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draelynn
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02 Aug 2011, 7:22 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
I don't even want to tell you what those morons did with ME! When I was a little kid! I had a hernia operation, and they cut my URETHRA! ON PURPOSE!


That just screams malpractice to me. It is not uncommon for nurses to damage the urethra when inserting catheters. Quiet honestly - healing a urethral tear from catheterization hurt more and longer than any of my other issues from giving birth. I was in pain for nearly 5 months. And the routine was deny,deny,deny.

People who write on themselves before an operation have got it right. You need to practice self defensive medical intervention for yourself. And those that cannot advocate for themselves be they infant or mentally ill patients need much much more stringent protection.



azurecrayon
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06 Aug 2011, 11:38 pm

Roman wrote:
draelynn wrote:
Doctors oath says 'first, do not harm'. It never rang truer than it does on this issue.


It is truer in case of lobotomy and shock thereapy. In case of circumcision at least harm is just a side effect. But for lobotomy and shock therapy harm is the ultimate goal of the treatment.


i dunno about that. at least lobotomy and shock therapy are targeting a problem or disorder. circumcision is chopping off a perfectly healthy and functional part of the body. thats true harm.

i have 3 sons, all intact. there was never any doubt for me about that particular choice. and to be honest, it wasnt even an option regardless of what my ex or my SO wanted. that simply wasnt going to happen to my babies.

the risks of circumcision are very real. even death is a potential "side effect". more common than death and just as horrifying is the occurrence of penile amputation. cases like that of david reimer are what made the decision easy for me. why run the risks of complications, amputation, or even death for what is an elective cosmetic surgery on an infant?


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Annmaria
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10 Aug 2011, 8:59 pm

The whole topic is so sad :cry: why


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OddFiction
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11 Aug 2011, 2:54 pm

I am not circumcised. And I've suffered no ill effects from it.
In fact, it amused at least one of my girlfriends, in that she'd never seen one that still had its "turtleneck".

My inclination would be to leave it alone. it's like an eyelid: it covers sensitive flesh.



Roman
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11 Aug 2011, 3:50 pm

azurecrayon wrote:
i dunno about that. at least lobotomy and shock therapy are targeting a problem or disorder. circumcision is chopping off a perfectly healthy and functional part of the body. thats true harm.


In case of lobotomy and shock therapy they also damage a perfectly healthy brain tissue. I mean, no one singled out any "degenerating tissue" that is responsible for brain disorder. So all they can do is to make a completely random damage; that is, damage of what is most likely a healthy tissue. The goal of this treatment is to make sure that the brain is damaged so much, that it doesn't have the energy to do whatever disfunctional thing it was doing due to mental disorder. Well, they throw a child with the bath water: the brain wont have enough energy to do "good" things, either.



nostromo
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12 Aug 2011, 4:32 am

OddFiction wrote:
I am not circumcised. And I've suffered no ill effects from it.
In fact, it amused at least one of my girlfriends, in that she'd never seen one that still had its "turtleneck".

My inclination would be to leave it alone. it's like an eyelid: it covers sensitive flesh.

True, I also have an inclination not to perform needless butchery on helpless individuals without asking their consent. I guess I'm funny like that!



2ukenkerl
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12 Aug 2011, 3:49 pm

draelynn wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
I don't even want to tell you what those morons did with ME! When I was a little kid! I had a hernia operation, and they cut my URETHRA! ON PURPOSE!


That just screams malpractice to me. It is not uncommon for nurses to damage the urethra when inserting catheters. Quiet honestly - healing a urethral tear from catheterization hurt more and longer than any of my other issues from giving birth. I was in pain for nearly 5 months. And the routine was deny,deny,deny.

People who write on themselves before an operation have got it right. You need to practice self defensive medical intervention for yourself. And those that cannot advocate for themselves be they infant or mentally ill patients need much much more stringent protection.


I had NO reason for a catheter. I had them later with NO incident though.



Marcia
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12 Aug 2011, 7:45 pm

I've just looked at this thread for the first time. Am I to understand that in the US boys are routinely circumcised?

In Scotland it's only done for religious reasons, or perhaps in later life as a medical necessity.



Washi
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12 Aug 2011, 8:35 pm

Marcia wrote:
I've just looked at this thread for the first time. Am I to understand that in the US boys are routinely circumcised?

In Scotland it's only done for religious reasons, or perhaps in later life as a medical necessity.


Official statistics from 1979-1999: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/cir ... isions.htm (edit: more recent stats: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/)

According to that the overall rate in 1999 was 65%, but it depends a lot on the state - western states have low rates and mid western states very high. A lot of non-religious people have circumcised their sons in the US under the misconception that they were doing them a big favor. The hospital I was in suggested I do it to my son (now three years old) even though I was on their records as Buddhist.



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19 Aug 2011, 7:04 pm

Circumcision is child abuse, no matter which way you want to justify it. You are chopping off a piece of an infant's body. Should we advocate female circumcision to go along with male, because it is a custom many places on earth? Who needs labia or clitoris... who needs foreskin? There is no difference here.



League_Girl
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20 Aug 2011, 12:01 am

My son has never been circumsized yet. I don't see the point in it and I have seen my son's penis and it doesn't look like any folded skin. So I don't understand how it's easier to clean if you get it circumsized.

My husband wanted it done for that reason but I said no but he said yes because he saw it as normal and as a health thing. He thought it was mandatory but thank goodness he got talked out of it by a doctor. Since less boys are being circumsized these days because medicare quit paying for it. So I guess parents didn't want to spend the money on it so they don't get it done.

My husband was circumsized too.



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20 Aug 2011, 3:27 am

Doctors flat-out lie to you about circumcision. The cleanliness thing is an urban legend, and more of those who have been circumcised attempting to justify what was done to them somehow - both males and females produce smegma, and the production of this very useful skin lubricant is not affected in any way by circumcision. The foreskin makes the penis stay cleaner than a circumcised penis does - it is there to protect the penis from damage and infection, keep the skin supple, and function as a way to keep an external protrusion as an internal sex organ as it is supposed to be. There is no justification for circumcision. none. ever. It is child abuse, a human rights violation, and most doctors, frankly, don't know what the f**k they are talking about in relation to it.



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20 Aug 2011, 4:42 am

We really never thought about this much. DH and I are inter-racial couple and we pretty much don't follow any traditions. The boys never had any infections, and we only bathe them once a week.

Our family doctor doesn't do it and health insurance wouldn't cover it. It's becoming a rare thing here I think. I remember reading some data saying less than 5% of baby boys born here are circumcised nowadays. Intact boys are the "normal" ones for their generation.

I still remember the first time I saw a circumcised penis I blurted out "Why does it look so weird?" The guy said "It's circumcised." I asked "Really? Why?" He said "No idea." To people who are not used to that it looks as strange as foot binding or neck stretching traditions. :)


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draelynn
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22 Aug 2011, 1:05 am

Marcia wrote:
I've just looked at this thread for the first time. Am I to understand that in the US boys are routinely circumcised?

In Scotland it's only done for religious reasons, or perhaps in later life as a medical necessity.


It is routinely asked of most parent still in the US. It wasn't so long ago that it was done routnely without even asking for consent. now that hospitals are being sued for wrongfully circumcising, insurance has stopped paying for it and every major medical board does not support it, doctors are starting to slowly but surely come around.

Most medical schools here do not even teach the function and purpose of the foreskin - but they do teach how to amputate it. Most doctors here do not know how to care for an intact boy. And many people do not even know what an normal penis looks like.