Kind of Lost

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This is how I'm handling it now:

"Please stop" (child continues and/or says no)
"Please stop, that hurts the cat/furniture/yourself/etc"(child continues and/or says no)
"If you don't stop, you get a time-out/to go to your room/no Teddy Grahams after dinner"(child continues and/or says no/or whines "I don't want to go to my room" and coninues)
"Go to your room/time-out/no Teddy Grahams" (tantrum)

I am consistent with the consequences. I am consistent with the boundaries. But what I want is for him to actually learn to listen the FIRST time so I don't have to give him consequences. And THAT's what I'm not getting.

It's as if once I ask him to stop doing something, the sequence has begun. Countdown to freakout.

Oh, and his question/answer conversation skills have not made it to "why" yet...he's just now learning to answer very easy/concrete questions.

You are being clear, and you are being consistent... but punitive responses may not be the most effective way of working with him. And, if he and I are anything alike, if there isn't a reason then it really did not matter to me - arbitrary rules were not a functional method for me. I was the kid who had to burn his hand on the stove - but once I learned... it stuck.


M.

I guess maybe then he doesn't see the logic in why we try to not destroy the furniture, avoid danger, and be nice to animals? Okay then, how do I deal with that?

Well... a couple things. Please infers a request; as a parent at that age, the command form is more appropriate. At that age, choice is a real bugger - to use a familial example... when my nephew was young, my sister would ask him if he wanted to, or was ready to, take a bath. Answer was always no. Telling him "Time for bath in five minutes" and then doing it took that issue away. At that age, and with the communication problems inherent, asking is not going to be the most effective route in my mind. Secondly, the explanation might need to come first, before working to change the behavior. A defensive posture does not set the mind in a receptive state. Lastly, make the punishment fit if you must go that route... "If you will not treat the furniture correctly, then you cannot use it at all." It's an excessive example, but I think it helps make the connection better than Teddy Grahams.


M.

I agree, and it also sounds like he may not need them. (sounds as if he is argueing rather than being hateful) It just worked well for me because mine are so close in age and fought non-stop when they were small. Five laps around the house for both can settle a sibbling smack fight pretty quickly. Not only did it expend some of that extra energy, but they had a sense of accomplishment when they were done. I could praise them on running so fast and then give them something to do.

Also, I found my son did the best in elementary school during the years when he was running track. He would practice for thirty minutes each day before school. He was never hyper, but that early morning release of energy still seemed to have an effect.

That sounds like the perfect solution for sibling fights! Yeah, once we establish the "mom-is-boss" thing, calisthenics will probably be used to burn off some destructive boy energy. But...mom is not boss yet. It's probably (also) because his dad and I got divorced this past year, and we split custody 50-50. So he has 2 sets of rules (and dad was always a preventer/circumventer rather than a boundary-setter. I.E. baby gates and outlet covers rather than saying "don't go there" and "don't touch that") and is still learning how to understand the situation. Since dad was a stay-at-home dad, and I worked, my ideas were always pushed aside: "well, you're not with him all day like I am" and so on...so I never GOT to discipline or really teach or do things my way.

But - progress has been made - I needed an hour or so of quiet today - and I told him to either nap or play quietly in his room (if the teacher's going to make him do it anyway, I might as well be consistent) and I heard him playing with a noisy toy in there, so I knocked...and then came in to catch him scrambling back to his bed. Not that I want to be feared...but I DO need to be the boss. It was a small, imperfect victory, but a victory nonetheless.

I remember that argumentative stage well. We didn't have "terrible 2's" at our house, we had terrible 3's and 4's.

Have you tried redirecting him with another activity that would meet his needs for movement, stimulation etc. but would not break the rules? Like ask him to stop bugging the cat/wrecking the furniture etc. and at the same time suggest that he bounce a ball/ jump on a trampoline/ squish some play dough etc. and then help him get busy with the new activity. I found that my guys were at their best behaved when they were engaged in an activity that they found interesting and got themselves into trouble when they were bored or restless. They needed tonnes of movement and stimulation (yet it couldn't be too noisy, too social etc.). As preschoolers they were absolutely insatiable when it came to learning and experimenting, and if I kept them engaged in safe, positive activities that was great, but if left alone for 5 minutes they could tear an entire room apart.

The same with verbal defiance, is it possible to redirect the conversation into a different topic, rather than arguing after you've stated the facts? Sometimes it is impossible for a 3 yr old to grasp logic, he may just like the process of debating with you. Or you could change the conversation into a silly one. As in, when he says the sky is green not blue, you could say that the sky is pink and he may end up laughing instead of arguing (maybe, sometimes this worked with my sons and sometimes they just dug in to the argument even harder, it just depended on their mood).

Also there is no way my guys could have been still and quiet for an hour or so while other children slept. Just not possible. It would have been sheer torture for them. Even now at age 8, one of my sons could, but the other would go nuts...he needs to move pretty well constantly.

I'm trying to think back to the 3's ... and I know my son was quite argumentative!

In part, they are trying to assert themselves.

In part, they may not have heard you.

In part, they may not think you have a valid enough reason.

I found it helped to ask my son to explain himself, to tell me why he was saying no. You won't get much at this age, but it's good to start a process. It lets the child know that you are willing to listen to him and consider his needs, and I think that is important (I have always hated the "don't talk back" concept, because it can shut off valid points from our kids). Then you remind him of your reasons, give fair warning for compliance ("by the time I count to 10 you will get off of the sofa") and then apply the consequences if the request still has not been met.

AS kids function on reason and logic. You always have to appeal to that.

But some lessons they just aren't ready to learn because, well, they are kids, and so getting them to understand it's a rule and needs to be followed or there will be consequences is about as far as you can expect to get.

Side note on the furniture thing: we later discovered that all the climbing and bouncing is an integral part of how my son relieves stress. Perhaps you can purchase a trampoline and direct all that energy there. Most AS kids need something physical and repetitive to self-calm. We've decided to sacrafice the furniture to it, but if you can find an alternative at this early stage, go for it.

DW Good advice, I always try to appeal to his logic, I wish my parents did when I was a child and make it a point to appeal to his.

He is undiagnosed as of yet, and I'm not sure it's AS. I am thinking more likely PDD-NOS, or at least a very, very different thinking style than most - although I'm not a neurologist by a longshot. He's not verbose at all, he talks but he's more likely to hit on one of his "catchphrases" and say it until everyone's brain hurts. It may be classic autism, he's a huge stimmer, and tends to be socially withdrawn (except around family, where he's a huge ham - if he's feeling good). Depending on who does the diagnosing and what their stereotypes are, it will probably either fall into the PDD-NOS or classic autism category. Anyway, I'm a little concerned about any IQ test they'll give him, simply because I know he's smart, but he's one of these kids that...if he doesn't know the "game/sequence/routine" he'll simply be more apt to just tap his pencil or make noises than play along and give answers.

While I realize IQ tests can be valuable in diagnosing spectrum disorders (not the overall score; it's an extreme variation among the component scores that seems to be the marker), I can't imagine giving an IQ test to a 3 year old. It seems inherently flawed to even try. IMHO. Is that part of what they do when they assess preschoolers, give an IQ test?

DW, I have no idea. Because I have called 3 times and haven't gotten an appointment yet. But my parents took me for one when I was 4, so 3 doesn't seem that far off. According to my mother, when I went for mine, it was a bunch of things like shape identification and pattern recognition - they kind of thing you find on the Sesame Street website games. But - I have no idea how IQ is actually measured by that...

Show the child more interest and attention by including them in things, things the child can make choices in,
let the child feel important and helpful. and yes, use some reverse psychology.

The behaviour your son is displaying is really pretty common. I have a three year old that does exactly the same thing. I have a 20 year old daughter that did the same thing when she was little. It does d your head in ! lol
reason he does it - to get a rise and an interaction out of you.

some tips.

Try to avoid saying " no and don't " unless it is very important. Rather than approach things from the negative point of view
e.g Don't stand on the sofa please" say " I llike it when you sit on the sofa, and walk away .......... next time you see him sitting on the sofa .. say " I love it when you sit so nicely on the sofa.. what a BIG boy! " Tell him what you would like him to be doing and praise him for it and try to ignore the things that really do not matter.
Rather than " do not run down the hall" - say " walking down the hall please. I like the way you are walking now"

If he is just arguing with you for the sake of it " a stapler is not a toy " - and he responds " yes it IS a toy" .. I would simply say nothing and pretend you have not even heard it.

save your reprimands for the really important stuff " NEVER RUN ON THE ROAD, YOU MUST STAY ON THE SIDEWALK!" - reason comes after the reprimand - "you will get hurt!"

Something else that can work pretty well at this age is not actually giving an instruction ( when they are feeling difficult ) but merely making the suggestion of something that assumes they have already carried out the instruction. e.g
rather than saying " It's bed time , time to get into bed please " ( then you get a performance)
Say " Which two stories are we going to read in bed this evening, would you like to chose them or shall I ? "
child chooses stories then hops into bed to have them. or you can prompt with "right .. lets go have the stories now ".. since you have already told him he will be in bed when he has them .. he will simply assume that he will be.
another example " get in the car please we need to go to the store" child - NO!
try " Where are you going to sit in the car today, in the front or in the back ? Or - I am going to race you to the car- who's going to be first, you or me ? " Or - "wow .. are you big enough to carry this (special thing bag/box, special shopping list etc..) up to the car today .. are you strong/careful enough ?

rather than - time to brush your teeth- child - NO!
" are you going to use the green or the white toothpaste today ? or would you like to stand on the stool or the box, to see in the mirror to brush your teeth, would you like the red or the blue toothbrush. Come and show me which floss you want to use today etc.. ( obviously one choice is enough for a small child ) If you do not get a response.. then answer the question yourself and start off to do what you would like the child to do. "hmm .. I think I will use the green toothpaste .. i like that one " .. I promise you .. nine times out of ten if you turn around in 10 seconds your child will be following along behind you.. or racing you to get the green toothpaste FIRST.
When you are three and a half .. you like to think of yourself as very very important and big, and strong and clever and tall etc..
Try to avoid lots of negatives and tell your child what you would like them to be doing, rather than what you do not want them to be doing. Or as i mentioned.. assume they have already carried out the difficult part of the instruction by talking about something that comes after, or by offering a choice within the instruction.

DW- here in NZ, there is no IQ test involved. It is usually a play based assessment or observation, as well as parent interview and observation of the child at preschool or at home with peers. For slightly older children with good language skills, we will use some formal language assessments to see if there are gaps with more abstract language and problem solving.
IF a formal assessment is needed then in the centre where I work, we use the ADOS. However.. most of us are very experienced in looking for the characteristics in a child that would indicate ASD, as well as listening to what parents/preschool are saying.
Our assessment team consists of a Speech Language pathologist, an Occupational Therapist a Physiotherapist and a Paediatrician. We call in the Psychologist if needed.
We do not normally give an ASD diagnosis without seeing the child in more than one setting ( particularly for more mild children ). For those children that are presenting with classic Autism features, they are normally given a diagnosis the same day or within a week or so. There are only IQ tests done if there is reason to be concerned about the child's cognitive level, and they do not normally occur until 6 years of age. Also they are never done in isolation, but as a battery of tests which look at a broader range of skills.