Do all parents with severe ASD children want a cure?

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cyberdad
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28 Apr 2014, 1:04 am

BrookeBC wrote:
Btw, I love this site, but it is long past time to set up a sub forum for issues relating to the non-verbal and those with severe speech delay. I am well aware that there is a sticky thread at the top of the parents page, but its not sufficient. Non-verbal still make up 30% of the spectrum and we (parents and adult members) are underrepresented here, and a sub forum would help address this.


Hi Brooke, I set up a sticky thread at the top of the parents page (the one you are referring to) for parents of children with speech delays and non-verbal kids. Please have a read of some of the posts as the this topic is discussed in some detail.

The labels non-verbal and non-communicative are erroneously applied to 30% of autistic kids as it's becoming apparent that even the most severely impacted kids can either learn to communicate using electronic means or they acquire varying degrees of verbal speech much later in life. Nueroplasticity of the brain means speech can be taught even after the age of 30.



YippySkippy
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28 Apr 2014, 7:07 am

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The labels non-verbal and non-communicative are erroneously applied to 30% of autistic kids as it's becoming apparent that even the most severely impacted kids can either learn to communicate using electronic means or they acquire varying degrees of verbal speech much later in life. Nueroplasticity of the brain means speech can be taught even after the age of 30.


Remember when parents were being told they had to hurry up and cram as much information into their child as they could by age 3 or 5, because after that the brain was "set"? People were trying to teach their toddlers Chinese because they thought there was a magic window and they didn't want to waste it. Though we now know the brain is much more elastic, I think that those ideas still influence the labeling of autistic children. I think there is a tendency among "experts" to declare that if someone doesn't communicate by age X, then they never will.



HisMom
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28 Apr 2014, 9:52 am

The "magical window of opportunity to gain language" is still touted as slamming shut at age 5. This is a LIE that benefits no one but the payors of services for kids with challenges.

I ecently met a Mom (online) whose son was completely nonverbal until age 14 but now, just 7 years later, works 30 hours a week at a "regular" job. She is a source of great comfort for me, and keeps me going when the naysayers get me down. This kid isn't an isolated example of a late talker, so I know that communication can emerge at any age, but the overwhelming pessimism of some "experts" can discourage the most optimistic and strong of parents.

I think the first order of business for parents whose kids are diagnosed with very "flattering" labels should be to take the "experts" with a HUGE LUMP OF SALT. I wish someone had given me this advise two years ago when my son was first "diagnosed" as being "beyond help".



ASDMommyASDKid
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28 Apr 2014, 10:20 am

I am not exactly sure what you mean by "flattering labels" but honestly, unless you are in a place flush with both cash and concern, any parent has to be wary of arguments meant to reduce or eliminate services. It ranges the entire gamut from "beyond help" to "Oh, your child is doing so "well" and doesn't need help." It all has to be backed up--and if it isn't (or can't be b/c it is untrue)... watch out.

Schools don't necessarily want to spend either time or trouble if they think they can get away with it.



HisMom
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28 Apr 2014, 10:25 am

That was my point, actually, although I would include insurance companies and the State in the mix - basically any payors of services.

As for "flattering labels", I was trying to be sarcastic. Any label by any of the above entities that is applied with the intention to reduce - preferably eliminate - services is a suspicious one, IMHO.



BrookeBC
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28 Apr 2014, 10:35 am

Thank you cyberdad. Although I haven't posted as frequently over the past few years, I am a long term member and always enjoy your posts.

Currently my daughter is 7 and not functionally verbal. I recognize that severe receptive and expressive language delay is not a static diagnosis/condition and that even those with most severely affected can learn to communicate electronically over time (over a very long, grueling period of time with considerable time and resources being utilized), like you I am a part of this journey and it is something we work on daily. However, I wouldn't say that the label (non-verbal, non functionally verbal, severe expressive and receptive language delay) is erroneuously applied to our kids, but I think the experts present the label as static, when in fact it is a dynamic, evolving process. But I think those of us effected by the label face some unique challenges and with respect to the sub forum, I'm well aware that it has been debated in the past and of the arguments on both sides. I appreciate the sticky threat in the parents section, however, when I am looking for advise on an issue unique to those with speech delay I find it cumbersome to search thru a 106 page tread to find it. I stand by my opinion, this site would be more user friendly, inclusive and practical for parents of 'severe' children (The OP's label, not mine) if there was sub forum. Since I last visited the site, I see a sub forum has been added for autistic members of the LGBT community, it's a wonderful development. I don't see why is has to be so controversial to add a sub forum for the 30% of us impacted by distinct challenges associated with the dynamic, evolving, label of non-verbal autism.



HisMom
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28 Apr 2014, 10:38 am

BrookeBC wrote:
Thank you cyberdad. Although I haven't posted as frequently over the past few years, I am a long term member and always enjoy your posts.

Currently my daughter is 7 and not functionally verbal. I recognize that severe receptive and expressive language delay is not a static diagnosis/condition and that even those with most severely affected can learn to communicate electronically over time (over a very long, grueling period of time with considerable time and resources being utilized), like you I am a part of this journey and it is something we work on daily. However, I wouldn't say that the label (non-verbal, non functionally verbal, severe expressive and receptive language delay) is erroneuously applied to our kids, but I think the experts present the label as static, when in fact it is a dynamic, evolving process. But I think those of us effected by the label face some unique challenges and with respect to the sub forum, I'm well aware that it has been debated in the past and of the arguments on both sides. I appreciate the sticky threat in the parents section, however, when I am looking for advise on an issue unique to those with speech delay I find it cumbersome to search thru a 106 page tread to find it. I stand by my opinion, this site would be more user friendly, inclusive and practical for parents of 'severe' children (The OP's label, not mine) if there was sub forum. Since I last visited the site, I see a sub forum has been added for autistic members of the LGBT community, it's a wonderful development. I don't see why is has to be so controversial to add a sub forum for the 30% of us impacted by distinct challenges associated with the dynamic, evolving, label of non-verbal autism.


We might need to contact the administrators of the site to get that sub-forum up and running.



ASDMommyASDKid
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28 Apr 2014, 10:42 am

HisMom wrote:
That was my point, actually, although I would include insurance companies and the State in the mix - basically any payors of services.

As for "flattering labels", I was trying to be sarcastic. Any label by any of the above entities that is applied with the intention to reduce - preferably eliminate - services is a suspicious one, IMHO.


I thought so, but I like to state when I am not sure I am making the proper inference.



zette
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28 Apr 2014, 12:37 pm

BrookeBC wrote:
But I think those of us effected by the label face some unique challenges and with respect to the sub forum, I'm well aware that it has been debated in the past and of the arguments on both sides. I appreciate the sticky threat in the parents section, however, when I am looking for advise on an issue unique to those with speech delay I find it cumbersome to search thru a 106 page tread to find it. I stand by my opinion, this site would be more user friendly, inclusive and practical for parents of 'severe' children (The OP's label, not mine) if there was sub forum.


+1. Just wanted to add a vote of support for the creation of such a sub forum. My kid isn't "severe" or non-verbal, but if he were I would find a forum much more helpful than a sticky. Hopefully the current members can help guide it toward being a positive, accepting, helpful subforum like the current Parents forum. I'd suggest calling it "Parents of PreVerbal or Substantial Support ASD Offspring" or "Parents of Moderately and Severely affected and Non/Pre/Low-Verbal Offspring".

edited: changed from "kids" to "offspring" to be inclusive of adult children. :)



Last edited by zette on 28 Apr 2014, 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

YippySkippy
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28 Apr 2014, 1:35 pm

Quote:
+1. Just wanted to add a vote of support for the creation of such a sub forum. My kid isn't "severe" or non-verbal, but if he were I would find a forum much more helpful than a sticky.


+1



HisMom
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28 Apr 2014, 3:06 pm

Hey all,

Please cast your vote of support for such a subforum here :

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6032588.html#6032588

Thank you ! !



DnRn
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28 Apr 2014, 3:15 pm

HisMom wrote:
The "not looking at books" seems to be a constant theme with quite a few kids. Mine stims on the pictures - I have him look at board books, and lift-and-flap books, and he may actually look at them only 5% of the time, too. Thing is, he flips through the pages really fast, as he knows that he will be allowed to leave, once we reach the end of the book ! It is quite hilarious to see him flipping the pages REALLY fast. AND, he also tends to yawn openly when the books come out - even though we KNOW he isn't sleepy. It is almost eerie that he yawns to non verbally show his boredom !


I don't know if this would be helpful to anyone, but I had this same problem with my son when he was young. I remember thinking one time that everyone else's child seemed to love to read, but the only way I was going to get DS to read a book was to run along side him with the book open as he couldn't sit still and focus! What worked for us was to allow him to multitask. I actually started reading to him while he ate. It worked on 2 levels...He has feeding issues so it distracted him from eating (which is not a preferred activity) AND since he was eating and sitting still I could actually read to him and have him pay some attention (in the beginning it didn't look like he was paying attention at all, but his first words happened when he picked up a counting book and flipped the pages counting to 10 - so even though he didn't look like he was paying attention, he must have been).



HisMom
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28 Apr 2014, 3:18 pm

Oh, thank you so much for posting this ! OF COURSE it is helpful. I will try it when he is eating or maybe when he is in his car seat, too. Might work ! Thanks again !



nostromo
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28 Apr 2014, 3:37 pm

I agree I think my son is listening in and attending when I read and he looks out the window and Stims with his straw. Occasionally he will glance at the pictures other times lean right in and pay the closest scrutiny. It certainly beats the situations several years ago where his interest in books was tearing them up and eating the pages.



AndrewtheFiddler
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19 Jun 2014, 4:14 pm

I've never understood people who want their child's autism cured. I think they are just mixing up co-morbids with their autism. Mental impairment is a co-mormid, not autism. By saying they want to cure autism they are saying that they wish that they had a different child. I personally get frustrated by my dysgraphia and written communication disability because they make university difficult, but even things like ADHD I find has more benefits than deficits. My autism is what makes me who I am, not something to be cured, and if I had a child with severe autism I would love them the way they are, not wish they were someone else.



ASDMommyASDKid
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19 Jun 2014, 4:35 pm

AndrewtheFiddler wrote:
I've never understood people who want their child's autism cured. I think they are just mixing up co-morbids with their autism. Mental impairment is a co-mormid, not autism. By saying they want to cure autism they are saying that they wish that they had a different child. I personally get frustrated by my dysgraphia and written communication disability because they make university difficult, but even things like ADHD I find has more benefits than deficits. My autism is what makes me who I am, not something to be cured, and if I had a child with severe autism I would love them the way they are, not wish they were someone else.


You can have severe autism without mental impairment, and it not be easy on the child or the parent. If you are smart and cannot communicate well, receptively or expressively your intellect cannot be shared easily. There are adaptive and functional issues that result from that as well as behavioral issues that result from not being understood or understanding others.

I am not pro-cure -- I am just saying that being pro-cure does not mean the parent does not love his/her child or would want to extinguish all the quirks. For some parents, it just means they want to be able to communicate with their child. Not everyone uses the word cure in the same way.