. Some would be violent. Some would go insane, I think. I don't think it would result in the global village that Leary speaks of.

As far as the part about controlling your own brain, and questioning authority: Yeah, that makes sense, but I don't think in Leary's case it is easy to tease that part out of his overall message which includes psychedelics. I am not necessarily a big fan of general chaos, either. I do think without some kind of order there would be more of a "survival of the fittest" mode of operation than there is now. Think of any country beset by warlords, for the reason why.

I am also not really a big fan of getting one's morals from institutions, and I do think it is rife for abuse. However I also think that there is a large enough percentage of people who do not have internal moral compasses and need external rules/social pressure etc. to behave like decent human beings. Not all of them are as flagrant as the person on the video, but some of them would be worse.

At first I was thinking this was no big deal because I have seen a boy having his face grabbed by one of his relatives while she was talking to him because he was getting upset at his little cousin for getting in his way of him riding his bike. She took his chin and held it up towards her face as she spoke to him. But in the video it looked real bad and not what I saw with *Frankie. the teacher was far more aggressive.

Also I am confused about how does weight have anything to do with what the teacher did? As far as I know, weight is just weight and how does it affect how people act? It's not like a dog breed.

I do not think so either. When I was 18-19 I used marijuana and let's just say the effects were not that good on me. The side effects were to intense for me. Many people misconstrued what he was trying to get at. Many people who listened to him used drugs and went into hedonism with wreckless abandon. Psychedelic drugs was a means to an end and it was one way out of many possible ways. What he wanted was for us to use critical thinking with each other and to think for ourselves. He wanted to drop out of the old paradigm and not listen to it just because it claimed authority. If the authority made sense then listen to it but if it is illogical or detrimental then question it and create a better authority.

In programming, if one can decrease the run time of an algorithm then do so. This is what I believe he is saying and trying to get across. There were authors during the 19th century I believe who used opium to help enhance their creativity. It wasn't about getting high or being reckless it was about capturing the full essence of things. I believe Leary would expect us to challenge his ideas as well. To me, that is his primary message. Guess what? You did so with your son. You questioned the school authorities' assumptions, did not agree with them and went a different direction.



I agree with you for the most part. There were some Native American tribes who did peyote as part of their religion sometimes to gain wisdom from their animal spirits I believe. They controlled who used peyote and some of the members were not allowed to use it. For me, I would rather not. They definitely can't be used by children. They banned children from using them.



Psychedelics was supposed to be a support to an end not the end. Leary still wanted people to do constructive activity which was to question authority and build better systems and ideas. I believe this was his core message but core got stripped away and instead reckless, hedonistic abandon came about. This was not what he wanted. I'm with you, if we don't have to use psychedelics I say don't use them. There are other ways and one way is the Socratic method and having discussions which we are doing now.



IMHO, you need both the institutions and those on the outside to question them. No one is perfect and giving someone authority does not make people angels. Even the founding fathers accepted this. Even Ben Franklin said that it is our duty to question authority. IMHO, we don't need psychedelics to do it or any other drug. What we need in my opinion is to develop our critical thinking skills and we know nothing absolutely. You questioned the paradigm regarding your son and his school. I think Leary would commend you for that.

I agree with that.

What I'm confused by is why she is allowed to bring up irrelevant sidebars but yet she bashes our head in for doing the same. Why does this discrepancy exist?

It really should be understood that anyone involved with planning for and supporting the revolution was questioning authority in about the most dramatic and dangerous way possible.

The video reminded me of first grade when my teacher was an alcoholic who used to put duct tape over my mouth, hit me with a ruler and pick my up by my ears. I should not have watched, because these people really, really piss me off and it's useless rage.

I hope she never works with young children again.

Since she was only suspended for 10 days, she is going to be back at work before you can say "Jack Rob". Those poor kids !

Even if she is kept tabs on, bullies like this will prefer to move on. Quite likely, she will resign and move on to some other place where she can unleash her cruelty on an unsuspecting, equally vulnerable population. Nothing will stop her from doing that as no criminal charges are being pressed, which can show up in a background check and prevent her from working with children, the disabled, the medically & emotionally fragile, the elderly etc.