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OliveOilMom
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17 Aug 2012, 8:48 am

Removed to get thread back on track


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I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


cubedemon6073
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17 Aug 2012, 10:02 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
something something something


OliveOilMom, I do not understand parts of your reasoning. You say to ask momsparky's son what he wants and go by that. How do you figure that what her son wants is always good for him and other people around him? Let's say he wanted to play in traffic should momsparky grant his request? What is your rationale for your answer? I am not trying to be insulting. I am trying to understand as I may be a father one day in the distant future. What are your underlying assumptions?

I may be a father one day in the future and I really do not understand children that well. Momsparky, what exactly is helicopter parenting and why is this always considered an ignoble thing? I am simply trying to understand. How does one determine what the correct logical formula to parent a child? Is OliveOilmom's parenting correct or is yours correct Momsparky? Are there different types of parenting and are some correct and some incorrect?

Let's say we have the set of all parenting styles that could possibly exist p. In this set are all subsets correct 100% of the time? Do the subsets blur with other subsets? Do the subsets only work part of the time and only in certain situations?

How does one determine the best answers for all of this? To me, it seems like certain things just blur.



cubedemon6073
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17 Aug 2012, 10:25 am

momsparky wrote:
There are two things that are important here: one is that most children do better if sheltered from certain things until they are developmentally ready to handle it: violence and sex in particular. There is a lot of research that indicates that it's better to wait to expose them to certain things than not...what there isn't research on is the degree to which this should be done, and how each individual child will be affected.

Second, there are issues with kids on the spectrum that go beyond explaining things. No two kids are alike. Some kids, like my son, have OCD-like tendencies (he does not have OCD, though) where they can't "un-see" things that are upsetting to them. For him, understanding is not enough - he needs to develop at his own pace, and to be ready for things before they happen. He also has difficulty managing language, despite my very detailed explanations about it.

Case in point - I started out as a parent who didn't want to shield my child from "scary" images and cartoon violence. When DS was very small, Nightmare Before Christmas was one of his favorite movies, because he didn't make the connection between "scary" and the looks of all the creatures - he took their actions at face value. A year or two later, he stopped wanting to watch the movie, and shortly thereafter he banned it from our TV and hasn't watched it since - all by himself, he developed a fear of "scary" images, despite the entire movie being about how things that look scary aren't necessarily so.

This had nothing to do with parenting; I talked a lot about how the characters acted and what they did and how noble they were to take care of each other and fix their mistakes...but at some point, he developed the ability to be scared by imagery and there wasn't anything I did or could do to change it. Forcing him to sit through the movie from that point on was nothing less than torture, and served no purpose at all.

I am very sensitive to accusations of "helicopter parenting" or treating my son with "kid gloves," because it happens to me a lot...except by professionals who know our situation well or friends who know my son well. When you have a kid who appears "normal" by all outside standards, I sure look like a helicopter parent when I have to run interference for him so he isn't put in situations where he feels he can't refuse to do things he doesn't want to do, or situations where he's exposed to things he can't handle. I especially love the situations where - for the identical action, by the same person - I'm called a helicopter parent in one breath, and too lenient in the next because my son is falling apart: happens to me all the time.

So, basically - please ease up on the judgement. I am doing the best I can; the consequences of mistakes for me on this particular issue can be very serious, and we are very carefully feeling our way around. While I did say that I wish other parents would follow MSRB ratings, that's because their choices wind up affecting me and my kid. I'm not judging you or your choices as a parent, obviously your kids turned out fine.


Momsparky, I would want to understand your son's logical reasoning. I would ask him "what is it about their looks that scare you so much?" I would ask him "Why do you equate the looks of these creatures as something to be afraid of?" I would ask, "do you believe that all creatures or other things that look a certain way and look harmful are actually harmful?" I would ask "why or why not?" I would ask him "do you believe that the looks of something always determine what this something is?" Why or why not? I would finally ask him is it always possible for something that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck to always be a duck?" I would ask your DS "Why couldn't it be a decoy that was well crafted and well made?"



DW_a_mom
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17 Aug 2012, 11:28 am

Ugh, this dang computer just deleted my very long post. I could scream!! !

Deep breath.

I shelter my kids. One is AS, but the other is NT, and I am no different with the NT one than the AS one. But one thing I need to be clear on: I did not make this choice because I'm some overly conservative parent. I did it because it was clear to me from the cues coming from my kids that a little sheltering was what they needed and wanted in order to thrive. Each child is different, and this is how mine are. They need what they need, and my job is to provide that best I can.

It is not a life-long sentence. Kids also have their ways of letting you know when they need to get out of the happy little box and understand more. As parents, we live with these kids, we know them from birth; we can see enough to feel our way through these decisions.

OliveOilMom, I understand your concern on the previous page that parents are making a choice to shelter simply because of the AS label, and because of that concern it felt to me like you wanted to sell your approach pretty hard. I think I can mitigate that concern because I know lots of families with all sorts of different positions on this issue but not once I have seen the position affected by a label. I know no one who thinks, "my child is AS, therefore he can't handle violence." I do know people who think, "violence is never appropriate for a young child" and people who think "I've been watching my child and I don't think he should be exposed to violence." Both of those are very different from anyone deciding to shelter a child simply because he is AS. It may sound on this board that people are reaching that conclusion because they have an AS child, but the only reason it does is because we spend all our time talking about the AS child, and there is no frame of reference for knowing what these parents would do if the child was NT. I promise, I use exactly the same standards for my NT child as I do for my AS one when it comes to decisions on what to expose my kids to, and I am confident that other parents do, as well.

I am sorry to see how things got testy on this page of the thread, and I think that everyone has to remember we all get sensitive when it feels like someone is attacking our decisions as a parent. Sometimes even when someone words a post carefully, you can just feel it through the words that they think you made the wrong decision, and that is hard to take. Sometimes we do have those feelings in a discussion, that another parent is just wrong, and getting our point across in that situation takes a lot of care and caution. No one can expect it to go right all the time.

I've read a lot here that is interesting discussion, revealing multiple sides to a coin, and proving that lots of different parenting styles can all get to the same result: happy and successful young adults. There is no single right answer in parenting, we can never forget that.


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whirlingmind
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20 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm asking a serious question because I don't understand. I know parents who don't let their kids watch/play/listen to certain things because of ratings or content and I never ask them, so I'm asking you instead.

Why does rating or content matter? As long as it's not something like porn or something that the child is already afraid of, why make a big deal about it? I ask this because I've always let my kids watch, play and listen to whatever they wanted, and we have never had a problem with it. It may be different with special needs kids, but the parents I know who won't let their kids watch or play certain things have NT kids, as I do.

As for video games, I can't help you on that. Mine play them and they have all kinds of them, but I don't know whats what.


From what I've heard, NT kids may (and I emphasise may) be more able to handle the violence and scary things, although I have my own views on whether they should be allowed to. AS Children are far more likely to be terrified of things, get phobias, worry and obsess, so it's really not a good idea to let them watch things that are for above their age range. Parents would hopefully know their own child well enough to know when is the right time for them to be introduced to certain subject matters and that is likely to be older for AS children than it would be for their NT peers.


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Eureka-C
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20 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm asking a serious question because I don't understand. I know parents who don't let their kids watch/play/listen to certain things because of ratings or content and I never ask them, so I'm asking you instead.

Why does rating or content matter? As long as it's not something like porn or something that the child is already afraid of, why make a big deal about it? I ask this because I've always let my kids watch, play and listen to whatever they wanted, and we have never had a problem with it. It may be different with special needs kids, but the parents I know who won't let their kids watch or play certain things have NT kids, as I do.

As for video games, I can't help you on that. Mine play them and they have all kinds of them, but I don't know whats what.


From what I've heard, NT kids may (and I emphasise may) be more able to handle the violence and scary things, although I have my own views on whether they should be allowed to. AS Children are far more likely to be terrified of things, get phobias, worry and obsess, so it's really not a good idea to let them watch things that are for above their age range. Parents would hopefully know their own child well enough to know when is the right time for them to be introduced to certain subject matters and that is likely to be older for AS children than it would be for their NT peers.


OliveOilMom: That's a very interesting question: I have thought about it seriously from a lot of different viewpoints and still my personal conclusion for my children has mostly to do with what is acceptable in my family, the people I am around, and my own comfort levels.

Psychology has done much research on the effects of violence exposure to children's behavior. It began with this classic experiment Look up "Bobo doll" experiment on youtube in the 1970's I believe.

Yet, controlling what people read/see/hear has been around for centuries. But that is a side issue as we are talking about children. Children were not seen as much more than miniature adults who had not yet learned until some psychologists - Watson, Skinner, and most importantly Erik Erickson, began to realize that children think differently than adults. Therefore, it is concluded from there that they may not be able to process some things like violence/sex/conflicting ideas/points of view/abstract problems etc. as adults do and may develop anxiety/fear/or a lack of emotion to excess exposure to such things.

Added in are the moralistic ideals as presented by various churches and held in high esteem by many people. I personally cannot argue away someone else's morals. That goes against my own morals.

So personally, I decided what I allow my children to watch based on basically three things: 1) Is it causing intense emotions that I fear may cause long term harm? 2) Does my child understand the entertainment part vs reality part (with conversation) 3) Is it so offensive that it is disgusts/disturbs me?

In the end, I am not sure that I have made the right decisions. I do let my children watch a lot of things their friends are not allowed to watch, and at the same time, I don't let them watch some things. Sometimes, if I look at it closely there is not a real logical answer. For example, I was okay with my daughter reading the Twighlight series, but would not let her watch HBO's Game of Thrones. I will let my son play Left For Dead, but don't like for him to play Grand Theft Auto. My kids watch Family Guy, but not Southpark. When I caught my daughter and son watching Jeepers Creepers 2 at age 4 and 5, I made them watch something else, but then we watched it the other day now that they are 11 and 12, and they thought it was silly. Part of my concern is my own awkwardness when I was a teen. My mom did not shelter me really, but at the same time, she did not like the violent stuff, so we never watched it. On the other hand, I saw movies with sex scenes that other kids were not allowed to watch. Anyway, I didn't know what kids were talking about and didn't get jokes in reference to popular entertainment. It made me stand out. I was also terrified to cuss, and looked odd to other kids.

This is a really tough question, and I think there are no easy answers. In the end, we are all trying to do what is best for our children.