Embarrassing Public Behavior in HFA

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My son is soothed by sorting things... sometimes I've used that kind of activity as a way to actually help him calm down or get "unstuck".. especially when prefaced with a sort of "fib" on my part, e.g., "I really need you to put all of these in order." The combination of using his hands and his brain to order something is VERY useful in certain situations.

But I can see how in the situation you describe, it does sound, as others have suggested, more like a coping mechanism to avoid what others were HOPING he would be doing in that time (playing with others and following the established rules & structure). And I definitely have experienced that situation with my son where he "needs" to finish whatever thing he was working on before he can leave. And my son also does prefer to argue with me about it, rather than comply with my Mommy Directive. In those situations I now will firmly tell him "I'm not going to argue with you about it," and then repeat my request for him to stop and do what I'm asking him to do. If he continues to ignore me, then I will physically remove him. I don't feel I'm being "mean" because he knows full well what I'm asking him to do and I'm asking nicely, and he is choosing to ignore me because he feels uncomfortable not having "closure" on his activity. And I get it. I totally get that need. I experience that too. And some of that is a time-management issue, and it certainly may not be willful.

If you want to keep taking him there, I'd suggest you (or someone else, if you're not there throughout) give him countdown warnings-- "10 minutes until we leave", "5 minutes", etc... so that he's well aware of what's coming and that if he doesn't finish up his activity, then he's going to experience the discomfort of not being able to wrap it up himself.

If this isn't an option, then yeah maybe find a different place to go for social experiences, especially if you think he's not really getting anything out of this environment.

I will say, one of the best places I found for my son to grow socially, when he was younger, was, of all places, one of those McDonald's playgrounds... the ones they have indoors, with all of the disgusting tubes for the kids to crawl in. Those places are so gross and noisy and usually full of pretty poorly-behaved kids. But it was great for my son because it is NOT structured and there are no expectations, and it was a great place for him to "try out" social stuff and pretend-play without any negative consequences for doing things "wrong". And it helped desensitize him in a lot of sensory ways too. It's chaotic. He had a lot of fun. I also got compliments on his "good behavior", which is good to hear when everywhere else you just get complaints from people.

I think part of my embarrassment was due to the fact that the teacher didn't try to stop him from sorting (she told me so). I feel that if it had been any other kid, she would have. I guess I interpreted that as "your kid is too weird for me to deal with". So instead, she let him put his autism on show for everyone, and potentially poisoned his relationships with the other kids. I think really it was her intention to be kind (I've known her a long time and she is very nice) but I feel like she kind of let him make a fool of himself. If she had asked him to stop and he wouldn't, then fair enough. I wouldn't expect her to do more than that. I just wish she had tried.

Personally, I don't feel that sorting by itself is an embarrassing behavior; that is within the realm of what most people should be able to accept as simply, "different people are different." Visibly chewing your Boy Scout Neckerchief when you are 15 years old and standing in front of the whole troop waiting for your turn to give an important leadership talk (which my son has done) - THAT is embarrassing yourself in front of your peers. And yet somehow even that can be recovered from.

Have you considered having a talk with the teacher about it? If she feels your son is really embarrassing himself to the other kids or not? These things really depend on the environment kids have grown up in, and it is best not to assume. Kids can be horrid, or they can be wonderful, when it comes to differences. IMHO, we should choose to surround our families with kids that are being raised to be wonderful, whenever possible, and let go of our own worries.

I guess you have to know the environment. We go to a very quiet, structured, "neat" kind of church with all the children dressed up nicely. One fourth-grader spilling things all over the table in the middle of class is pretty disruptive and weird in that situation.



In sports, DS stuck his hand down the back of his pants and then put it in his mouth and sucked his fingers. In the middle of the field. In comparison to that, I guess the sorting is less of a problem.

Oh no!

Everything most definitely IS relative. You have to stay focused and only worry about the big stuff or you'll never survive.

My first thought reading the original post was that maybe you need a new church. Honestly, our church is the one place I feel like I am never judged for my son's behavior or my parenting. Everyone just knows that my son has quirks and don't think anything of it. They help me when my hands are full with our baby and I can't catch my son as he runs up the aisle during communion or is trying to wander out the doors for the millionth time. Maybe a structured, quiet, fussy chuch isn't a good place of spiritual growth for your son or you, if you are feeling judged. I say all that without judgement - we have searched high and low for a perfect church for our family and I know how hard that search is.

I think that is the kind of thing you have to tell her. She might just not be sure when to intercede and when not to. It is a touchy thing and I don't know if I would know where that line is for someone else's autistic kid, even though I have my own. I don't think a person who doesn't know your child well would know where the line is between let it go and save him from himself.

It can be very painful when you know your kid is acting differently and you can't stop people from judging. So aside from the social damage you have to worry about, there is the judgemental (or pitying) adults.

Agreed. I think this something you should talk to her about, if she doesn't have any experience with autism, she most likely doesn't know what to do. Maybe she was scared he'd flip out if she said no and didn't want to risk it, especially since she's not trained to deal with that (legitimate fear with some kids- dunno about yours). Also, lots of people seem to have the idea that you can't say "no" to a child with special needs, and if she's seeing your son as a child with special needs, she may feel that way. Like it's morally wrong or something to say no him.

If she's a volunteer, it probably means she's pretty keen to make a difference, so she'd probably be glad to have more guidance from you in terms of how to handle your son though.

I totally agree with this.

But also, how much are you hoping he will truly be able to "hold it together" ? From your own description (your kid: "disruptive and weird"; everyone else: "quiet, structured, "neat"), it doesn't really sound like the best fit. I know you are saying that from THEIR perspective, you FEAR that he will seem "disruptive and weird", but I also think you have to be honest with yourself. If he can't be quiet, structured, and neat, is that going to stress you out? I know I've been in that situation (where my expectations were unrealistic) and the truly bad thing is that you wind up conveying that stress onto your kid. Your own discomfort is not lost on them. The last thing you want is for your kid to feel that YOU are embarrassed by who he IS.

It's one thing if it truly is just "naughty behavior" and you need to discipline him. All parents have BTDT and nobody is going to judge you for that. (Well, okay, lots of people judge other parents all the time, but most parents are at least silently understanding.) But what you are describing sounds more like the environment is not the best for him right now.

I recently had to pull my son from an after-school chess club because he was melting down over relatively minor things and the teachers didn't know how to handle it (other than to call me so that I could come "deal with it") and the other kids were very confused by his behavior. This is a club that he has enjoyed a lot in the past and didn't have much trouble in before. Sure, he'd have times when the teacher had to put him in "time out" for talking out of turn too much or otherwise being too disruptive, but ALL the kids had their turns in "time out" (we are talking about a big room full of 1st and 2nd graders, free to run amok after a full day off school... LOTS of behavior issues.) I used to be SO TENSE taking him to that club, watching him like a hawk from the sidelines where I was pretending to do some "work" while I waited for him (really I was spying on him to make sure he behaved himself). And I'd get SO tense any time his "autism" would "show"... I didn't want anyone to think he was weird or make fun of him. And the thing I realized, was that ALL the kids had weird behaviors. ALL the kids had their turns of needing to be re-directed by the adults. But when you are so focused on your OWN kid, his behavior seems to be like this alarm going off. And when your kid also has "atypical" behaviors, it's even more so. Sometimes when I feel I'm being oversensitive about this stuff, I start focusing on someone *else's* kid... and I realize that those other kids do things that I'd be just as "horrified" by, and worried that other parents would be judging, etc etc... and the truth is, really not that many people are even paying attention. Sometimes they do, and even say stuff, but those people are usually a-holes. I had a whole army of those (a-hole parents who say things) in Kindergarten.

Oh but back to chess... the thing is, I did finally pull him, because he was UNHAPPY. For whatever reason, he just couldn't deal with the environment anymore. I kept trying for a while, in case it was just a bad week or two, but it wasn't. He was very stressed out and not having fun. So I pulled him, and reinforced both to him and to myself that it was not a big deal. (It's not a failure to stop doing something that is making you uncomfortable!!)

But is your son uncomfortable? Is he stressed out? I can't really tell from what you've said. It mostly sounds as though he's just not doing what the other kids are doing, and that's stressing YOU out. (And I do want to stress that I'm not judging you for that-- I have been there too.) And even if he's not doing what the other kids are doing, he may still be getting some benefit from being around the other kids, even if he's only engaging in "parallel play". When my son was in Kindergarten, the teachers were constantly panicking about the WAY my son played at recess. He was playing "wrong". He sat in the sandbox and played NEAR other kids, but not really WITH them. My attitude was, so what?!? Leave him alone. He's having fun. Stop expecting him to be like everyone else-- he's NOT like everyone else!! And even though it looked like he was being antisocial, I don't think HE saw it that way-- I think he was being as social as he felt comfortable with. And that meant being *near* other kids, but not necessarily engaging fully with them yet. And that's okay.

Does you son like going there?

I just wrote this in a different forum and then realized it completely explains my own behavior with my son.

^^This^^

Once my daughter understood this, many of her more "annoying" behaviors stopped. We used MIchelle Winner Garcia's work as a framework. Once she understood the concepts of "expected behavior" and "unexpected behavior" a light went on. For example, before she understood this, from her perspective, she was not doing any harm when she threw a temper tantrum after loosing a game. In her mind, as long as she threw objects, and not at people, and as long as she sobbed and yelled and kicked and screamed without saying anything mean to anyone or touching anyone, she didn't understand why it was not OK. She was not hurting anyone. And it made her feel better. Once she understood that this was unexpected behavior and that it caused people to feel uncomfortable and have thoughts about her (not positive ones), she understood why she couldn't do it. She still had the *urge* to tantrum when she lost, but she was better able to reign it in. Often times now when she persists in doing something that I don't want her to, I will ask if it is expected behavior or unexpected behavior. She says "unexpected" and she stops. Because it helps her remember that other people have feelings and thoughts about her and that her behavior influences those feeligns and thoughts. Without that reminder, her default perception is often that if she is not hurting anyone, then she should be able to do it, regardless of the consequences.

She is often oblivious to the thoughts and perceptions of others unless she is reminded. Or she assumes their thoughts and perceptions mirror her own, which is a big issue for many on the spectrum. I think that leads to a huge number of misunderstandings and I think it is a skill that we need to work very hard on with our kids (perspective taking), so I would not avoid the situation, nor would I just suffer through it without addressing it. These kinds of situations are wonderful teaching moments, even though they are pretty painful to live through.

That being said, I have been known to avoid quite a number of circumstances because I knew full well what was going to happen. It's OK on occasion. You just can't let it be the default, or even the "typical" response. But sometimes you just need a break and it can be very tiring to have your whole life (and your kid's) amount to a string of teachable moments.

If my parents were still alive, and I did that behavior, the drop my pants and beat the living daylights out of my in front of the entire congregation. The congregation would cheer as they did the deed. Back then, and even today, their mantra in regards to discipline was 1) spare the rod and spoil the child 2) children are meant to be seen and not heard and 3) you break a child's spirit in any way possible to make them conform to your, as well as the congregation's, as well as God's will.

Now you know why I never married or even want children. I'd be on death row for enforcing that kind of discipline.