I need help with my son

Post Reply New Topic

Brink it would SCAR HIM DEEPLY

When the cops showed up he was scared to death

Okay, then please disregard what I said - you know better than anyone else what is right for your son. Please, please stay safe!

You are probably on the right track, and I in no way presume to know your child better than you. The red flags I see are the intensity of the reactions, the aggression, and the two week cycles you mentioned. Not every child with Bipolar disorder has sleep problems (usually, but not always). Here is a case study about a child with Aspergers, Bipolar and some OCD traits. It might be worth a read. It is interesting, even if ends up not being totally applicable to your child.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article ... urnalID=13

Eureka? NONE of that sounds like anything my son is or is going thru.

Hes extremely consistent, especially at school.

The "monkey week" episodes stopped at age 6

None of Abrahams story rings a bell

I am glad to hear that, sorry I missed the mark.

Ok, I'll go back and read through the thread again in more detail, but here's my first impressions:

Your son is 16-years-old and autistic. He's verbal and in school and plays all kinds of video games, so I'm guessing he's not Low Functioning Autistic. Personally speaking, I'm Aspie, high IQ, high functioning etc., and don't really know people who are more 'autistic', but what you said about his behaviour, which seems very petulant and childish, even like a toddler tantrum, makes me wonder what's his 'mental age' in terms of... small children don't necessarily have a good grasp of right and wrong, there's the 'legalistic' issue of 'capacity' in that over here in England, a child of say, 10, would likely be held legally accountable for a crime if they committed any, not sure what the equivalent chronological age of capacity is in the US, but here if a child was 12-years-old chronologically, but had a 'mental age' of 6, then you'd need to treat them as a six-year-old in terms of their understanding of right and wrong and the consequences of their actions and responsibility and so on.

I briefly scanned the thread, but as I said, the very childish behaviour makes me wonder what his 'mental age' is, in order to better understand and suggest what might reasonably be expected of him. Would he be classed as having 'learning difficulties' or being 'Educationally Sub Normal' as it's known over here? Not sure what the equivalent terms are in the US.

Although the chronological v mental age might be a bit of a red herring, because the descriptions strike me as behavioural problems, rather than a 16-year-old acting like an eight-year-old because that's his appropriate 'mental age'.

And another thing that makes me think that might be the case is that you've admitted that you have your own issues, and perhaps haven't been the best mom, and that's very honest and brave of you.

And that's also a good thing, because a lot of what you've said and asked about (if I can paraphrase you) has been about how can you 'fix' him, how can you make him behave. You've tried medicating him. (Personally, I think it's appalling and disgraceful how neuro-pharmaceutical medication is handed out like candy in the US to children! But the way your healthcare system operates to the benefit of the insurers and the pharmaceutical companies is a whole other issue and perhaps it's best not to open up that can of worms here, what's done is done, he's now off the meds.) Basically, you're wondering how *you* can modify *his* behaviour, which you see as being at fault...

But perhaps it's not that straightforward, because going back to your bravery and honesty about admitting your own issues and poor parenting, you've inadvertently touched on the most crucial issue, the solution to the problem isn't just a matter of sorting out what he does or doesn't do, but also what you do or don't do.

There's a brilliant programme that originated in the UK called Supernanny, and there's also a US version. And it's quite an eye-opener, because a lot of people think that disciplining children and making them behave appropriately is about violence - smacking children, and punishing them in other ways, to teach them the error of their ways. The Supernanny programme is brilliant because it proves the opposite. There's no need to hit a child. There's no need for brutal punishments - although there's sometimes a place for minor punishments, 'sitting on the naughty step/sitting in the naughty corner' but more likely withdrawal of privileges. [I'll come back to the issue of privileges later.]

Basically the premise of the Supernanny programme is that parents contact the programme makers and say "Help! My children are atrociously badly behaved, they won't stop being naughty, how can we make them behave?"

And the programme always starts with some examples of the children's bad behaviour - hitting siblings or parents, yelling, shouting, screaming, throwing tantrums, throwing things and damaging and destroying things. And you watch it and you think Wow! Demon child! They should make a horror movie about possessed children featuring this family!

But then Supernanny steps in and starts to teach the parents parenting techniques - y'know, if you buy a washing machine or a car or a DVD player/recorder, they come with a manual with operating instructions. But children don't. And they are waaaaaaay more complex and every one is unique... but Supernanny starts explaining to the parents how they can start to modify their children's behaviour. And funnily enough, that process usually starts with the parents modifying their own. Like if a child yells and screams in people's faces, you'll often see a clip of a parent yelling and screaming at the child to Do this!/Stop doing that! And when the parents start to see things on screen like that, they see it from another person's point of view and realise it's not just about their children's behaviour, it's not just the children who are at fault, but their children are, in fact, responding to and mirroring their parents' behaviour!

Which brings us back to privileges. It sounds as though you're very conscious that your having a bad time has impacted on your children and it means they've had a bad time. So you're overcompensating. Spending silly amounts of money on 'unearned' treats or bribes designed to placate your son into behaving in an acceptable manner. Newsflash: *You can't buy your child's happiness with video games.* Children need love, and they need consistency. Which is another thing you're not providing, because by over-compensating and indulging your child's bad behaviour sometimes (if he throws a tantrum and demands something, you sometimes cave in, because you feel guilty, and also because you want an easy life) and at other times you're being harsh and trying to reprimand and discipline him when he has a similar tantrum. Btw, that wasn't intended as a criticism, saying you sometimes cave in because you want an easy life, I don't think any other parent would blame you, it's a tough job even if you have a supportive partner who pulls their weight when it comes to child rearing, but if you don't and if you're a single mom, then blimey, I can understand sometimes you might feel, Sheesh! Shut up pestering! I give in already! I'll get you that game, just give me some peace and quiet!

Supernanny's approach is to introduce routine, discipline by way of setting boundaries, communication, consistency, and rewards rather than punishments - she often suggests a 'star chart' where children have to earn so many stars or stickers for being good and helping out with chores (or getting ready for school on time and catching the bus!), and then when they have earned so many stars/stickers, *then* they get a reward like a game or a book or a trip to the zoo or something. But I guess in your case, she might have suggested stopping buying gifts all the time, because if you do that, they won't be appreciated. If you buy loads of games throughout the year, how can you make him feel special on his birthday or Thanksgiving?

Basically, you need to decide what your minimum requirements are in terms of acceptable behaviour, set those boundaries and communicate those boundaries, tell the child what your expectations are, and what will be the consequences if they meet or fail to meet those expectations, i.e. if you get ready and catch the bus to/from school every day for a week/two weeks, and we'll keep track using a star chart, then every time you get 5*/10* I'll buy you a video game. If you throw a tantrum and miss the bus, then you forfeit your treat that week/fortnight, and you start again the next week. It doesn't have to be stars, if he likes video games, you could design something that looks like the 'high scorer' chart in a game and get him to win points and go up to the next level.

But then the consistency comes into play. Because you have to stick to what you say. You have to teach your child that when you say something you mean it and it doesn't matter how many tantrums they throw, if he missed the school bus, he doesn't get a game that week. That way, it also becomes easier on both of you, because you both know where you stand, so there's no ambiguity, no confusion, no room room for negotiation, no chance of him throwing a tantrum making you change your mind. Consistency is key. And communication. And positive reinforcement and rewards.

I think she might have done some programmes with autistic children, but a lot of the techniques are applicable to all children, autistic or not.

One problem is that a lot of the children are younger, so some of the issues might not seem so relevant, but I think many of the underlying issues are applicable, in terms of setting boundaries, communicating those boundaries and also rewarding/punishing (without having a screaming and shouting match). Like issues relating to bedtime, in the programme younger children will have an early bedtime, but they often refuse or carry out attention seeking behaviours to avoid bedtimes, you might have similar issues, but bedtime will be later and instead of taking away a favourite toy, you could perhaps withhold internet privileges. And you might expect a 16-year-old to help with more grown up chores around the house than a small child, who you might ask to simply tidy their room, tidy their toys in the sitting room/family room, whereas a 16-year-old, you'd of course expect them to clean their room (they wouldn't want you to invade their privacy and tidy it for them, would they?) but also helping with laundry and cooking and gardening. (Tell him girls love men who can cook them a nice meal, so it's in his best interests to be able to do so!)

Anyway, the principles are there, although many of the programmes feature younger children. I'm sure they can be found online somewhere. And apparently she appears on the Rachael Ray show every week.

http://www.supernanny.co.uk/

English Lulu,

YES his behaviour IS very childish, however he plays with age appropriate things.
His dad was also very childish.

If I didnt step in and help him with the door hed have broke it! He kept locking it and trying to pull it open, then unlocking it and trying to pull it open, and it was not working and he was getting more and more frustrated.

I do ground him if he misbehaves (I take away privileges, make him sit in his room , etc) but its too late for the Naughty Step! LOL
We get SuperNanny here in the USA, btw

What I hate is when his current (and soon to be EX) Psychiatrist tells me, "Oh thats just the AUTISM!"

And then I talk to other parents of similar kids and they say they went thru it with their kids...

Violence and outbursts are not appropriate behavior

BTW im not trying to change him to something hes not.

Ive never tried to change him, like is stimming or things

But HITTING an breaking things is NOT just INAPPROPRIATE but CRIMINAL at times and can get him thrown in jail

Am I right?

I've mostly stayed out of this one, because my son is 11, and I can't even imagine what dealing with a 16-year-old boy with AS is like (though I suppose I will in due time.)

My $.02: We struggled with violence for years. I've written several threads about it here, both what it was like and asking for help, and what we did about it.

However, one of the things we learned that seems pertinent: my son he was totally unable to identify any of his own emotional states unless they were "turned up to 11." This is not uncommon in autism, it's called alexithymia, and the result of it in our house was that my son would ignore (and "save up") every tiny little annoyance and irritation until, finally, the "straw that broke the camel's back" would appear and he would melt down, no matter how insignificant the last straw was. This sounds to me like what might be happening here.

It took a LOT of time and work to explain to my son how to identify feelings - we mostly had to do that by pointing out physical symptoms (he would ball up his fists just before a meltdown, and he later identified himself that before the fists balled up - which was usually somewhere uncomfortably close to the point of no return - his lips would get tight.) We then had to teach him to take those symptoms as warning signs and that he needed to isolate himself immediately (which was his calming technique.) It's just another thing my son had to learn cognitively that NTs do intuitively.

If you're finding a new psychologist, apparently (according to the linked wikipedia article) there is a screener for alexithymia.

MomSparky?

Thank You!

This is the first time I feel like I may have hope!! !

The reason Im switching Psychs is cause LOOK,

Ill make an appointment for 9:30am, I always show up to ALL appts 15 mins early.
So ill show up at 9:15am, we will sit there tick tock..tick tock

9:30
10:00
10:30
11:00
11:30
12:00

AND FINALLY here she comes in the door with wet hair!

This has happened 6 times!

Plus she never told me that she wasnt here to be his therapist, well, isnt that hat a Psychiatrist is?
A therapist who can script drugs?

GAH!

All these years I was told that had to stay with her cause I was assigned to her by his case worker. But it wasnt true! I talked to his insurance and they said I could choose!
So i moved him immediately!

Im just so upset now, Old Psych needed to go back to school if she couldnt ID his problem and HELP US!

You're welcome - good luck!

PS. Psychiatrists are medical doctors who can prescribe medicine: they often stick to that, rather than therapy (though yours doesn't sound like a prize.) Psychologists tend to focus on therapy as treatment. Developmental psychologists tend to have a better understanding of autism.

Also, though it makes me feel uncomfortable to keep bringing up something I put together, I made this Parenting Index, a not-very-in-depth listing of posts here by subject, there's a section on violence: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt166142.html

I don't know why I bothered. (Well, I do, because another mother previously thanked me for offering insight in a different thread, so I felt I'd made a useful constribution.)

I spent aaages typing up a response to your problem, (quite painstakingly as the space-bar on my keyboard is broken), trying to be constructive and encouraging, and making suggestions... and yet, seemingly, because I'm not agreeing with you and reinforcing your own opinion, you pretty much say: "Yeah, whatever."

Another mom reinforces your own opinion, and you're super grateful.

Y'know what? Think about where your approach to date has gotten you. It's gotten you into this mess.

You fail to set boundaries and communicate them and be consistent in enforcing them.

You spoil your child and overindulge him - and in effect encourage his spoilt child tantrums, because he knows he can manipulate you, because you're a bad parent in that respect.

Maybe if I'd just suggested you dope your child and give him more drugs, maybe shower him with more video games, you might have appreciated the time and trouble I'd taken a bit more.

Like I said before, it's not just your child's behaviour that needs to change, it's also yours, but you seem to just be here expecting people to agree with you and reinforce your apparent idea that your son is a hopeless case and you're rightly at your wits end because *he's* the problem... yeah, some folk might agree with you and suggest that what you need is more/different doctors and more/different diagnoses and maybe more/different drugs.

But the bottom line is none of that will make a jot of difference unless *you* change, unless *you* change the way you parent your son.

EnglishLulu - I am guessing that many, many parents here have watched SuperNanny and some (like me) have tried her techniques. With a kid on the spectrum, they are only a place to start. Television makes things look much simpler than they actually are. I don't think anyone intended to sound dismissive, but we parents of special needs kids are often told to implement routines, consequences, and consistency, to the point that sometimes we can't hear it any more.

My son didn't want to misbehave, in fact, he hated himself for it (which broke my heart even more.) Nobody was more relieved than he was when we figured out what was going on and how to help him. Routine and consistency are important, on this I agree - however, figuring out each child's unique needs is critical. It wasn't until my son was assessed by professionals who knew what they were doing that we started to make headway. We did lots and lots of different things (while still sticking with routine and being as consistent as was humanly possible) until we found a system that works for us and for him.

I've read a lot of posts here from successful parents. They spend their time doing detective work and figuring out the WHY, and then figuring out what to do about it. We know we need to change our parenting, we are perfectly willing to do so - but there is so much conflicting information out there that it's difficult to figure out what to do. Truthfully, with my son it wasn't one thing, but a series of things that made him unable to control himself. I have several years of experience to show that no amount of consequences or routine on their own would have changed that; first he needed intervention so he had the tools to be able to change his behavior.

Can't you just find another home for the dog?

My daughter has some similar problems. I mentioned it on here before, but one thing I did was set up a "safe place" for when things became violent in our house. She or I have to leave the house. The first time I did it I called a friend (I was thinking of calling the police), who knows us both...and how luckily has some experience working with autistic children. As soon as a third person came into the equation, the violence stopped. My daughter is very bad at boundaries...it's something that even at 14, she doesn't understand. So the boundaries have to be set up and reenforced. Anyway, my friend came and took my daughter away for the night. My daughter called me the next morning to let me know she was ok. Its the same with her...these huge meltdowns really happen about twice a year, but our whole lives come to a grinding halt when they do. We had a pretty bad one last night, which is why I'm here today.

But...with the addition of the "safe place", the violence has stopped. There is still intense arguing, but she no longer becomes violent. I explain it to her that it's my job to keep us both safe, even when she forgets to.

Also, I never try reasoning during a meltdown. Always wait...she can't reason and meltdown at the same time. But if you talk in a calm way after (sometimes a few days after...sometimes I use humor to bring her out if she's reluctant to address something). Last night I did mention that things had been bad every since the semester changed (all her classes changed, and i know that's hard for her), and after i mentioned that she stopped, did some counting on her fingers, looked at me and just apologized. I want to ask her what happened in that moment because she went from total yelling/swearing, etc....to I'm sorry. I think maybe she had a breakthrough about her problems being related to the transition, but I didn't ask then. I decided I'd wait for a day or two before we address what happened.

Counseling never helped her...her two therapist always said she said way more to me than she ever did to them....and she does talk a lot to me. At times I've needed "counseling" to deal with the stress of being a single mom to a daughter on the spectrum. Usually I can count on friends for that but a few times I've sought professional help. I sometimes wonder about medication for anxiety, which she has a lot of...but have always worried about the side effects. She's been on adderol since the 6th grade for attention problems, and unless things were to really be bad, I don't think I'd add anything else.

My daughter had problems with our dog. And I do believe it's related to his attachment to me. I got him for her, and he is attached to her...he's a great dog for her because he's mild mannered and her sudden movements and occasional verbal outbursts aren't that big a deal to him. When she's nice to him he adores her. But she also gets angry with him. We did have to institute a "no hitting the dog" policy in our house. And we had to discuss it a lot. My duaghter isn't in general mean to animals, but when she gets angry, her anger is more important to her than relationships. It's a work in progress....and she no longer physically hits anyone, but it's still.....a work in progress.