WP wisdom strikes again!

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E was only recently diagnosed, and I immediately ran to Borders and bought out the section on AS. I was offended when I read in one of the books about all the ways to prevent a child from stimming. I have no idea where I got it, but I had always assumed it was necessary to the child's well-being.

E's school psychologist has talked about subsituting some stimming behaviors for others, when certain behaviors get distracting in the classroom. She wants E to have a koosh-ball to squish instead of letting him blow on his fingers. I'm still trying to figure out how another student playing with a toy is less distracting to first graders than a fellow student blowing on his fingers, but...

Does anyone know: can stim behaviors be substituted?

I do think that it's important for the "stimmer" to work on channeling that energy build up into more healthy venues. It will be difficult to get a job when one is twitching or blowing on fingers or spinning or twitching fingers in front of the face. More appropriate stimming can replace these other inappropriate ones. There are many ways to channel the energy other ways. For instance pacing is okay but vocal noises or blowing on fingers is a bit off-putting.

With high functioning AS or PDD-NOS kids/adults, we have to assume they have their intellect intact and are capable of achieving at high levels. I think this is an optimisitc viewpoint. Success does not include spinning in circles, making vocal noises etc. These are odd behaviors and will be noticed right off in someone who is otherwise very intelligent and doesn't appear to have Aspergers. Yet, if an executive or programmer is sitting in his/her office and pacing or sqishing a ball or using some gadget to let off steam or think or relax, this is not as stigmatizing but more acceptable. There is a man in my church who twitches quite a bit and I just assumed he had Tourettes Syndrome (I wouldn't have though AS). On the other hand, there is a young boy and he flicks his hands, smiiles all the time, shakes his head and he is clearly autistic. I believe he is lower functioning. I wouldn't say this fellow was AS.

A child that is six or seven or even eight-years old and wearing diapers does not sound like a child with Aspergers Syndrome. There are no delays in a child that has AS and this is clearly spelled out in the DSM. The child, if anything, is advanced in many ways, intellectually, but socially inept, awkward and has theory of mind issues. I really think it's important to distinguish between autism and aspergers. My reasoning is this--Too many times if a child isn't severely affected, stimming in public or displaying some real autistic behaviors, it is difficult to get services or attention for the child with Aspergers who appears normal with the exception of slight oddities and social ineptness due to theory of mind issues. With unusual perceptions, verbosity and intellectual prowess, they are assumed capable and most likely willfully defiant or oppositional.

My son has gone through this and it is frustrating. I've had to convince the school that he bites me when excited, mutters to himself, shakes his head and changes clips in his head and fixates on items/interests and this is his inattention at school. Kids with AS, I feel, have more self-awareness and so the desire to stim might be there, but they are more self-concious about it. The signs, contrary to what some of the posters have mentioned, in a child with AS, are more subtle. Therefore, I do think it would be easier to change the behavior of a child wiht AS due to their desire to connect with peers and fit into world. A child with autism, however, is not as aware nor does he/she have the inclination to change behavior in a public setting. That's not to say that a child with AS will never stim or engage in oddish behaviors in public. Just last night, my son was running his forehead against the strap seperating lines in a movie theater back and forth. I had to tap him on the shoulder. He will jump up and down or skip sideways (he looks to be ten so this attracts attention). AS individuals share the desire to retreat into oneself hence the autistic traits. But, I do think there has been an overlap, too much so, and Aspergers or more high functioning individuals are being ovelooked in the educational setting.
equinn

define "some conformity"

I'm not a parent, but I believe that autistic individuals should learn to be as high-functioning and self-reliant as possible. And I have a hard time believing that some of them are anywhere close to achieving that.

I think stimming can be just about anything. My son used to play his guitar the entire day. It was like an appendage and he carried it with him everywhere. Now, he's in CA and has written an album and is a gifted musician.

He told me, once, when he was ten or so that everyone is here for a purpose and our jobs our to find our purpose.

Stimming, then, should not be wasteful but energy channeled into artistic endeavors or an outlet that will return rewards and affect other people in a positive way. Maybe mindless stimming is a child that hasn't been given enough opportunity to find his/her purpose or gift and so the gift is waiting in the form of pent up energy or displaced energy. This is unhealthy and only serves to gratify the stimmer temporarily like some kind of a drug high/fix resulting in a sort of entropic decline.

equinn

Bold mine, as a synopsis of the two viewpoints. I'm really curious about the basis for each, because I certainly don't want to harm my son either by preventing him from stimming when he needs to, or by allowing him to engage in harmful behaviors. Of course, I can't really think of a behavior that would be both a socially acceptable "artistic endeavor" and available to my 6 year old during class and in other public places. Suggestions?

Nicurn, are his stims harmful, to himself or others?

If not, why change what works? (Of course, if it's merely annoying, such as my daughter's incessant repetition of the line, "It's Gina, b!tch!" from the movie Beauty Shop, some redirection might be in order...)

If they are, of course (such as my sister's habit of biting her own hand, fiercely, when overwhelmed - to the point that today she has a thick callus between the first and second knuckles of her left hand), redirection would be a very good idea. The trouble then is finding a safe behavior that gives the same relief. (I've come to use reading and meditation as "socially acceptable" stims, along with my old habit of knuckle-cracking.)

Ill give that a try.

I've never been diagnosed with Aspergers, but I'll be honest--I might have a few stims myself and I know for me it is time wasted, procratination, time away from something else I should be doing. I somtimes think my perseverating on a topic, such as ASD and Aspergers, is a form of stimming. Visiting this forum and a couple others consumes too much of my time lately. It is unhealthy in large degrees. I also know I have a novel and writing I should be working on and I'm not. It is more difficult to tackle the writing because it consumes me. So, here I am. I go into heavy duty daydreams as well. When I'm there, I'm nowhere to be found--my mind is elsewhere, far away. I can sit in front of the television for a whole movie and not have seen a thing. Again, I think this is my way of shutting down, turning off the world, retreating. If I lose myself in my writing, it is more endless absorption and more difficult, mentally. It is something I tend to avoid lately and in the past. Therefore, I do believe time wasted is what it is time wasted. You can stim in productive ways and accomoplish great work via creative inventions or products.

Does this clarify?

equinn

They're not, and what's more, some of them never will be. We've just got to face this fact.

Another interesting topic. I am going to write something here I never told anyone, but it is not too private.

My older brother has Tourette's, and was not diagnosed until he was in his twenties. He did not like people looking at him when he had tic episodes, which is something I understood. He had a lot of different tics and stims. My mother accepted it as something that was there and never talked about it. She was not particularly accepting of differences, it was just that she did not think about it too much. Perhaps it was denial or ignorance. Therefore, when I engaged in stimming, she said nothing. My sister may or may not have had mild Tourette's but she used to copy my brother's tics and my stimming behaviours. Both are adults with alcohol problems and my sister has had drug issues. I do not smoke, drink, or ingest drugs of any kind. It never occurred to me to abuse CNS stimulants in pill form or imbibe depressive organic elixers. Neither sibling has any children.

I am not sure if this helps fighting_mom. Others were much more eloquent and insightful in their comments.

NTs stim too; it's just not always obvious. My fiance rocks back and forth when he's excited. My best friend rubs a bedsheet between her thumb and forefinger. Some stims can be disruptive in a social/educational setting; encourage her to substitute less um, exuberant stims in public. Maybe get her a piece of soft cloth to rub between her fingers, like my friend does?

But when she's at home, let her go wild!

For me, I either pick at my lip or tap constantly. I once put a pretty big gouge in my lip the one time I was stressed out. Thats when I made an effort to stop. Of course I didn't stop, but I'm much more aware of doing it now. I still occasionally make my lip bleed, but in general I stop and give me lip a chance to heal before picking at it again


I do need constant movement. Staying still is pretty much impossible for me. It takes all of my concentration to not move, and even then its difficult. I believe it was an ekg I had to take the one time where I was required to lay still. It took an extra 2 hours because I couldn't be completely still - If i weren't moving my fingers, I was moving my toes. If I wasn't moving my toes, I was moving my eyes. If I wasn't moving my eyes I was moving my tongue. I can talk on a phone without pacing about. When I worked at one of the busiest dairy queens in the country, I constantly had something in my hands to play with in between customers - piece of tape, rubber band, paperclip, or more often a piece of cookie dough that I'd squish and reshape constantly. Even while I was socializing with the others.

In k-12 I had average to low grades, because the teachers required the pencils down, hands down, eyes on me routine, so rather than paying attention to whatever it was they were saying I was thinking, "Don't pick up the pencil, don't pick up the pencil, don't play with the notebook, don't tap, don't pick up the pencil..." In college the teachers didn't care, so I spent the entire class period tapping my pencil (on nb or hand to minimize noise) and drawing. I was valedictorian graduating with a 4.0 GPA/QPA

Thank you triangular trees. You are not only bright with a 4.0 gpa but very thorough and have clarified fo rme what a "stim" is.

Yet, I'm still confused. Maybe this is my stim--perpetual confusion and questioning. So, those leg shakers, nail biters, throat clearers, pen/pencil chewers are all stimmers? They don't all have autism, do they? No way. Maybe hyperactive people stim, too, as you mention to keep moving. Highly intelligent people need activity--people with GAD might also stim to avoid feeling anxious. Addicitive personalities--wow, the list goes on. Let' sjust say we are all neurotic and need to move to keep from falling off the planet. Even mother earth is in perpetual movement.

I need to write. If I don't I become surely and agitated. Writing for me, then, must be my stim. My son has taken to picking his nose. He'll tell me to look at something and then go to it. Then, this would be called a sticky stim or a stick stim (he likes to stick them places, too--GROSS!)

hny-

equinn