The joy of being naughty

Post Reply New Topic

I also recommend reading The Explosive Child and Lost at School. While your son may not have the conversation skills yet to fully participate in Plan B, you can still use the method to come up with a list of problems that need solving and just work on a couple at a time. You can ask him yes/no questions and give him options for possible solutions.

Change is part of life. Will be let you read the social story about going away to him to help him deal with this if it's bothering him?

I'm not sure I completely understand the idea of the "joy of being naughty". I was following this thread trying to figure it out, but I'm still not sure. Disclaimer: I do not have a degree in psychology. In my total lack of education on the subject, I feel like people never just do things for no reason; there is always a motivating factor, and the key to controlling behaviour is to understand what it is. I think with autistic kids it can be harder to determine sometimes because it's not an external factor- it's something within their own mind, which you cannot remove. I think sometimes kids are naughty because they enjoy the reaction they get, whether it's because they get more attention, or if they are autistic, possibly they enjoy the more extreme facial expressions (my younger son really likes extreme facial expressions). But they don't just enjoy "being naughty" for no reason at all.

My first thought regarding the ripping of books was that he liked ripping paper for sensory reasons I guess. It might just be my super weird kids, but that would be where I'd go first. In a case like that, I'd provide an appropriate means to get that same feeling of ripping paper. My younger son rips books too, and it is twofold for him: (1) he enjoys ripping paper and (2) he enjoys seeing mummy be really expressive! He wants me to go "AHHH WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? STOP IT RIGHT NOW!! !! !" but not because he wants *me* to be angry, but because that reaction is pleasing to him separate from me as a person. That's my take on it anyway. He also went through a stage of pushing other kids over, and we determined that that was purely for the kids' reactions- he enjoyed watching their extreme reactions, but I think he separated their reaction from the person (so it wasn't as malicious and awful as it sounds, I think, I hope). Obviously I have no idea why your kid's doing it, but I don't think it would just be the joy of being naughty on its own, because what is that exactly? I think there is always a reason for it.

I remember being a boy and getting a thrill out of deliberatly doing something that was wrong.
Maybe the end goal was attention, who knows? But when me and my friends got together we would deliberately get up to mishchief. If something was not allowed then that imediately made that thing appealing! Now of course this didn't apply to all things and it was something we always did but I think there is a certain thrill in these acts of rebellion. It maybe more of a boy thing than a girl thing I don't know. But it was this thrill that I thought I could see in my son now. I see it in my youngest already there is a certain excitement in his eyes when he is deliberately defiant. Until these last few weeks I have not seen this in my eldest. But now it seems he deliberately and knowingly does naughty things and giggles as he does so. I know that he knows its wrong but there is something funny to him about bashing other kids (for example). Last night he was talking about bashing kid X at school tomorrow and was in absolute hysterics at the prospect. I told him that he should not and that it was wrong and he was just laughing manically saying "No I bash X".

Again this make him sound like a monster but I don't think he understands the pain it causes others. He just finds the whole thing hilarious and I'm sure part of this is the reaction he gets when he does it but part of it also seems to be this enjoyment of rebellion. That is what I meant by the joy of being naughty. I still remember that feeling when I was a boy and to a certain extent have it now. Its the same enjoyment / thrill when one breaks the rules of society and does something you are not supposed to. Its why sick jokes are funny sometimes because society says you are not allowed to laugh at that topic. Its part of why drugs are fun, the fact that they are illegal and it pisses off your parents makes drugs even more appealing. So perhaps its the joy of rebellion rather than the joy of being naughty. Or maybe I;m just weird and no one else feels that!

Probably it's common and normal to enjoy a bit of rebellion. I'm accused of breaking the rules so much when I'm trying to follow them there's no joy I can see.

But since he enjoys rebelling, can you get him to rebel in some way that doesn't hurt anyone or anything? I hope I won't be crucified for saying this but seems like cheating at a game would be a safer form of rebellion and a lot of kids like doing that to win with parents; though of course it's a problem if he cheats with peers.

This was what I was trying to say earlier.

Let me put it this way: if you don't "see" all but the most extreme nonverbal communication, you are living in kind of a vacuum, right? You have no idea what people think about you or what you are doing...so you might do things to elicit ANY kind of response.

DS, who is hyperverbal, does this: when he is freaked out, he will deliberately push our buttons until we are furious - he picks totally ridiculous fights (e.g. screaming "why can't I go to the movie RIGHT NOW" when he knows the theaters aren't open, etc.) until we lose it.

We have learned that it's kind of a calming thing for him, oddly, to make us mad: first, he feels in control of the interaction and second, he understands it. Don't get me wrong: I don't think it is totally conscious...he just needs feedback and ramps things up until he gets it. It's the same reasoning behind kids that are "class clowns," it's a way to control the interaction and make it predictable, even if it can be wildly inappropriate.

Now that we have that frame around DS's behavior, it makes it easier to manage - we can successfully not rise to the bait and stay calm and troubleshoot what the ACTUAL problem is that is making him feel a need for control.