Parenting and Power

Page 2 of 3 [ 35 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

17 Apr 2009, 11:14 pm

Aspie1 wrote:

It seems like there is some confusion about what power refers to. For the purpose of this thread, parents' power refers to being able to tell the child what to do. Here are some examples. To avoid the awkwardness of using "he or she" each time or the incorrect usage of "they", the pronoun "he" will be used.

EXAMPLE 1: Your child wants to eat fried cheese sticks, pizza, and ice cream for dinner. You're serving rotisserie chicken, steamed broccoli, and fruit for dessert. He tells you that he doesn't like what you served. In the end, what does the child have to eat? The food you serve, not what he wants. If he protests or acts up, he gets a stern warning and/or a punishment, then is required to eat what's served. Bonus points if you get to choose something you like for yourself after you're done feeding your child.

EXAMPLE 2: Your child's bedtime is 9:00pm on weeknights. He, on the other hand, wants to watch a show that's on at 10:00pm. He asks if he can stay up. The answer? "No." He tells you how good the show is. Response? "You need to go bed at 9:00." Knowing the consequences, the child listens, retreats to his room at bedtime, and turns off the lights ten minutes later. The parents' power still holds. Bonus points if you stay up until midnight watching sitcoms after your child is asleep.

EXAMPLE 3: You're shopping for groceries with your child. On the way toward the cereal boxes, you walk past some fruit snacks. He asks if he can have a box of Gushers fruit snacks (I love those, and I'm an adult). Your answer is no. He asks you again. Your answer is still no. He's upset, but your choice of not buying Gushers prevails. You both continue toward the cereal section, with you being somewhat angry, and your child feeling deprived of something he desired. Bonus points if you buy something as a treat for yourself.

EXAMPLE 4: Your child's room got really messy over the past week: stuff all over the desk, toys on the floor, clothes draped over chairs, etc. You walk into his room, and tell him to clean everything up. He protests. You tell him what the consequence will be if he doesn't start cleaning everything now. So, your wish takes priority over your child's. Hours later, the room is spotless, but your child feels utterly defeated. Bonus points if your computer desk is cluttered with computer printouts, photos, envelopes, etc.

Now, before you start posting heated responses, perhaps I'm projecting my childhood perspective of my parents onto your guys. But then again, regardless of the perspective, the parental power is still there. A parent has the power to enforce what the child eats, when he goes to bed, whether he gets a treat at the grocery store, how to keep his room, and whether he gets a pet. You might not think of it as power, but it's power nonetheless. After all, you are making decisions for your child. Yeah, I know, "it's for his own good", but ultimately, your child has to listen to you. Also, I'm sure the "bonus points" statements harshly illustrate the freedoms that parents have and children will never have. So ranting aside, that's what I meant by the word "power". I hope I didn't step on any toes, but I think this all needed to be said.

I guess we're mixing up quite a few perceptions of the term "power" in this thread.

In repsonse to the examples.

What to eat for dinner ... well, my husband has no more power over that than the kids do. Once I've bought dinner, everyone is eating it, period. I take into account everyone's preferences, and consult with whatever child is shopping with me, but once it's bought or cooked it's what everyone gets for the simple fact that to do otherwise would be wasteful of my time and wasteful of precious food.

And, yet ... tonight I called home to let my husband know our dinner plans in case he might find a chance to get t started before I got home. My daughter overheard me and told me that she had been looking forward to something else ... the same something we had had the last few weeks in a row. I explained why I had broken that routine, and she explained why she really wanted the routine. I called my husband back, told him plans had changed, and ordered the dinner she wanted.

Yes, I do have the power, but it would be stupid parenting to assert it any more than necessary. I had a happy daughter tonight who ate an enormous amount of healthy food. And that pleases me and meets all my parenting goals.

Bedtime. My kids know what time they have to get up and they know how difficult that will be if they don't follow bedtime. If they ask to stay up, I remind them of the last time I gave in and what happened. Problem solved. They KNOW. And, well, that program could be taped or found on the internet later ... something else they know. If I let them stay up late and they are grumpy the next morning, you know what happens? They blame ME for failing to push the issue. Which is why I see it much more as a responsibility than a power; even my kids know it is.

Ah, groceries. Well ... my kids have their own money. They can choose to buy candy with that. But they never do. When push comes to shove they know exactly why I don't put it in the grocery cart when they ask, and they don't want it bad enough to volunteer their allowance for it. Every issue like this in our family results in a discussion. We read the labels. We talk about food choices. We talk about the balance. We talk about what I was going to buy in the way of treats, and if this other item should be picked instead. I guess I have the power to just say no, but in my view that wouldn't be smart parenting. It is my responsibility to TEACH my kids, not force them.

And your last example .... i's their room. If they want to trip on their toys so be it. I could force the issue, but I don't. I prefer that they figure out the value of a clean room on their own. Because, again, it is my responsiblity to TEACH, and that is the method I'm comfortable with.

Technically, you are right, I could exert power in all those situations. But I've apparently disclaimed it. I'm not comfortable with power. I don't want it. And I feel I can parent RESPONSIBLY without it.

I've been charged with responsiblity. I MUST take that on. But power? I'm not forced to own it, just by virtue of my position.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

17 Apr 2009, 11:25 pm

ouinon wrote:

Edit: Posted at same time as Aspie1. Similar questions about definition of power in this context.

ouinon wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

It's funny, I've never felt "powerful" over my kids. What I've always felt is an incredible sense of responsibility. I feel the burden, I don't feel the power. If it is true that I have it.

Would you agree that whites had power over their black slaves in pre-abolition America, or that humans had power over most other animals?

The thing that I am finding very odd here is how three parents insist that they either have no power over their children, or very little, or that if they do it is not important because they don't feel as if they do.

Many men used to say, pre-women's rights, that it was nonsense that they had power over women/their wives; that women/wives twisted men around their little fingers etc. ...

But I don't think that women agreed with this analysis of the situation, :wink:

and so they campaigned for, and got, the right to earn, own property, vote, etc.

Either women were wrong, and men had no power over them, and parents have little or no power over their children, or there is some major confusion here about what "power" means! Because by modern standards/ideas of power there is no doubt at all that parents have power over their children, and it is very interesting that three parents seem surprised by/unwilling or unable to see this.

.

At the time, men seriously believed that women didn't want the stress or have the "right" type of intellect for al that. We now know they were wrong; they had convinced themselves of this because it had suited the survival needs of the time. And the social structure had kept women from being educated in most of those matters.

I really don't think we're going to get hundreds of years down the road and discover that children have always been capable of the developed judgement they need to make all these choices for themselves from the start.

A good parent relinquishes the choices as appropriate.

The law relinquishes the whole deal at age 18. An arbitrary cut off by which the child should have acquired the necessary judgement.

Because the power to make choices for someone is supposed to be a seriously taken responsibility, not just an exercise of power.

Slavery is morally wrong. Because one human is not supposed to hold unchecked power over another, and certainly shouldn't be able to buy it. Any parent who controls their children in a way that could be effectively compared to an owner/slave relationship should not be a parent. The law is quite clear that we do not "own" our children. They are our privilege and responsibility, and if we mess it the government will take them away from us and deliver them to the care of someone who, hopefully, understands that better.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

19 Apr 2009, 10:00 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

ouinon wrote:

Would you agree that men had power over women when women did not have the right to vote, earn, or own property, among other things? Would you agree that whites had power over their black slaves in pre-abolition America, or that humans had power over most other animals?

Many men used to say, pre-women's rights, that it was nonsense that they had power over women/their wives; that women/wives twisted men around their little fingers etc. ... Either women were wrong, and men had no power over them, and parents have little or no power over their children, or there is some major confusion here about what "power" means!

At the time, men seriously believed that women didn't want the stress or have the "right" type of intellect for all that. We now know they were wrong.

I really don't think we're going to get hundreds of years down the road and discover that children have always been capable of the developed judgement they need to make all these choices for themselves from the start. The law relinquishes the whole deal at age 18. An arbitrary cut off by which the child should have acquired the necessary judgement.

So you recognise that parents do have power over their children, ... but think that it is justified?

You seem to forget that many children in "developing countries" are still considered capable of exercising the judgement required to look after/teach and train much younger children, care for animals, ( on their own ), work in shops handling money, travel alone in big cities on "business"/errands, look after elderly/ailing relatives, earn money, find/buy food, etc. And children used to do this kind of thing in the past in the West too, very succcessfully.

And it is a fact that vast numbers of adults in "developed countries" are unable to read or write, to count or add up, do anything very much on thir own, feed themselves sensibly, keep out of crippling debt, look after anyone else reliably, abstain from excessive drug or alcohol use, remember the name of their president or other elected officials, etc etc, and yet they are allowed full adult rights. The "arbitrary cut-off point" is more than arbitrary, it is injustice.

People, and science, used to say that black people were inherently inferior intellectually and emotionally, required constant guidance and supervision, etc. It took a revolution for them to prove otherwise. Is it going to take another one for children to prove that most children ( over 7 ) show judgement just as good as most adults.

Quote:

Slavery is morally wrong, because one human is not supposed to hold unchecked power over another. Any parent who controls their children in a way that could be effectively compared to an owner/slave relationship should not be a parent.

All parent-child relationships in the West/developed world can effectively be compared to a slave-owner /slave relationship. The only difference is that the law, rather than mere social disapproval, ( which used to prevent some slave-owners, and husbands, from worse abuses ), puts a limit on what a parent is allowed to do to their child.

Some slave-owners were very kind to their slaves, allowing them to marry, live together, etc; providing comfortable/private sleeping quarters, decent cleaning/sanitation facilities, good food, time off, etc. Some even encouraged their slaves to "earn" their freedom by good behaviour.

So you are a "kind slave-owner", according to that comparison, as are most parents most of the time, but that does not change the power relationship.
.

Last edited by ouinon on 19 Apr 2009, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

19 Apr 2009, 10:09 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

What to eat for dinner ... well, my husband has no more power over that than the kids do.

He can go out and buy whatever he wants to eat, whenever he wants, unless he is dependent on you financially of course, like your children are.

Quote:

Yes, I do have the power, but it would be stupid parenting to assert it any more than necessary. I had a happy daughter tonight who ate an enormous amount of healthy food. And that pleases me and meets all my parenting goals.

Like the kind slave-owner who understands that it is in their, or even everybody's, best interests that the slaves be healthy, relatively happy, clean, etc.

Quote:

If I let them stay up late and they are grumpy the next morning, you know what happens? They blame ME for failing to push the issue.

This is what most slaves were like, needing pushing, guidance, surveying, because they had no power, and so lost their initiative to look after their own best interests. They were the master's, therefore it was the master's fault if they were unable to do something. Slave-owners used to talk about blacks as children who needed looking after. They really believed it, because they saw the black person disenfranchised/infantilised.

.

jenny8675309
Raven
Raven

Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 100

19 Apr 2009, 1:52 pm

Quote:

I don't enjoy excersing power over others, and I really avoid doing so. What I enjoy is winning by the power of persuasion, or by simply being the smartest in the room - winning by skill, not by the default of position.

And, actually, I enjoy seeing that power of persuasion develope in my kids. If they challenge me on something I want from them, but do it brilliantly, I end up all smiles. I'll hand them the point. If I can't let up on the task, I'll tell them that they've made a wonderful argument, that I am really impressed, but PLEASE we need this because of A or B.

I agree. I want my kids to learn to be responsible and smart, not just that they listen to the rules just because i'm bigger. That is the whole idea behind discipline, LEARNING, not control.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

19 Apr 2009, 2:08 pm

Ouinon, the thing in this discussion is that the focus really started with the ABUSE of power, or ENJOYING it. The question was if power makes one enjoy parenting.

I think the clear answer for me is NO.

Would we sign up for the experience of parenting if the power wasn't there?

The answer for me is YES.

There is an important difference between power and responsiblity. If you parent based on a sense of power, I think you will parent differently than if you parent based on a sense of responsibility.

The OP seems to believe his parents felt and enjoyed a sense of power.

I've honestly never felt that way about my own parents.

And I don't feel that way about MY parenting. It is a RESPONSIBILITY. NOT a power. Is there power there should you choose it? Yes. But I don't think one should parent that way. Doing so works against the responsiblity.

It matters becasue each is handled differently.

Yes, I could CHOOSE to hold power. But I do NOT.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

jenny8675309
Raven
Raven

Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 100

19 Apr 2009, 2:12 pm

There is a big difference between slavery and raising children. I'm sorry if you grew up feeling that way, but a healthy relationship is not that way. Children need raising, slaves do not. That is called abuse of power.

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

19 Apr 2009, 5:42 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

ouinon wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

It's funny, I've never felt "powerful" over my kids. What I've always felt is an incredible sense of responsibility. I feel the burden, I don't feel the power. If it is true that I have it.

Not feeling as if you have any power over them is not the same thing as not having any. And as an adult and their parent you definitely do.

Would you agree that men had power over women when women did not have the right to vote, earn, or own property, among other things? etc ...

The thing that I am finding very odd here is parents insisting that they either have no power over their children, or very little, or that if they do it is not important because they don't feel as if they do.

The question was if power makes one enjoy parenting.

Yes, but every parent who posted, apart from myself that is, expressed surprise at the idea that they might have power over their children, or seemed unable or willing to recognise this fact. Apparently it was not obvious to begin with.

I notice that in your last post you once again suggest that it is not the case. It seems to me impossible to answer the OP's question without establishing that.

In your last but one post you said that children do not have the judgement necessary etc, a "justification", which would imply that you think parents do have power ... which is it? Parents do have power over their children or don't they, according to you?

If they don't then women were obviously misguided asking for the vote etc etc, because nothing about their previous status gave men power over them ... ... ! :roll:

Last edited by ouinon on 19 Apr 2009, 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

19 Apr 2009, 6:06 pm

Imagine for instance if children had the right to find their own accommodation, as soon as they desired it, ( as John Holt proposed in his book "Escape From Childhood" ), and state housing benefit/aid to do so, or could earn money to pay for it with the myriad of jobs which a child could do, if they were allowed to, in our high technology/highly mechanised society, or on organic farms, etc, how would you feel as their parent about doing many/most of the things that you currently do for them, especially seeing how children brought up in other and/or older societies are clearly capable of looking after not only themselves but other children, old people, animals, money, housework, etc from a young age?

DW_a_mom wrote:

Yes, I could CHOOSE to hold power but I do NOT.

You do not have that freedom, in our society, to relinquish your power over your children, ( anymore than a husband could relinquish his power over his wife in the 1700's, however "nice/kind" he was ). You hold power simply by being an adult and their parent.

.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

19 Apr 2009, 7:12 pm

ouinon wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Yes, I could CHOOSE to hold power but I do NOT.

I think we continue to see the concept of power differently.

I cannot relinquish my responsibility for my children, but I certainly can relinquish my power.

I perceive one as a dictatorial relationship where I get what I want simply because I want it; the other contains more give and take and involves the gradual transfer to independence. What I deny is the right to order my kids around at my pleasure without working hard to make our family a collaboration. Seriously, were I to try to parent that way, they'd be taking my kids away. And, given the patterns I have now established with my kids, I wouldn't have a lot of success if I suddenly tried to play the dictator; they'd rebell.

The comparison of kids and women from 100 hundred years ago fails because there was no plan for transfer to independence; women were moved from dependence (on parents) to dependence (on a husband). The job of a parent, however, is to move the children FROM dependence and INTO independence. If you make no progress on that, society will be after you pretty darn fast.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

20 Apr 2009, 4:36 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

ouinon wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Yes, I could CHOOSE to hold power. But I do NOT.

You do not have that freedom, in our society, to relinquish your power over your children, ( anymore than a man could relinquish his power over his wife in the 1700's, however "nice/kind" he was ). You hold power simply by being an adult and their parent.

I think we continue to see the concept of power differently. I cannot relinquish my responsibility for my children, but I certainly can relinquish my power.

Definition of power: "Possession of controlling influence. The ability or official capacity to exercise control."

Unless you disowned your child, or were officially declared an unfit mother, ( whether for mental health reasons or other ), and had your parental status taken away from you, you have this power. You can not escape from it in society as it is currently organised.

What you can do is choose how to exercise it. But however you choose to exercise it you have power over your children. They know it, society knows it. What is very interesting, ( and almost astonishing despite having read about how many men had great difficulty "understanding" that they had power over women ), is that you and some other parents don't seem to "know" this.

Quote:

The comparison of kids and women from 100 hundred years ago fails because there was no plan for transfer to independence; women were moved from dependence (on parents) to dependence (on a husband). The job of a parent, however, is to move the children FROM dependence and INTO independence. If you make no progress on that, society will be after you pretty darn fast.

That is a brilliant observation, because although it is wrong it illuminates an aspect of the dependency issue perfectly. Which is that in the same way as women were transferred from one dependency to another, so the unnecessarily/absurdly lengthy and extreme dependency of children on their parents prepares them for the far lengthier dependency of constant and compulsive, or at least reliable and regular, consumption which modern society is based on.

PS. It is actually the parents who either deliberately or accidentally/through neglect bring their children up in such a way as to render them likely to be independent of the consumer society who find that society is after them "darn fast".

And those children who for one reason or another show signs in school of not achieving the so-called "independence" required to work/earn and spend reliably on reaching adulthood are swept up by medicine and become pharmaceutical consumers instead.

.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

20 Apr 2009, 12:04 pm

I'll go back to something I've noted early, and that is WHAT the OP and you seem to imply the power structure between parent and child MEANS. Which IS a dictatorship, which is pleasure in control, and other negative assumptions. Which DENIES the overriding RESPOSIBILITY that comes with power, and focuses purely on the concept of power. THAT is what I am arguing against. Parents aren't given that sort of "pure" and potentially heady power, and the reason is because it comes coupled with RESPONSILIBITY, and that RESPONSIBILITY is a natural CHECK against the power. You seem to deny that it is check, and that is because of your world views beyond parenting.

Given that you see society itself as complicit in the power structure, while I see it as anther check on parental power, you and I are never going to agree on the concepts being discussed here. You see the world as insidious; I do not., and I'm not going to be persuaded to. Yes, there are insidious forces at constant work, but I truly believe there are more positive forces in life than negative ones, and that having that belief as a guide makes living a more enjoyable experience. I'm not going to go down the road you suggest because I don't WANT to. Call me a sheep if you want, but I know that I am not. What I am is at peace with who I am, what I believe, and the community I live in, while also being aware that things are far from perfect and being willing to work in my own way on advancing positive change. I DO make positive change, and it is to me far better to hold a world view that allows me to do so.

It really seems to be time to agree to disagree. The OP asked for opinions, and opinions have been given. There have been interesting things to read and consider. The thread, in that way, seems to have served it purpose. But if we're going to move into persuasion, or having a "winner" here, I don't want to continue. Everyone has a point, and I see the point, even when I continue to disagree. Done.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,749
Location: United States

21 Apr 2009, 12:45 am

I stepped away from this thread for a short while, to see how it pans out and to get some perspective. Now i decided to come back and voice my input. When I was a kid, I honestly believed, beyond the shadow of doubt, that my parents enjoyed having power over me. It made perfect sense. I couldn't even imagine the concept of a parent not enjoying his/her power. It seemed as strange as a 20-something guy not enjoying sex. My parents were very strict with me; they monitored, controlled, and regimented every part of my life they could get their hands on. If I did something they didn't like, I was severely punished. (None of this was the case for my older sister, but that's beside the point.) I had little or no input in the food my parents served, had a 9:00pm bedtime at age 8 (maybe that's normal?), had to keep silent in grocery stores or else, and my room could easily be a Museum of Cleanliness.

Perhaps what added fuel to the fire was my grandparents' old-fashioned outlook on parenting in general. Now, don't get me wrong, they were very nice to me, and their home was the one place where I could truly be myself. However, when I confided to them about how strict my parents were, they responded with this: "A parent's word is a law of the family." Other relatives weren't helpful either; I think my parents must have tipped them off or something. When I tried to confide to them, they said: "I don't appreciate you saying these things about your parents." By then, I knew that it was just me against The System. Since I was outnumbered 10 to 1 (10 was the number of adults in my life), I resigned myself to never having freedom. What added even more fuel to the fire is something one of my parents' friends said to me: "As a child, you have to listen to your parents; when you grow up, you'll have to listen to your wife." In retrospect, I'm sure it was a joke, but at that moment, my heart just sank. Although horror stories about men losing half their assets are what turned me off marriage later in life, that was the first anti-marriage statement I ever heard.

So now, I'm young, single, have my own place, and loving every moment of it. I still talk to my parents, but when I'm in my apartment, I have true freedom, with no one to answer to except myself (and the IRS). I eat healthy, but only because I feel like crap after eating fast food; I go to bed whenever I want, even on weekdays; I buy myself as many treats as I want while grocery shopping, although my definition of "treats" has changed; and my entire apartment is a pigsty, with pizza boxes on the coffee table and old newspapers on chairs. Moral of the story? No child in the Western world has, and ever will have, powers like these. So while most parents use their power very responsibly, they still have to enforce limits on their children's lives.

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

21 Apr 2009, 8:13 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Parents aren't given that sort of "pure" and potentially heady power, and the reason is because it comes coupled with RESPONSIBILITY, and that RESPONSIBILITY is a natural CHECK against the power.

Power always creates a "reaction" of equal force, in some form or other. And I think that, as you suggest, this may well be responsibility. The more power parents have over their children the more responsibility comes with it. There would be less feeling of responsibility in a society in which children were free to leave home, earn/work etc.

But also as a couple of people have said, including myself, parenting often feels like loss of power, because of how much power one's child seems to have over one, of a different kind. I wonder whether that too would diminish if children were freer to come and go, take care of themselves, decide things for themselves.

It's weird how society at the moment seems set on making parenthood as burdensome and costly as possible. Population control in action. :wink:

Quote:

Given that you see society itself as complicit in the power structure.

Seeing as all the legal apparatus relating to child welfare, child rights, ( limited ), etc, are all social constructions this is obvious.

Quote:

I see it as anther check on parental power

It is that too. I believe that society constructs parental power over children; obviously this means society controls parents too.

Quote:

You see the world as insidious.

I see the world as many things but insidious is not a word that had occurred to me. Astonishing, extraordinary, immense, complex, amazing, yes. Certain forces in the world are insidious, though, as you say.

Quote:

I truly believe there are more positive forces in life than negative ones, and that having that belief as a guide makes living a more enjoyable experience.

I don't, at heart, believe that there are either positive or negative forces. Good and evil are both human constructs, labels which we apply to the world.

Quote:

Call me a sheep if you want, but I know that I am not.

I'm not going to call you a sheep. I am often struck by how "clear"/aware and interesting your posts are, and I tend to pay particular attention to them. :wink:

Last edited by ouinon on 21 Apr 2009, 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

ouinon
Supporting Member

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

21 Apr 2009, 8:17 am

Aspie1 wrote:

When I was a kid, I honestly believed, beyond the shadow of doubt, that my parents enjoyed having power over me. I couldn't even imagine the concept of a parent not enjoying his/her power. My parents were very strict with me; they monitored, controlled, and regimented every part of my life they could get their hands on. If I did something they didn't like, I was severely punished. (None of this was the case for my older sister, but that's beside the point.) I had little or no input in the food my parents served, had a 9:00pm bedtime at age 8, had to keep silent in grocery stores or else, and my room could easily be a Museum of Cleanliness.

I had a very similar experience, ( even down to having a slightly younger sister who, it seemed, could do no wrong ). And I too thought that my parents got pleasure out of it all. Took me a long time, and becoming a parent myself, to see otherwise.

And my bedtime, age 8, was 7 o'clock!

.

DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,689
Location: Northern California

21 Apr 2009, 12:17 pm

ouinon, you always make me think.

Which is a good thing.

But, I confess, there are days I'd rather not have to think too much

Aspie1, much of what you posted reinforces for me how important it is for parents of AS kids to REALLY understand how their kids think. Stuff like the wife joke, for example, can get you growing up with a fixed idea that will afffect so many of your decisions going forward. And it was just a joke ... parents of AS kids NEED to know how these little things can take off in their kid's minds. It was really interesting to read your experience, and how that makes you feel about your life as an adult. The worst part of parental "power" are all the unintended results. I doubt anyone in your family meant to turn you off of the idea of marriage or kids and, yet, they did. They certainly didn't mean to make you enjoy having a messing home and, yet, they did. And so on. It's interesting. Lol, I'll use that the next time someone tells me I should be more strict with my kids - I'll remind them it can backfire

ps - 9 O'clock is actually late for an 8 year old. Most of my daughter's friends are in bed by 8:30. We've always been a bit later here mostly because I don't want my kids eager to start the day at 6 am - because I'M not. It all varies by what the family routine is, who has to be where when, and how much sleep the unique child needs.

_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).

Page 2 of 3 [ 35 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

Parenting and Power Post Reply New Topic

Parenting and Power