My 7yr old won't tie up her jacket

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Waterfalls
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11 Oct 2015, 6:04 pm

Oh my.....I thought it might be an expression but honestly in my mind I was picturing ties were involved somehow.

Being very clear every time is important, you don't want your child wondering about an expression even if you also tell her to zip or button.



ASDMommyASDKid
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11 Oct 2015, 7:02 pm

I was picturing one of those really annoying kind of coats with ties and zippers, but you guys are right. The OP mentioned zippers and buttons, so yeah, nothing to tie up. It could be a pragmatic issue.



League_Girl
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11 Oct 2015, 8:57 pm

I also thought the OP meant his daughter had ties on her jacket you need to tie to close it and then he mentioned buttons and zippers so I thought she had those too and also wouldn't do that. But I re read it and saw he actually said he tells her tie up her buttons and zippers. She could be wondering how does she do that and she has never made the connection that he means to button it up and zip it because that is what he always does after he tells her to do it. I have never heard this expression. I wonder where the OP is from.


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Waterfalls
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11 Oct 2015, 9:11 pm

I think it might be confusing, though, because the child may have an idea what is wanted, and her mom might see that, but the child might get stuck because of the contradiction between the direct content and what her mom really means.



Fitzi
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11 Oct 2015, 9:46 pm

My occasional babysitter ( when I was a kid) used to ask me to "shut the light", and I had no clue what she was asking me because there was no cover on the light. At some point, I figured out she meant: "turn off the light."



League_Girl
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11 Oct 2015, 11:48 pm

I remember the first time when my mother told me to hang up the phone. I was confused because how do you hang a phone? Only hats, scarves, umbrellas, sweaters, jackets, coats, all got hung up and now my mom was telling me to hang up the phone? Mom got frustrated with me and I had no idea how I am to hang it up because there was no where to hang it and she wouldn't give me more instructions so she came over and put the phone on the thing and I learned then that is what hanging up the phone means. I think it took me about a couple times before I finally made the connection.

I also remember another time when my mom, my brother, me, and my uncle were all playing a game and he hands me a deck of cards and tells me to "cut" and i am looking at them trying to figure out how do I cut these cards and he keeps telling me to "cut" and my mom tells him "She doesn't know what that means" so he takes them from me and hands them to my brother and tells him to cut so he takes half of the cards off the deck and my uncle picks them up and keeps shuffling then and he tells my mom to cut and then I wanted to cut them but he wouldn't give them to me to do it.

And the best one I took literal for many years of being told to stop that or don't do that or don't throw that, stop that teasing. I would stop that and always did other things and my mom describes it at they would tell me to stop that and I would and do another mischievous thing and it was that BS I always did. She would also tell me to stop that teasing and I always did another one. It was until a month before my 12th birthday when her and I were coming home from Montana and I wouldn't quit teasing her because she kept telling me to stop that teasing. Then she got really mad and kicked me out of the car. Then I find out she meant quit teasing her all the way home and that time I didn't make the connection that she meant quit teasing when she said stop that teasing so I argued with her telling her that she didn't tell me that, she said stop that teasing. I honestly thought she was mistaking and that she miss poke when she told me what she meant and I thought it was her strange way of telling someone to quit teasing. I still continued taking the word "that" literal until high school. In a literal sense they do mean stop that but they do not mean you can do something else annoying like if they say "don't touch that" they do not mean go touch other things. But to someone who takes things literal, they would think they can touch other things but not that thing. But my mom and dad could never figured out why I never listened and it turned out I had been listening all along, they were just telling me to stop that so I did and did something else. Her reaction to how I interpreted stop that teasing "Oh my god, are you serious?" and then she realized she did tell me to stop that teasing so I was listening. I am sure she also thought I was ignoring her when she told me to hang up the phone and yet I was able to figure that one out but not the word "that."

And they say we are logical creatures but really we're all not.


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Fitzi
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12 Oct 2015, 8:04 am

League_Girl wrote:

And the best one I took literal for many years of being told to stop that or don't do that or don't throw that, stop that teasing. I would stop that and always did other things and my mom describes it at they would tell me to stop that and I would and do another mischievous thing and it was that BS I always did. She would also tell me to stop that teasing and I always did another one. It was until a month before my 12th birthday when her and I were coming home from Montana and I wouldn't quit teasing her because she kept telling me to stop that teasing. Then she got really mad and kicked me out of the car. Then I find out she meant quit teasing her all the way home and that time I didn't make the connection that she meant quit teasing when she said stop that teasing so I argued with her telling her that she didn't tell me that, she said stop that teasing. I honestly thought she was mistaking and that she miss poke when she told me what she meant and I thought it was her strange way of telling someone to quit teasing. I still continued taking the word "that" literal until high school. In a literal sense they do mean stop that but they do not mean you can do something else annoying like if they say "don't touch that" they do not mean go touch other things. But to someone who takes things literal, they would think they can touch other things but not that thing. But my mom and dad could never figured out why I never listened and it turned out I had been listening all along, they were just telling me to stop that so I did and did something else. Her reaction to how I interpreted stop that teasing "Oh my god, are you serious?" and then she realized she did tell me to stop that teasing so I was listening. I am sure she also thought I was ignoring her when she told me to hang up the phone and yet I was able to figure that one out but not the word "that."

And they say we are logical creatures but really we're all not.


My son and I had the same exact issue with him not understanding that I meant "stop all behavior that includes any more" whatever I was asking him to stop, and thinking I meant to only stop "that" very particular incident of whatever it was. It took me awhile to figure it out. Like, a couple of years. I thought his inability to stop was due to impulse control issues, but it was because I was saying "that" and he was translating it literally.

Oh, and one time I said: "Let's hang out outside." When we got outside, my son asked: "What are we going to hang from?"



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12 Oct 2015, 9:13 am

I am not overly literal in my interpretation of language, but I thought this thread had a peculiar title. I asked myself, "Why is a parent asking their child to tie up a jacket? Is it for compactness in some kind of backpacking situation?"

So it could be that.

Also, I don't think there are reliable tests for sensory issues. Hyper and hypo sensitivities can come in peculiar mixes and change with context and other factors (e.g., migraines may activate sensitivities, or sensitivity that is kept under control in normal situations may be uncontrollable in times of stress of fatigue.)

Back on the language thing, I thought it was an unfortunate choice of words in the OP to say "My daughter is bad for not wanting a jacket on." The OP hasn't been back in a week, so there isn't much point in bringing it up, I suppose.



League_Girl
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12 Oct 2015, 10:00 am

Fitzi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:

And the best one I took literal for many years of being told to stop that or don't do that or don't throw that, stop that teasing. I would stop that and always did other things and my mom describes it at they would tell me to stop that and I would and do another mischievous thing and it was that BS I always did. She would also tell me to stop that teasing and I always did another one. It was until a month before my 12th birthday when her and I were coming home from Montana and I wouldn't quit teasing her because she kept telling me to stop that teasing. Then she got really mad and kicked me out of the car. Then I find out she meant quit teasing her all the way home and that time I didn't make the connection that she meant quit teasing when she said stop that teasing so I argued with her telling her that she didn't tell me that, she said stop that teasing. I honestly thought she was mistaking and that she miss poke when she told me what she meant and I thought it was her strange way of telling someone to quit teasing. I still continued taking the word "that" literal until high school. In a literal sense they do mean stop that but they do not mean you can do something else annoying like if they say "don't touch that" they do not mean go touch other things. But to someone who takes things literal, they would think they can touch other things but not that thing. But my mom and dad could never figured out why I never listened and it turned out I had been listening all along, they were just telling me to stop that so I did and did something else. Her reaction to how I interpreted stop that teasing "Oh my god, are you serious?" and then she realized she did tell me to stop that teasing so I was listening. I am sure she also thought I was ignoring her when she told me to hang up the phone and yet I was able to figure that one out but not the word "that."

And they say we are logical creatures but really we're all not.


My son and I had the same exact issue with him not understanding that I meant "stop all behavior that includes any more" whatever I was asking him to stop, and thinking I meant to only stop "that" very particular incident of whatever it was. It took me awhile to figure it out. Like, a couple of years. I thought his inability to stop was due to impulse control issues, but it was because I was saying "that" and he was translating it literally.

Oh, and one time I said: "Let's hang out outside." When we got outside, my son asked: "What are we going to hang from?"



I wonder if people thought the same as you did, I also had poor impulse control but I don't think they realized I was being literal. Also if you told me to not do a action anymore, I wouldn't know you would mean not ever again not today not tomorrow, never. I just thought you would mean that particular time. Even though "anymore" means never again, I didn't even understand what that word meant so I realize when these people kept telling me in 6th grade they didn't want me calling them anymore, they were being literal, I just didn't understand what anymore meant. Instead I thought they meant that particular time or that day so I would quit calling and then would again the next day or later in the day.

Luckily I grew out of these things when I learned what people mean so I just started to assume to be safe than sorry than stressing about "do they mean now or never, do they mean just for today or never?" Same as for the word "that."

I don't know if I ever took "Let's hang out outside" literal but I did take it literal when Kevin would say in Home Alone "I just hung around" and I thought he was lying because he didn't hang around. And I was in middle school when I learned "How's it hanging?" and I was so lost when I was asked that because I didn't know what was hanging and I thought they were teasing me. But they had to teach me what it meant. Same as for "what's up?" I took literal for many years until the 8th grade when I was also told what it meant.


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ASDMommyASDKid
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12 Oct 2015, 10:02 am

Adamantium wrote:
I am not overly literal in my interpretation of language, but I thought this thread had a peculiar title. I asked myself, "Why is a parent asking their child to tie up a jacket? Is it for compactness in some kind of backpacking situation?"

So it could be that.

Also, I don't think there are reliable tests for sensory issues. Hyper and hypo sensitivities can come in peculiar mixes and change with context and other factors (e.g., migraines may activate sensitivities, or sensitivity that is kept under control in normal situations may be uncontrollable in times of stress of fatigue.)

Back on the language thing, I thought it was an unfortunate choice of words in the OP to say "My daughter is bad for not wanting a jacket on." The OP hasn't been back in a week, so there isn't much point in bringing it up, I suppose.


Yeah, I didn't say anything about the language choices either because different regions have their own local patois and where I currently live they use words like bad in what I consider to be an idiosyncratic way. It doesn't mean bad as a value judgement all the time. Sometimes people will say x is bad about doing y, and they mean that it is a habit that they do not care for, not that it is bad in a strong sense of the word. That was how I took it.

As you say, the poster has not returned so , it does not much matter other than in an observational way at this point.



ASDMommyASDKid
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12 Oct 2015, 10:09 am

Oops I messed this up and I tried to delete it after I reposted.



Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 12 Oct 2015, 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

ASDMommyASDKid
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12 Oct 2015, 10:10 am

League_Girl wrote:
I wonder if people thought the same as you did, I also had poor impulse control but I don't think they realized I was being literal. Also if you told me to not do a action anymore, I wouldn't know you would mean not ever again not today not tomorrow, never. I just thought you would mean that particular time. Even though "anymore" means never again, I didn't even understand what that word meant so I realize when these people kept telling me in 6th grade they didn't want me calling them anymore, they were being literal, I just didn't understand what anymore meant. Instead I thought they meant that particular time or that day so I would quit calling and then would again the next day or later in the day.



My son is just starting to ask for time clarifications now. When he is confused, he will ask us if a rule is for the afternoon, or a day or forever.

Example:

Me: I think you have had enough cheese for today. (Context: It is a half hour before bedtime, and he has had dinner and a lot of cheese as a before bedtime snack. He eats a lot of cheese.)

Him: Forever? For the rest of the week? For tonight?

Me: Just for tonight. You can have more cheese tomorrow.

Him: Why can't I have cheese now?

Me: Because it is almost time for bed, and you have had a lot of cheese today.

Him: OK.

(This happens everyday)



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12 Oct 2015, 12:18 pm

It's funny how autistic kids are literal but yet when you use literal terms such as "today" they still don't understand. That is probably what they also mean by language issues.

I remember the time when I told my ex I wouldn't be talking to him anymore if he keeps joking around and he took it as I won't talk to him at all ever again, not today or tomorrow, never. You would think a literal person would interpret that as "Oh no if I keep joking around, she won't ever talk to me ever again." I could never understand how he took it literal until I learned that "anymore" means not today not tomorrow, never, so I then thought "Then so shouldn't he have thought I wouldn't talk to him ever again if he kept joking around?" I also then realized this family that kept telling me back in 6th grade they didn't want me calling them anymore, they were being literal and all those years I just thought they were not specific enough but it was me not understanding the word anymore. I never knew the literal meaning of it.

Does your son not understand what "today" means?


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12 Oct 2015, 1:25 pm

Quote:
It's funny how autistic kids are literal but yet when you use literal terms such as "today" they still don't understand. That is probably what they also mean by language issues.


My son has the same problem, but with him I think it's a processing issue. I think he hears the part about "no more cheese" and he's too busy thinking about that to catch the "today" part. So I have to repeat it. I basically repeat everything I say to him, sometimes three or four times.



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12 Oct 2015, 1:41 pm

I remember being a little kid and sometimes being fussy about winter coats and jackets. Knitted clothes are scratchy and long sleeves can be restraining. They can have cold metal snaps or tags inside that are unpleasant-feeling to the skin. I remember my mom trying once to get me into a coat that was now a bit too small for me and the sleeves felt like they were pinching my skin. I put up a real fight! I didn't have a problem zipping or buttoning but tying the laces under my hood was a problem as I couldn't even tie my shoelaces until I was around 9. I learned the hard way that being too cold is a lot worse than wearing a winter coat. At least I never caught pneumonia like my mother still seems to think I could just from

I don't know if that helps, but I thought it's easier to understand your daughter when an aspie adult can talk about what it was like and relate to them. :)



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12 Oct 2015, 9:10 pm

I was married to my husband for quiet some time before I realized that when he kept accusing me of "you left the door open," he didn't mean that I literally left it gaping wide open. He meant I didn't lock it. I kept on trying to figure out how I could have possibly left the house and not thought to close the door. Even 25+ years later, sometimes he will tell me to close the door and I won't know what he is talking about because it looks closed to me.

My son is the most literal person I have ever met. One time I said to him "Are you going to answer me, or are you just going to sit there?" His answer? "I am just going to sit here." LOL! Or his teacher would say "how many times do I need to tell you to stay in your seat?" Him "Maybe two or three more." It's simultaneously funny and heartbreaking


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