motor skills development

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Maybe that's why Aspies are so involved with technology, because it helps us with things we would otherwise have trouble with at times.

That's interesting about the joint issue, cause I do have a handwriting disability, yet my joints are able to sense when to tighten well enough to where I can play video games. It's like, if I'm not good at handwriting, shouldn't I be bad at video games then? It's kind of weird. I have been thinking that the Nintendo DS actually could help kids who have handwriting problems learn to use a pencil, cause you need to use the stylus to play the games. So it's like making a game out of how you hold a pencil.

I find what you said about the OT one of the most peculiar things about Special Ed in general, I guess OT would fall under that. When a child learns the skill they have a problem with, they're "rewarded" with all the supports they need to function well in school being taken away. It's like, they might as well be saying he should learn to slip out of his chair again, you don't reward someone with a negative, in other words.

I'm closer to you on this one, Kramer, even though my son has a co-morbid disability here. His OT wants him to keep writing, but he has to keyboard to basically get through school. I was blown away when he started middle school and got zeros for everything the teacher couldn't read - which was basically everything. At least the district special ed coordinator straightened THAT out; the teacher needs to ask him for clarification. And, now, since he has an alphasmart, she can request work be completed on that.

But there will be times my son has to write things by hand, accommodations at school or not, and transferring him to typing isn't to give up forever on handwriting. It's really to get him through. Writing is so physically painful that he can't produce the volume he needs to. Typing will enable him to get writing out legibly in the volume required. But he still practices his writing, within the limits of what he can do.

Cursive, however, has been discarded. He needs to be able to read it, but no one really cares, long run, if he can write it.

With 6 years of OT to work on his hands no one can say we haven't tried.

Always a balance, always a balance.

it doesn't seem to hurt him when he writes becasue he'll work on his math workbooks for hours at a time with his pencil and not complain.
i will try to watch his fingers, and mine the next time either of us write anything, so i can have a look adn see how his fingers are.
i do believe that legible writing is important, but also it can be "avoided" if necessary via computer.
but i do agree tht there needs to be a degree of legibility to it for him to be functional in teh real world.

thanks for all the suggestions.

btw, where do i find a vibrating pen?

I can not find a link to the actual pen we have and I've forgotten its proper name.
But here is one that vibrates has a chewy tip for those that like to chew on their pens
http://www.theraproducts.com/index.php? ... _id=296063

Which reminds me of something else the OT said to us about the angle of the writing surface. Apparently it can be easier for some to write on a slightly slopping surface like the old fashioned school desks.

And also the actual surface. If the desk is grainy it can leave bump marks in the paper. A smooth one however is good. And you have the whole feeling of the paper, particular noises made like the squeaking of pen on paper, grating of the pen...etc etc.

And Kramer...I would honestly think they hated writing. Mine's barely legible unless I really force it.

*Shrugs* So long as they can convey opinions perfectly in speech and typing, why should I care if they can write like a master calligrapher?

Regards
GM

I believe most of these kids' physical limitations boil down to a mental block instead of a physical one. How is that my gf's son has perfect eye/hand coordination when he plays his video games, but struggles to write well or operate a knife and fork? I believe it's because the way his brain prioritizes each individual situation. The games are a top priority to him so he concentrates intently while playing those and he does very, very well.....it's important for him to do so. Writing legibly or not making a mess while eating is not...or tying his shoes, etc, etc. It really makes no sense for him to be able to perform one so well and not be able to perform the others hardly at all. Each of the actions I mentioned require hand/eye (the same skill set) coordination and a purpose. I can see his brain saying to himself..."Why care so much about tying my shoes or writing well?? My mommy will take care of those things for me. My mommy won't play my video games well for me, though....So I have to do that on my own." And I'm talking about race car video games where the cars are moving very fast and you have to weave in and out of oncoming traffic, etc, etc. The kid can also navigate the internet as well as anyone.....So, in the end it's really about how his brain prioritizes each situation.

As parents you have to recognize the irony in situations like these and try and not make excuses....try and not enable what in the end boils down to pure laziness or helplessness. And to hell with the attitude that "this seems like a harsh stance." You have to be a little bull-headed.

I see a big clock when I think of this boys life. The clock is ticking and it has 8 years left til zero. By the time he's 18 he will be able to perform all of these functions we discuss on a daily basis that seem almost impossible for these kids to overcome. He will do them and there will be no acceptable excuse not to.

Kramer, I am both for and against you on that last point. I can be clumsy and drop things at times. I'll be applying the wrong amount of pressure on an object or gripping it poorly.

And it happens when I am preoccupied or suddenly distracted.

This is what you mean, no? And thus I agree.

Sometimes it will irritate me greatly and I focus on the task at hand.. and promptly drop something else. Somehow in my library of haptic responses, things are twisted. It is somewhat like some aspies(myself included) having vague and generic emotions.

I lack that granularity of predefined appropriate touch. That instinct. For example, I cannot safely tickle someone as I do it too hard.

Because even at 36 with clarity of importance pertaining to situational actions, I still need to consciously decide on appropriate grip.

And thus I disagree.

It's fascinating to me to hear about situations like yours. I just pick up a fork and eat. No other thought crosses my mind. The mental exhaustion you folks must go through to get through even some of the most menial tasks....I can't imagine it. I don't want to.

Grin. Its not THAT bad. Most tasks have a fairly broad range of tactile allowance. Mostly I dont have to think about things either. I just have to be mindful of the task. Rote memory can overcome most of the difficulties. I'm a little slow tying my shoes for example, but not so that I ever thought there was a problem.

At some point, practice overcomes talent. The most talented aspiring basketball player cannot be as good as a veteran in his prime, for example. Its just that for some, the time needed to reach that level of proficiency exceeds time available. Its an un-talent.

Hand writing must be a dance of the fingers. And lord, I cannot dance.

The way fingers work in writing and holding utensils is similar, but the way fingers work while playing a computer or video game is quite different.

My son's disability is not just mental. It is definitely more. This is a child who WANTED to write. Who first started writing when he was 3 years old. But by the time he was in kindergarten his abilities hadn't improved, and the writing that was brilliant at age 3 was no longer acceptable, and he quickly got frustrated. 2 years of determined practice and no advancement. It wasn't a mental block. It was definitely more, and it was so obvious to us. This is what LED us to have him evaluated, and what led to the discovery of AS. In our family, the HANDWRITING ISSUE CAME FIRST. No excuses because of AS; we didn't know he had it. But we COULD see that ability wasn't able to match desire, and we COULD see the pain and frustration it caused him.

Writing is a multi-task function, as my son's special education teachers will tell you. There is much more to it than will, and more than just hand-eye coordination. And, honestly, my son has trouble with ANY multi-task function. He is brilliant at one thing at a time; try to integrate, and he has far more difficulty than others do. That IS part of AS.

When you read the adults on this forum who didn't know they were AS until they were adults, and were never cut an ounce of slack by anyone, you discover that many had huge issues with handwriting, tying shoes, and the like, and still do. No amount of hard ass attitude made the issue go away for them, and they faced a lot of it. What DID happen was they got frustrated, lost self esteem, and entered the world unable to figure out why they couldn't do what everyone kept telling them they should be able to do. That is NOT what I want for my child.

Yeah, I'm a loose mom in many ways, and I'm loose with my NT daughter as well. But so far the evidence is that it only makes a few things a little more difficult for me, and isn't hurting them at all. They are both well adjusted, welcome pretty much anywhere, and doing well in school. And, yes, acquiring - in their own way - all the skills they will need as adults.

Sorry, but you're talking out your ass now. Handwriting takes fine motor skills and hand eye coordination. The same skills used to play video games. The exact same skills.

kramer- maybe instead of criticizing everyone, you should do a little more research..............here's an article about dysgraphia that i think sums up difficulties with writing.

Students with dysgraphia often have sequencing problems. Studies indicate that what usually appears to be a perceptual problem (reversing letters/numbers, writing words backwards, writing letters out of order, and very sloppy handwriting) usually seems to be directly related to sequential/rational information processing. These students often have difficulty with the sequence of letters and words as they write. As a result, the student either needs to slow down in order to write accurately, or experiences extreme difficulty with the "mechanics" of writing (spelling, punctuation, etc.). They also tend to intermix letters and numbers in formulas. Usually they have difficulty even when they do their work more slowly. And by slowing down or getting "stuck" with the details of writing they often lose the thoughts that they are trying to write about.


Some students can also experience writing difficulty because of a general auditory or language processing weakness. Because of their difficulty learning and understanding language in general, they obviously have difficulty with language expression. Recall that written language is the most difficult form of language expression.

Although most students with dysgraphia do not have visual or perceptual processing problems, some students with a visual processing weakness will experience difficulty with writing speed and clarity simply because they aren't able to fully process the visual information as they are placing it on the page.

Um, no, I'm not. We've been working with an OT and various special education professionals for 5 or 6 years now, and I'm telling you what the EXPERTS have told me. Those who are TRAINED in this area, quite specifically. Who have studied, lived it, worked it. You really think your personal opinion on it trumps their professional knowledge? NO WAY.

Hon, I'm 52 years old. I can't write (handwrite) worth a damn. I can type faster than many of you can read, though. Since I've been in the workforce I have had almost NO situations where I needed to write in cursive. No, amend that. I have had none. Any short notes I needed to jot down were fine in block letters. Everything is expected to be typed in documents, and/or in email. Nobody gives a hoot that my writing is illegible, because they never see it.

In school I spent so much time actually doing the mechanics of writing the letters and words that my intellectual academic work suffered. Hours of practice exercises assigned by the nuns did not improve my writing. Special pens (special grips, fatter pens, skinnier pens, hand/finger braces) did not improve my writing. I became so neurotic about making sure my writing looked good that I started missing the concepts and meanings of what I was writing. It all became a rote exercise. Once I got to University, where assignments were required to be typed, my education took off like a shot.

I also spent many years in instrumental music. It's not just a matter of fine motor control - I won ribbons and medals, and was a state competition winner several times on various woodwind instruments. It's the connections between forming the letters in sequence with the thoughts to be expressed and having that passed along to the motor area of the brain and then having the visual areas confirm that the letters/words match what my perceptions of the way they're supposed to look are. It's a recognized neurological condition called dysgraphia.

I also have a situation where it takes me longer than most people to process auditory input (well, words, anyway). So I always seem to be a bit preoccupied and, actually, I was accused of being mentally "slow" by at least one teacher because there were always pauses before I'd answer anything I was asked. She shut up rather quickly when my IQ tests came back as over the 140 threshhold, though. Oh, the Good Old Days!

All-in-all, the obsession that my teachers and parents had with "goodhandwriting" caused me a heck of a lot of misery and unneeded stress - there was enough stress in my life just trying to keep all the ducks in a row, this was not helpful at all.

Don't be so quick to assume it's just a matter of practice makes perfect. Because it's not always the case. You wouldn't expect a color-blind person to be able to see the difference between blue and green, would you?