"Could Your Child Homeschool If S/he Wanted To?"

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But it's not fidgeting, that's my point. It is only school that thinks it is.

It is natural harmonious exercise which happens at same time as thinking. Western society separates the two things up.

Whereas my son, as a result of not going to school, still does them both together, and therefore doesn't need artificial imposed exercise periods . He exercises as he thinks and plays. But schools do not allow this, and so try, and fail, to compensate for this in recreation and other set sports periods etc.

It is no wonder so many in the west are obese and unfit etc. School divides mental activity from physical. It makes exercise something brainless, and "work/study" something bodiless.

Research/studies increasingly show that video games teach social skills.

MMORPGs especially, World of Warcraft for instance, with their avatar systems, the extensive guild activities, team projects, meets for raids required to advance in the game, etc etc, all involve complex social skills that it has been found that many children and young adults will pick up more easily in game because less tense, less hostile, and because are not judged on appearance, skills which are then able to use in the "real" world.

Apparently the fact that, online, children can end up running ( organising, timetabling, motivating, planning steps to achieve goals, etc) teams in which there are adults of all ages and backgrounds is very motivating for many , and accounts for the many children's involvement in these games, in which they are respected on the basis of their skills, not judged on age or appearance. And these social skills transfer to real life.

Large corporations are now taking into account experience in-game of leading teams, of guild membership, of co-operative team behaviour, as evidenced by successes in quests etc. It counts as management experience.

Do not underestimate the increasing significance and importance in the world of "video games".

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Mar 2008, 2:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

I don't, and there is a good chance my son will end up working in that field, inventing the games.

HOWEVER, screen time is screen time, and I know from my own experiences with it that unlimited amounts are NOT healthy. People are not designed to interact with each other through computers. Social computer interaction can be positive, particularly for those not capable of interacting in any other way, don't get me wrong (given that I became hearing impaired a few years ago, for example, forums help me fill my need for in-depth intelligent conversation that I am no longer capable of conducting one on one). But it removes us from the world, instead of engaging us in it, and it doesn't feed the heart and soul in the same way moving about in the world of air and tangible construction does. Watching my son, it clearly applies to Aspies as well as NT's: you can't live life on a keyboard. It is no substitute.

Please - natural harmonious excercise

About western schools: my son's school is really ok. But he DID love having his own teacher who did "frisbee maths", took him canoeing, catching fish he skinned and cooked (biology lessons), which originally was part of our homeschooling venture. Now the teacher in question is at his real school, still doing frisbee maths. I'm saying nothing is black and white, some schools are OK.

Which people? Quite a lot of people would disagree with you. Who says so? This is a huge value judgement about what "the world" consists of, and a massive assumption about what being engaged in it means. Yours maybe. But mine? ... I have been coming alive since we got the internet two years ago.Not a substitute, no, it is now an essential and increasingly large part of it. And shows no sign of decreasing. In fact anyone who can manage hours of internet at a stretch is going to be at an advantage ( already is, if they know what they're doing on it ) . Something to be allowed full expression, so that can learn as many of the skills involved as well and as early as possible.

Parents putting limits on their childrens "screen time" may be limiting their learning process and adaptation to the 21st century. Children, for genetic survival reasons, tend to know what the most important things are to learn out of the world that surrounds them, if left to themselves.

I am actually wondering whether in fact playing games on the internet all day might teach you more than being at school. I think that there is a serious chance that this may be true.

Self reliance, confidence, persistence, navigation, statistics, pattern recognition, interpretation of signs/signals, team work, etc etc, depending on the games, and heaps more besides.

If I didn't think this to some extent then I would have to think that my son's desire to play most of the day on the internet was addiction, or laziness, self-indulgence, avoidance or escapism, or an unhealthy "obsession", a problem. Something to fight, to restrict, to control.

Reading fiction, reading anything other than religious treatises and such like, was once considered worse than frivolous, risky for a child's moral and intellectual development.

Last edited by ouinon on 28 Mar 2008, 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Don't kid yourself!

I'm hearing the rhetoric, but remember, Ouinon, these decisions are important for your son's future.
I don't know what's going on in your world, and I hope you're OK. I don't wish to offend you, but I can't help myself... sorry.

My mother-in-law has very cemented opinions: toothbrushing is overrated and a convention - 20 years of this and her teeth fell out. Bathing likewise - she got so smelly (one whole year without a bath when the public bathhouse closed - in protest! Actually her 13-year-old son forced her to get a shower in the end as he said he would move otherwise.)
Butter is healthy - she is very overweight. .
All germs are good for the immune system: she leaves meat on the pan and eats it 3 days afterwards. Sometimes I'm surprised she's alive She drinks really strong coffee afterwards as she thinks it ills the germs.

I cannot tell her how to live, but in many ways the hippie childhood she gave my husband was VERY tough. Materially, but also because he was very much excluded from the local society the family moved too. (Of course it had it's wonderfull sides, too.)

She, BTW, is not mentally ill but probably an aspie.

It is not an easy way to live. If you are choosing for yourself - fine. If you are choosing for a child, think really really hard, deep and with honesty.

I can't say I didn't expect you to get all over that last post of mine, ouinon. But, yes, I truly believe that there has to be some limit on screen time. That will probably vary by person, for many the good far outbalances the bad, and from your description I would say it has been overall healthy for you, BUT ...

I have found time on the computer to be addicting in an unhealthy manner, in a way that nothing else in my life is. It draws me to it when I would actually RATHER do something else. It draws me to it when I am supposed to be cleaning house, completing a work assignment, and more. It draws me to it when I have told myself a zillion times over that I am not opening it today.

My sister will stay up all night playing her Everquest.

Marriages have been ruined by obsessions with computer games that can't be stopped when the kids need to go to bed, the dishes need to be done, or sleep needs to be had.

The internet carries the same addictive qualities that gambling, drinking and drugs do. Some are immune to that effect; many are not.

Anything that has that potential, for ANYONE, must be consumed in moderation.

The internet is a very valuable tool. But one must always be aware: when has the tool become the master, instead of the other way around?

Our kids cannot watch this for themselves, so we have to.

Don't worry, I'm fine. It is precisely because I do remember that "these decisions are important for my son's future" that I have thought so long and hard about them.

Some of them have been in direct contradiction with my own deepest prejudices and assumptions, the result of long/heated discussions with my son, ( trying to listen to him, and respect/accept/understand what his experience is), and reading, and meeting other homeschoolers. As time has passed with increasingly good results, I have gained in confidence.

And got more used to challenging my favoured ideas because something my son does or says doesn't match/fit. Like with video games/internet ; I used to be terrified at how much he wanted to do it. It's taken me a lot of thought and effort to allow him to use it so freely.

Last edited by ouinon on 28 Mar 2008, 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Would this worry you if it was a painting she was "obsessively" scraping away at? Or a novel that she was rewriting for the fourth time? Or if she was a keen chess player with a play-partner only available evenings/nights? Or if it was to earn money in a second job to support a family? My point is that your attitude to its use depends on what you think it is for and what value it has and whether it is a good thing .
Marriages have been ruined by many things. Passionate hobbies, one partner falling in love with someone else, and simple low-tech selfishness, aswell as escapist addictions.

It is important to distinguish between chemical/physical, and psychological addictions. If you are chemically addicted to something, there's no use limiting its use, or talking about "consuming it in moderation", you have to cut it out completely.

If someone has the tendency to addictive behaviour, psychological addiction, they'll express it with almost anything, in fact the more they are told that something is bad for them, the more powerful its addictive pull will be. If you can think of it as good, ( eg: video games are "the future" ),or indifferent/neutral, you'll be less likely to enter into the addiction dynamic with it.

The widespread ( and incorrect) image of video games as being divorced from reality is also going to add to the appeal. In fact they are quite strikingly grounded in the offline, with stunningly vivid examples of "real world" dynamics at every corner. From how the economics works, to the difficulties of getting a team to all turn up at the same time.

Still on the subject of homeschooling and the importance/value of internet/video game/MMORPG activity as a massive training/learning arena not to be confused with addiction ........Sinsboldly posted a super article in the "Media Representation etc of AS" forum, at:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt61150.html

about how Second Life and similar online worlds can function as useful training grounds for people having trouble with social skills offline, specifically for people with Autism/Aspergers.

Which reminded me of Nick Yee, and his site "The Daedalus Project/Gateway", at:

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus

and other articles/info at:

http://www.nickyee.com

Happy reading. It's a great site.

Painting will never draw you to it even when you would actually prefer to do something else. I am a painter. I know the difference.

I can actually get "addicted" to a book, as well, but because it is a physical object, that addiction is very easy to manage. I only buy or borrow a new book when I have time to read it non-stop. The problem with the internet is that because it bears some real life necessities, it is ever present in our lives, always becconing.

Don't discount the addictive nature of the internet. There is a huge difference between following an intense interest, that gives you joy and satisfication, v. finding yourself drawn to something at times you feel it is actually destructive, but go to it anyway.

TV can be the same way, just something people find themselves "doing."

You MUST pay attention to how and when "screen time" is being used. It is not an issue for everyone, but it is a VERY REAL issue. DO NOT continue to swipe it away as being similar to any other Aspie obsession: sometimes it is, but often it is NOT. I AM LIVING THIS AT THIS VERY MOMENT. And I KNOW it isn't healthy.

This doesn't have very much to do with whether people's children could homeschool if they wanted to, but it's interesting so ...

Oddly enough I paint too,.. sometimes. Although I agree that my smaller colour pencil drawings do not summon me to them till late at night when I am really shattered, my larger, in fact big abstract panel/wall paintings have done. To the point that I have often found myself unable to stop painting although longing to rest. On many occasions, sometimes till dawn.

And the experience is more painful than any that I have had on the internet. I "had" to carry on. And of these all night sessions only one was a success, and that one I had to paint out because it was on the wall of a rented room.

To return to the thread topic somewhat, it occurred to me that one immensely important reason why many children may be deeply drawn to online games is that they are not "children" there, but equal with others. There they are no longer discriminated against, restrained, on the basis of age.

It must be intoxicating, to find somewhere where you have the same power as adults. Where all that matters is skill, and time/availability.

A way to make online life less thrilling to children might be to give them the same freedoms/liberties/powers as adults.

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Mar 2008, 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

What exactly are you living?



Just because you or someone close to you is experiencing addictive /compulsive behaviour patterns around something is not sufficient reason to condemn or limit that "thing" . Addiction is a symptom/expression of something/a need in the "addicted". Some "things" are more susceptible than others to playing the role of addictive "object", but the addiction is still the "responsibility" of the addicted person.

Except when that person is a child.

That's all I'm saying.

And if I wasn't addicted to this dang internet thing I would be doing something more productive or positive at this moment than posting here! I take full responsibility for it, in me. And only ask that parents recognize that it can happen in their children, and take the steps now that will insure their children understand how to use the tool in moderation and as appropriate, ONLY.