When new members ask about diagnosis
Yes it's true, what purpose indeed? a few years ago when my daughter had a hearing test, I met a mother in the same clinic who had young two teenage sons around 13 and 14 whom she was seeking an ASD diagnosis for. Both boys were gifted intellectually, top of their class, played sport and had friends. As I spoke to this lady it became apparent her main concern was their fixed interests and occasional strange way of talking and behavior and that they had problems talking to girls. While she was embarrassed about their behavior in public the boys were actually quite happy cheerful children who were succeeding in school? quite bizarre??
I think I see now. Yes it is weird when someone needs something to be wrong. I thought you were talking about people like me. My daughter did well but was very clearly different. They called me into meetings to tell me what was wrong and then explained how they would (fail to) handle the problems. They made fun of me when I started to get private assessments and ignored the documents because she was able to learn math and reading. Until all of a sudden she wasn't going along enough and then they wanted to avoid addressing the real problem even when they started spending money. Well, that was my opinion.
And then at some point, after I learned that my role as a parent allows me to produce documents, answer questions of fact that are asked, and mostly, ask questions if I don't agree with something, I also realized that it's seemingly against the social rules for me to complain much. School staff can complain of course. And the parents of children who aren't considered special needs appear to worry and complain about things their children do or don't do with each other all the time.
That's what really seems bizzare to me. The fact that we try to push everyone into some mythic idea of what's normal and perfect, and the closer they come, the harder they are pushed. And the more complaining their parents seem to do. How weird is it that a parent can complain "my child only has a few good friends, I'm worried" but it's socially inappropriate for me to complain "I worry whether my child will ever make a friend"? How weird is that?
Apparently the social rules are that one must be calm and cheerful about more serious problems, but it's ok to complain about things that are not big problems. Sometimes it gets me down and does make me fel isolated. But it seems to be reality.
Complaining about light topics is viewed differently from complaining about things that are perceived as big problems. The less close to a given person you are, the lighter the conversation is expected to be. Anything sufficiently big, I have to basically keep to myself (well, between my husband and me) but and complain about very minor things like traffic, more freely b/c it s considered part of polite (but not necessarily sparkling) conversation.
People really don't know how to react to heavier matters and it becomes awkward.
I am really bad at applying social rules like this, even when I sort of know them, so I just opt to keep quiet about things when in doubt.
Thanks ASDMommy. It's just confusing, why this is. But I finally learned that rule is one to try to apply. So I try to stay quiet or speak very positively.
btbnnyr
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Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
Is this even an issue, though? Are doctors diagnosing NT children with ASD?
Also, if this description is what some people think Asperger's is, let me assure you it is not. Children with Asperger's need more than counseling for social issues. Everyone here understands the criteria for diagnosing ASD, right? Social skills problems are only one component of that, even for those with Asperger's.
It seems that some parents mentioned earlier in this thread from some other thread I didnt' follow were seeking diagnosis for such a kid, and if parents go to lots of psychs, they will likely get the ASD diagnosis that they want at some point.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
Another aspect of this is the reality that in evaluating people for autism spectrum disorders, a balance has to be found between overdiagnosis and under diagnosis and that trying to avoid mistakenly diagnosing people results in more people with autism being missed. There are reasonable arguments as to which side it's better to err on, but errors, both false positives and false negatives, are inevitable.
btbnnyr
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Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
In terms of allocating resources, I think that high-functioning verbal children who communicate and may even socialize should have fundamentally different kind of accommodations than low-functioning non-verbal children who can't communicate.
What I mean is that the most $$$$ one-on-one human resources should be for LFA and/or non-verbal/pre-verbal.
HFA children with severe impairment in a specific area should also get one-on-one for that specific area.
HFA children who have milder impairments and no severe impairment in a specific area should be helped in a way that uses less one-on-one and more like teaching certain skills that are harder for them to pick up naturally with the goal of timely independence from any aide being with them as an aide might be with an LFA child all day.
As an eggsample from my own childhood, I got help in terms of EF in junior high, but not with an aide, but with a clear simple system that I had to manage myself of doing and turning in homework. I had really bad EF (maybe caused by sensory overload and junior high complexities) in 7th grade, but as a result of this help in 8th grade, I developed good EF skills, so I was able to be independent and responsible in high school, which set the foundation for me going to college, etc. I don't know if I would have done as well with one-on-one aide, as that would have dropped my need to develop EF skills that make a big difference in terms of adulthood functioning/outcome.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
I think there should not be an always when it comes to what kids need.
We all have our childhood stories of what worked and what didn't work.
As a little girl I was very easily frightened, mystified by games, and though I could talk I did not do conversation. It was terrifying when I was placed in a group of highly verbal Aspie boys for support and that simply could not ever have worked.
I really do feel it's important to match the services to the child's overall needs and it may be better to provide individual support when there isn't an easy peer group. And when there are comorbid problems like anxiety or with reading skills which might independently require one to one if they were a little more severe. Independence can still be what is being supported and still be what is achieved.
There's no making up for what you don't get as a child, it's always finding ways to compensate and I think it's a terrible mistake to put all our resources only into those designated as the lowest functioning. Maybe as much as I hate the response to intervention model, there is something to be said for finding the minimum service level needed and providing what's needed, rather than creating hard and fast rules. Every child deserves a chance to grow even if needing more resources than she or he should.
I think part of the issue is dedicating resources like personnel/time and money to actually serving individual children's needs. Doing testing/assessments is great, but it doesn't matter much if they are going to plug and play your kid into what already exists and fight anything that they do not usually do, just because they have never done it before. Unless your kid happens to match up relatively well into a school's menu of options, your kid is not truly getting an IEP. It is off the rack, with minor alterations available, but not custom made, if that analogy makes sense to anyone.
HFA children with severe impairment in a specific area should also get one-on-one for that specific area.
HFA children who have milder impairments and no severe impairment in a specific area should be helped in a way that uses less one-on-one and more like teaching certain skills that are harder for them to pick up naturally with the goal of timely independence from any aide being with them as an aide might be with an LFA child all day.
Isn't that how it is already? Schools don't hand out aides like lollipops, at least in my experience.
HFA children with severe impairment in a specific area should also get one-on-one for that specific area.
HFA children who have milder impairments and no severe impairment in a specific area should be helped in a way that uses less one-on-one and more like teaching certain skills that are harder for them to pick up naturally with the goal of timely independence from any aide being with them as an aide might be with an LFA child all day.
Isn't that how it is already? Schools don't hand out aides like lollipops, at least in my experience.
Even when you need one...
An Asperger's or HFA diagnosis does not mean you don't need an aide. Sometimes a child is severely limited by the lowest of the splinter skills; or other skills that are fundamental to a child functioning in a mainstream class are just not high enough.
Yes, they have to fit kids into what they have and it takes work to customize. And when it's one to one, people accommodate individual needs much more easily.
I probably shouldn't be personalizing this as I am. It just seems sometimes like I'm seen as overly demanding for wanting and trying to be part of the world. At my workplace they get on me for taking too long to communicate, at my kids schools they have often questioned what's wrong with me that I would suggest they help (though they try now because they have the documentation). And I just often feel personally attacked when people here seem to be questioning whether the needs of those who are high functioning are legitimate and seem to be questioning the motivation of other parents when we do not really know much for sure beyond that they are worried. As I was once worried and confused.
This would be great, wouldn't it? Currently, my son's only need is social skills/pragmatics classes, but they are delivering it by giving a "class" to all of the kids with a deficit in this area together. All my son is learning is to be annoyed by both therapists and other kids on the spectrum.
I feel like my earlier point is being lost here: my point is that WE do not have the resources to diagnose someone over the internet, as there is no way for us to distinguish between someone looking for something that isn't there (which I think is a straw man argument, btw) and whether there are critical needs that aren't being met.
(For the record, as I'm feeling like I have to defend my decision to look for support for my son, we did go from professional to professional looking for answers. EVERY SINGLE ONE gave us a diagnosis of a neurological issue: we had one ADHD, two AS and one PDD-NOS. It wasn't until we went to the developmental center that they were able to explain how AS fit with a child who was very verbal, very social (if sometimes unsuccessfully so) and otherwise able to "pass." So there are parents who go from place to place looking for answers for multiple reasons. Our reason was that we had a son who used suicidal language from the time he was four.)
You can have feelings about "other people wasting resources" if you want, but I'd hate for those feelings to drive away parents who may genuinely need help just because they didn't say exactly the right things in the right way.
An extreme example of what you are talking about
http://www.smh.com.au/national/educatio ... 21flw.html
There's just no pleasing parents...

This is true, but BTNNR and I are speaking about carving out limited resources for the "neediest" applicants...
This is true, but BTNNR and I are speaking about carving out limited resources for the "neediest" applicants...
One of the problems with that perspective is it makes it too easy for them to claim there is nothing left for the "higher" functioning kids.
Which ones are the neediest? The group that includes YOUR child, I'm guessing.
Actually my child is borderline LFA/HFA (high on IQ but low on social skills) so no...if you read BTNNR's post she referred to people classified on the lower end of the spectrum who need the most financial support. BTW there is no need to "SHOUT"...
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